Older man

[NotJustfriends]

Please no one berate me for this, as I already feel bad enough, but looking for advice.
I'm in a long term relationship, and have young children. We're due to marry next year, and on the surface I thought everything was fine, until over the past couple of months, I seem to have fallen for a much older man. We have been messaging, mainly to do with a common interest, and it started completely innocent, but now I have developed feelings for him (and I think this is mutual), I know we must stop talking, but I'm finding it so difficult, and it seems to have made me realise the many flaws in my relationship. There has been alot of passive aggressiveness between my partner and I, and we don't seem to really get on most of the time. I must admit I am often grumpy and have a short fuse with him, which I think boils down to my own frustrations with the lack of sex and passion in our relationship. He's never been very affectionate or complimentary, and it does get me down. I'm not trying to blame him, or excuse myself, but these factors have played a big part in how I feel right now... It obviously feels nice to finally get attention and compliments from someone. What do I do? I was the one who pushed for the wedding, maybe out of desperation to "prove our love", and now I'm getting cold feet and keep thinking about how I'm not actually that happy. He's a good man, works hard, loves me and the kids, Nd on paper gives us a great life, but I genuinely don't think he sees me as anything more than the mother to his children, and cannot separate family life, from me and him as an intimate couple, so it just never happens. I have told him how I feel on numerous occasions and he does admit he doesn't show me enough attention, then he "tries harder" for a few days, but it feels so forced, it's just humiliating, and then it goes back to the same old situation, of me feeling sorry for myself. I've given up waiting for him to "come on" to me, and often try to take the lead, but he's so unreceptive, and dejects me time and time again, so again I'm left feeling like a fool, frustrated and fed up. I feel so torn on what to do. I'm not naïve, I don't think this "other man" is my knight in shining armour, here to whisk me away for a better life, but the thought of potentially one day becoming intimate with him, is the only thing keeping me smiling if I'm honest. It's become like an addiction talking to him, even about the most mundane of things. One of us will throw in an extremely subtle bit of flirtation and my heart is racing. I feel so terrible, and I know how wrong I am for even thinking about another man in this way, as my partner works so hard to provide an idyllic lifestyle for us. Feeling completely overwhelmed and lost right now.

So is this other man interested in an affair? It sounds like you want to be with him but would you be his bit on the side? Have you talked about it?

I also agree with pp that you might be attracted to this man but you don’t know what sex would be like with him. It’s all just a fantasy.

@Badhabits1

Who cares about her sex life, what about his wife's sex life, because when this wife finds out, this middle aged wife who has been there probably for over 30 years, her sex life will end.

How easy will it be for her to get over a betrayal like this, even if she wanted to.
Yes maybe she's aging, gravity's is doing it's work, she may have childbirth battle scars and stretch marks, or even illness scars. Twenty years older than op, I can tell you her confidence will be blasted out of the park.

How on earth could she ever feel desirable again but lets support op in her quest for the perfect sex life at the expense of a woman who probably never harmed anyone in her life.

It wouldn't be an understatement to say if she finds out, you will have ruined her life even if it doesn't get to the stage of being sexual, the emotional talk is enough.

All this shouldn't even need mentioning.

@Onthedunes

What a cruel woman you are.

The reality of the situation is that the OM's wife is probably going through meonopause, her husband is at mid life crises stage, one last kick and all that.

You state the reasons why you feel unloved and unapreciated in your marriage but can't seem to see what will be happening to her.

This man is old enough to be your dad and she old enough to be your mother. Whilst she should be enjoying her later years in security with peace of mind doing things like looking after grandchildren, she probably has a neglectful, moody, gult ridden arsehole of a husband who is making her feel like the least desirable woman on the planet.

She may not know you and what you are up to yet but mark my words she will have noticed a shift in her husbands affections and time.

What you say you are suffering with your partner pales into insignificance when you are twenty years older and find out that your husband has been sweet talking to a girl young enough to be his niece.

But hey he makes you feel special, attractive, interesting and beautiful.

You are unbelievably selfish and lacking in empathy and maturity.

Would you like this to happen to your own mother?

I guess not, but when you have others telling you to forgive yourself and "Be kind' you will carry on with the destruction of another womans life.

By the way this absolves him of nothing.

The two acts are quite separate to me, he is a cunt for having an affair and you are unethical for hurting another human being who at this present moment has not got the advantages that you have, namely time and youth.

Dreadful behaviour, I could have never done that to another woman let alone an older woman, not my style.

What a selfish woman you are. `

Yes OP you need to really think about this You obviously are not at the age where you know what it’s like to be discarded because your no longer young and considered ‘ desirable ‘. One day you’ll be there too and there’s and believe me , having been a woman who’s been ina marriage where I was made to feel the way you are feeling when I was younger and now being in my 50s and dealing with menopause and the way society , men and women like yourself dismiss women of this age , it’s a hell of a lot harder being here . Why would you want a man who’d throw away a woman because she’s gotten older simply because someone with shiny new packaging has come along

Quite a lot of projecting here. We don't know anything at all about the man's wife. She might have had multiple affairs herself! I don't think we can make assumptions about all 50 year old women (I'm that age, btw).

I do think this man is fantasy land, though, and that the OP should be very wary of going any further.

@PeterIsACockwomble

Projection doesn't come into it, it's called empathy and common sense, how on earth would a woman in her mid fifties be happy at the thought of a younger woman contemplating using her husband for sex.

This plays into the competative reasoning for women being called bitter and twisted, when in reality it is unfair and a really unpleasant thing to do.

I shoudn't have to state how I look or any women in their fifties look, to explain that we are not projecting and how it is just a universally crap thing to do to another.

Most women in their thirties would be fuming if a woman of their own age had an affair with their own father, leaving their own mother reeling.

It is something that should be able to be spoken about, yet women are hurded into this shame field of not being able to state the real facts between age and youth.

Even younger women shame older ladies in the same way men do, yes we have to have maturity and understanding but it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, even seeing it done to someone else.

So op whilst you are contemplating whether or not you can get away with with sex on the side or just speaking with this man every day, you hold his wife's future mental health in your hands.

Do you have to intrude in someone elses marriage, couldn't you just find someone single and not hurt another human being.

@Onthedunes
Perfectly said
Nothing to do with projecting . It’s a fact that men routinely leave older wives for a younger woman, very often , simply because they are younger !
It’s a fact that society as a whole and many many men still in the year 2021 value women predominately for youth and appearance and see older women as worth less in terms of their sexual or partner value . This is still a fact when men are NOT hoping to start families ( just before someone throws in the old ‘ men just want fertile women )
It’s a fact that it feels really fucked to spend your life with someone only to have them up and leave for a woman who’s younger just because that’s what’s valued in women and you are no longer young !
And yes women should start speaking about this discarding and disposal of women and how we are devalued with age
Nothing to do with projection . It’s called standing up and expecting women to be treated as equal humans by men and that begins by treating each other that way !

In other words you are tempted to cheat. Your present relationship is dead in the water. Whats the point of getting married if you are already disatisfied when you're not even married yet. All this over-thinking about sex is a bit strange IMHO.

[quote NotJustfriends]@onthedunes I wish I could take your advice, but as I said, I feel addicted to talking to him, and it seems impossible at the moment to even go a day not talking to him. Sounds so pathetic I know. I know taking a step back would stop this, but I guess that's the problem, I'm not ready to.[/quote]
I wouldn't worry Hun. He'll drop you anyway when his wife finds out

My mum was discarded by my dad in their 60s, he upgraded to a “better” package - A young wife same age as me, and a newborn DS. My dad’s reason was my mum could not satisfy him sexually and also he is looking to have more children(yes in his 60s).

Personally I wouldn’t want to date someone who is married with a very large age gap, I just don’t find them trustworthy, because the man might have other motives, if they discard their wives and kids of 20/30 years they might discard you if someone better comes along as they are not the faithful type, there is a risk you have to take. Also they are selfish in dating a much younger woman, as when they get old you might become their carer.

The issue OP is that you are not getting what you need from your current relationship. Take this as a warning and don’t marry this man.

You say that he’s always had hang ups and a prudishness about sex. This won’t improve when you’re married and will probably be even worse. Sexlessness or low sex is fine if both partners are compatible but you’re clearly not.

You do have options though and if you’re both willing you could have individual and or couples therapy/sex therapy to see if you can make any progress. If no progress then therapy might help you have an amicable split.

You’re still so young. When you look to the future how does it look?

You are fantasising about this older man because you aren't getting what you want from your relationship.

You need to forget him, as to go any further is to open a can of worms affecting a another woman and her family, not to mention you have no idea what the reality would be with him. He's just a distraction from your real problem.

Don't marry your partner unless and until you can sort out the intimacy problem. I've been where you are and things don't get better easily.

Maybe time to separate and find yourself again after 15 years. You've plenty of time to meet someone new in the years to come if that's what you decide you want.

@Shellady and @Onthedunes Yes, that's all right, too.

I am not sure, though, that the OP is entirely the one who should be shouldering the responsibility here. I happen to think that you should stick with a marriage unless it's so intolerable that you have no choice but to end it, and I would say that low-level unhappiness isn't a reason to leave or to have an affair - especially not once you have children.

However, I really do think it's the older woman's husband who ought to be thinking about his wife's feelings (assuming, that is, she isn't herself abusive/unfaithful/intolerable - and being an older woman doesn't automatically make you a saint. I am an older woman, and I am decidedly not a saint!)

@Onthedunes Well said!

Every time I read posts on here showing empathy for women who are tempted to embark on affairs with married men I am astounded that so many put the sole responsibility on the man.

Given there are millions of single men out there, available for relationships, I find women who choose to flirt with married men morally repugnant. Of course the man is an arse but it takes two to enable this to happen.

Dignity and self-respect alone would stop me from flirting with a married man. But more than that I have respect for other people’s lives and relationships. If I wouldn’t want it done to me I wouldn’t do it to another human being, whether I know them or not.

@PeterIsACockwomble

As I have said of course it is not the op's responsiblity to police another womans husband.

But she should police herself.

The two acts are separate, two people causing harm and inflicting hurt does not absolve one or the other.
Take ownership for the pain you cause to others.

If you are aware that your actions are causing pain to another individual, don't do it.

Women are not respected enough in society without other women actively perpetuating the normalisation of being able to discard older women.

How can we ever win when our elders are not respected.

How would op feel if her partner was fawning over a twenty year old.
This sort of stuff is conditioned early on for women to learn not to expect much.

Bollocks to that.
Respect other women.

@NotJustfriends

What a difficult situation

What I would say is my best friend when we were 19/20 got with a man who was 40 but he didn't look and act like it

Fast forward 20 odd years he looks like her Dad, has tonnes of health issues and my friend will now basically become his carer

She has
No sex life (hasn't had for about 10 years) and he's become very "old" and
Never wants to go anywhere or do anything. They have one daughter who is 18 and is just going to university and I think this will be the push she needs to leave him as she's been very happy.

He was the manager at the bar she had a part time job in snd he played in a band and "was" very cool at the time - her parents weren't happy at all and now all she gets from her mum is "I told you so"! X

Well this is the easiest problem to solve I have ever seen on Mumsnet.

Don't marry someone who makes you unhappy and who you are clearly uncompatible with.

Stop dicking around with this married man. It sucks waiting around for a slot in his diary to be a side fuck and it you will be cunting all over someone else to do that.

Start dating and find a single man who makes you happy and who you enjoy having sex with.

Sorry OP but you are already having an emotional affair. To say you ‘wouldn’t do this to another woman’ means you don’t think that what has happened so far would hurt his wife.

You are right. What you have done so far wouldn’t hurt her. It would devastate her. You are already helping him to hurt her, she just doesn’t know yet. Anything that has to be kept secret from his wife or your partner is infidelity, from ‘just flirting’ to full sex. If you’re hiding it, chances are you know his wife and your partner wouldn’t like it. Tell them and do them the courtesy of having a choice as to whether they want to be with people who are doing this to them. You seem to think it’s ok for you to test the waters and choose, let them have the same choices about your behaviour.

Affairs are all about how the affair partner makes you feel. You are allowing these feelings to trump everything and everyone else. All the criticisms levelled at your partner might be accurate, or skewed when compared to your infatuation, but that’s not important. If you are in a monogamous relationship you need to deal with that first, however your partner behaves.

Tell your partner and be honest, then pursue this other man when he has been honest and is free to have a proper relationship with you. Until this happens everything you are doing is an affair. The rest is excuses and window dressing. The first person you need to be honest with is yourself.

@Thewookiemustgo

I agree Wookie.

What annoys me is your sense of entitlement and almost absolute ignorance regarding the people in this drama. An almost, don't worry its just an old man I'm thinking of using for sex and who's that in the background an old trout of a woman who deserves no consideration at all.

These are real people who you are disreguarding just because they are not in your age group doesn't mean they (her really) do not have emotions.

So long as you aquire what you need, someone to place you on a pedastal and make you feel off the scale desirable with an old man, nothing else matters except your droning on about 'poor you' without your perfect sex life.

I actually don't think it is about sex with you, I think you want to be adored.

It really isn't kind completely ignoring this womans existance.

Split with your partner, tell him the truth and also tell his wife the truth, she deserves that at least.

[quote NotJustfriends]@onthedunes I wish I could take your advice, but as I said, I feel addicted to talking to him, and it seems impossible at the moment to even go a day not talking to him. Sounds so pathetic I know. I know taking a step back would stop this, but I guess that's the problem, I'm not ready to.[/quote]
Hi, OP.

I've been in a very similar situation to you - almost exactly the same - and I am feeling like I can see this all spiralling downward for you.

I have read all your posts and I was exactly where you are, about 7 or 8 years ago. I was thinking in the same way as you, both about my partner and about the other man, who was also married. I also didn't want to hurt anyone.

This is not going to work out the way you think it is.

I know you won't listen to me, so this post is kind of futile, because I know exactly what frame of mind you are in right now.

But I'll just say, if you can fight it at all and disentangle yourself from this before it gets worse, do. Because it's not going to be a fun ride.

You can PM me if you want.

@NotJustfriends This is pure fantasy. There is nothing in your posts that makes me think your ‘friendship’ is based on reality at all. You’ve talked daily. You don’t actually know this man. He doesn’t know you. You are infatuated by a fantasy. Nothing more.

This happened to my step-sister. She became infatuated with a man at work despite being in an long term relationship herself (she was unhappy and dissatisfied as you are). Wanted to be with the married man…first texting then making lots of sexual advances and engaging in lots of flirtation. Both of them liked how it made them feel. The endorphins ran high.

My sister thought she would get the married man no problem. She was 20 years younger than him and his wife, like yourself. She was absolutely determined and would message him day and night banking on the fact he would leave his wife for her.

She ended the relationship with her boyfriend to force the issue. The married man, however, chose his wife.

My sister really didn’t want to be on her own. She genuinely thought married man would fall into her lap at her bidding.

Absolute fantasy. The married man liked her but when he had to choose (as everyone does in the end) he didn’t choose her.

@TheNewBlack so true. Tale as old as time, isn’t it? So sad.

But like I've already said, I'm not looking to start a relationship with him. Neither of us want that, we're at completely different stages in our lives, and that would never be on the possible. I have found out he is 100% married, and facing the same frustrations I am at home. I don't know why I'm being abused on here for "what I've done" when I've specifically said I wouldn't sleep with him whether or not I'm a relationship, as I wouldn't do that to his wife. Yes I know we shouldn't be talking how we are, and I do feel bad about it. My partner I'm pretty sure wouldn't even care if he saw the messages as he's so detatched from anything flirty, he probably wouldn't read it that way. But yes I do feel bad for his wife, and I know I don't fully know their situation, but apparently she spends very little time at home and frequency doesn't come home overnight. I'm not sure if she's entirely innocent... Not saying two wrongs make a right, but I think everyone is painting their own version of this, with a poor fragile, middle aged woman being "left" for a younger model, when this is so far from the reality

I don’t think you can guarantee that what he is telling you is wholly accurate. My DH could say the same about me not being home frequently but it’s because my job takes me all over the place and I care for elderly parents who live some distance away, not because I am disengaged.

What you are depicting is the start of an affair. The regular messaging, the sharing of little confidences, how frustrated you both are, how your partners don’t ‘get’ you, how much you like each other. You are developing closeness with someone outside your main relationship. Everyone in this situation paints a picture of ‘it’s different for us’. My sister did. She totally pushed aside the reality of the situation and chose to believe that they were somehow ‘different’ from others who had embarked on affairs. That’s called denial. It’s hard to face up to the fact that what you are doing is only going to go one way unless you apply the brakes.

If your partner is that disengaged and disinterested then it is time for you to move on and find someone who is wholly available to you. Someone who is free to love you. Don’t invest your time and energy in someone who isn’t free. At the very least it will be messy. At the most it will end in tears, deceit, hurt and betrayal. Not the foundations of a relationship you would want. Certainly not when you have the freedom to leave your current relationship and find someone who can really love you back. Your married man can’t.

Facing the same frustrations at home?

Your frustrations are sexual so is your older OM talking to you about his sexual frustrations.

You are believing this man and you don't know him, I think you are being naive.
You believe she is away overnight regularly, is that because you text at night and it's believable? - for all you know he maybe in another bedroom and talking rubbish.
Maybe you do not think flirting at your age is too bad and you seem to think your partner wouldn't care but if he knew the content and frequency of what you are saying in RL and by phone to this man I'm sure he would care.

The wife would definitely care, as when you get older communication and trust becomes even more important as older couples do tend to rely on each other more, as there tends to be less options for starting again when older if things go wrong.

As I said before would you be hurt if this was happening to your parents?

You havn't answered that one, but I do think you have ignored this aspect of this affair, have you thought of his grown up children, what they would think, they are probably a similar age to you.

You are in denial and you are definitely in a relationship with this man.

‘Not saying two wrongs make a right, but I think everyone is painting their own version of this, with a poor fragile, middle aged woman being "left" for a younger model, when this is so far from the reality’

MNy middle aged women as you say have responsibilities caring for aged parents
Get real , you know fully well that if she were ‘ not innocent ‘ as you say ( implying her nights away might be with another man , he would certainly be telling you so during your deep and meaningful chats
The reason people are saying the things they are is because it has nothing to do with you saying you wouldn’t sleep with him
You’re having an emotional affair with a married man