Do you share my mother's view on sex?

[ciabatta]

Hi everyone. I am 19. Not a mum but want to ask the opinion of parents who might share the same perspective as my mum.

I am currently in a same sex relationship with a woman. We met at university. I identify and live as male but I don't think that's too important to this story. In the past I have had some bad or unhealthy sexual experiences, starting from around 10 years old, which affected my self esteem and relationships. For the first time in my life I have been able to have loving, healthy, satisfying sex with my girlfriend. We have been together for 6 months now.

My mum, who I always thought was very laid back, is now telling me she thinks it's too early in the relationship for me to be having sex. She's telling me it's immoral. I don't know all the details but I know my mum was also having sex at this age and younger. She had a strained relationship with her own mother because she was so rebellious. She got a divorce, had kids before getting married, has pursued a married man on one occasion (that I know of) and had one night stands. I don't see my mum as an immoral person but a human being, whereas she seems to think I'm in the wrong for having sex with my girlfriend. She doesn't want my girlfriend coming round even really to get to know her. I thought it might be a bit of homophobia but firstly my mum is notorious for hating any kind of guests in her home, and she also was completely accepting of me being transgender when I came out 7 years ago.

I was barely ever allowed friends around and told not to use the toilet at night my entire life because it would "make too much noise"... I understand she is like this but her comments on my relationship and morals have really upset me, especially when my girlfriend is lovely, polite, respectful, and has visibly helped me gain confidence and happiness. She also said she doesn't want my little brothers seeing "inappropriate behaviour" (the most inappropriate thing I have done around them is put my arm around my girlfriend).

What are your thoughts on this? Is my mum being really hypocritical and/or old fashioned? She wants to me to live with her next year while I go to uni (I live very close) so I can help her out financially, but I'm not sure I want to if she's going to try to control what I do in my relationship.

P.S, my nan who is almost 80 years old is more relaxed about my girlfriend coming round than my mum!

@ThePlantsitter

If in this hypothetical situation your child asked you if they could have sex... As a consenting adults... You wouldn't explicitly say yes? Christ you're strange!!! What is wrong with your adult kids a) having sex and b) asking their mother for advice ?

Moderate your tone please. You don't have to agree with me but if you actually want a conversation rather than just getting someone's back up you're not doing it in the right way.

I cannot imagine explicitly saying 'yes you may have sex' to my children, no. I can imagine talking to them about it and helping them to come to their own decision about it. I can imagine saying 'OK' if they said they were going to have sex. But no, I cannot imagine saying 'yes darling you may have sex with your partner now' because it's none of my fucking business once they're adults and able to make a decision for themselves. If they are asking me whether or not they SHOULD I'm not going to say YES if they don't know themselves! That suggests they bloody shouldn't.

Ummm "moderate your tone" followed by 'fucking' and 'bloody'. I am hoping you are able to see the hypocrisy.

If you're living as male then I wouldn't consider it as a same sex relationship, and describing it as that to people might be a bit of a head fuck.

Of course it is a same sex relationship as you say, OP.
The rubbish that is talked about sex & gender can make it confusing for many, tho.

Your OP asks - do we share your mum's views. I don't, and I'm in my 60s.

Your mum sounds weird in many ways, and not someone you should live with if you can avoid it.
Who knows why she has her strange views, but you are old enough now to keep out of the way of some of them.

I’m only commenting on you moving back -

Please don’t do it, even if it helps you out financially too. Some things aren’t worth the money, and she clearly still sees you as someone she can manipulate and control.

@YarnOver you were directly insulting to me. I was not to you.

[quote ThePlantsitter]@YarnOver you were directly insulting to me. I was not to you.[/quote]
Oh give it a rest mate, seriously.

Your mum sounds like a difficult person to live with or be related to - I think she'd be the same whether you had a boyfriend or girlfriend tbh. You're 19 and in a happy relationship - whether you're having sex or not is really not her concern! I agree with other posters that moving back in would not be a good idea. Its clear she does/would overstep boundaries and make your life difficult.

Wishing you all the best

I feel for you at 19 I had my first boyfriend and was called a tart because we did things, (long story he was gay I found out later so I still at virgin when I finished with him) mothers like these are toxic and hell to live with, as soon has you can leave home. Then cut down the contact, I went nc for last six years of her life best thing I ever did. You’ve got a life now life it without her dragging you down she’s done that long enough.

Homophobic parent - tick
History of sexual abuse - tick
Lesbian - tick

We're not supposed to talk about the 10,000's of girls who try to escape 'womanhood' by transing - but when we do, time and time again, they have a profile almost exactly like yours, OP.

I wouldn't move back in with her if I were her. I'd also consider counselling. It sounds like you have had an awful lot to deal with. Good luck.

I think that you should move out, if that is at all feasible. Then you will be able to make your own adult choices without your mum's opinion carrying so much weight. She does sound hyper-critical, if not hypocritical, but it is up to her who comes to stay in her home. Time to fly the nest!

I do not agree with your mother's views about sex.

There is a lot in your story and I think you would benefit from exploring some of it through counselling or therapy.

There is nothing in the description of your relationship with your girlfriend that sounds anything other than a healthy relationship and if she makes you happy and you are happy having sex with her, then that is a perfectly normal thing for a 19 year old male or female to be doing.

The fact you mention sexual experiences at the age of 10 is not normal. As someone else said, no 10 year old should be having sexual experiences. The fact that your mother controlled your habits regarding going to the toilet and wishes to control exert some control over your relationships now, is concerning. Also not allowing friends or partners to.gisit your home and saying that she does not want your younger brothers exposed to something immoral all sounds concerning.

You sound like you are in a really good place to start to unpick some of these questions and to understand where your boundaries should be and how to address these questions with your mother. There maybe more but with time you can let them come.

You are an adult, in transition into taking full responsibility for your life depending on what ties to have to your mother but you don't need to do this alone, talk to your nan if you can but also seek out other support.

@Muchasgracias you're entirely right, somehow I read the OPs description of 'bad/unhealthy sexual experiences' and completely missed the part about her being 10 when that started. OP apologies, that is very obviously abuse, not a choice, and I'm sorry that happened to you.

Are you sure your mother doesn't know about the abuse? Have you received counselling and support? If you're in uni now, there should be mental health services available to you. I think if your mother didn't notice/was unaware you were abused, didn't allow you to use the toilet in the night, had such conflicting responses to you being sexually active then it clearly doesn't sound like the healthiest relationship. I think maybe you're giving her opinion more value than it needs to hold, and some independent therapy may help you unpick that.

The main thing is you feel in a relationship where you're able to be yourself, and feel supported, but you also need to make sure you have the strength to hold your own boundaries outside that relationship.

Your mum has serious hang ups about sex as well as bodies in general. You are an adult in a loving relationship for 6 months. Having a sexual relationship is perfectly normal.

I would look at moving out if I were you.

You sound very level-headed ciabatta and it's terrible that your mother is putting you through this.

No, I don't share your mother's view on sex. I do agree with some other posters that there can be a tendency with abusive parents to shame their kids in a hypocritical way (rather than a parent with a healthy relationship with their child might guide away from something from their own experiences). It's another method of control.

And, as someone with gender dysphoria, the way you're framing your situation and relationships is pretty common. It might be weird or a head fuck to other people, there is a push from many directions to control the narrative on how trans and other dysphoric people discuss ourselves and our lives, but I just wanted to say you aren't alone is discussing your relationship as same sex while presenting as a guy. I did it myself when I was a bit younger than you are now, I know others who've done so for years.

I was waiting for this type of comment.

My gender dysphoria presented itself far before I ever had any sexual experience. I wouldn't say I was sexually abused, but I did have unhealthy experiences with sex, with others my age, in an attempt to get boys to like me, and in turn be "one of the lads".

I am not a lesbian. I am bisexual. SSA is most definitely a contributor to feeling the need to transition, but for me, although my mum has at times been somewhat disapproving of lesbian sex/affection, she always told me she wouldn't mind if I came out as lesbian. She has supported me no matter what, I just wonder if she is "weirded out" by lesbian sex specifically. Would she mind me having sex if I was dating a man? Hard to say, I've never brought a man home as a boyfriend. I've never felt that she would resent me for having a girlfriend, but that she may find it strange.

While there are hundreds and thousands more cases of young trans people being referred to gender clinics with comorbid issues like autism, eating disorders, and sexual abuse, there are a remaining percentage who fit the gender dysphoria profile their entire childhood, not just after trauma or puberty.

I definitely agree with you that more and more young girls are viewing transition as a way to escape the trials of womanhood. I can't speak for them, though. I myself recognise my mental illness as such, and don't claim to be born in the wrong body, etc., I just prefer to present outwardly as a man. You may not believe gender dysphoria is legitimate or caused by anything other than misogyny, and I understand, but I do request that people are respectful and civil.

Thank you for wishing me luck!

I think your mother has her own issues. The toilet and friends situations suggest that your childhood may well have been quite dysfunctional. Combine this with your early childhood sexual experiences, which may or may not have been contributed to by bad parenting, leads me to think that you haven’t really had a great or normal upbringing.

My personal view is that you untangle the mix of emotions that you may have due to your dysfunctional childhood (possibly the identifying as a man is caught up with this too, although not necessarily) through some counselling. You may not even be aware of what “normal” is if your relationship with your mother is as you’ve said. Maybe your university can help access this.
You need to be able to separate yourself from your mothers judgement and need for approval, and be confident in your own choices. You are an adult, and whilst it’s understandable not to flaunt any sexual relationship to younger siblings or even share a bed in the family home at your age, it’s certainly not any of your mothers business what you do in your own home or what type relationships you have.
I can understand your mother more if she were deeply religious, but given her history she has no right to judge you at all. Please don’t even consider moving in with her. No parents should ask their child to help support them. They should be helping their child spread their wings and fly into the outside world with confidence. The facts she wants you to move home is dysfunctional in itself, if it’s for her own selfish needs.

An update for everyone: I didn't expect to receive this many responses! You have almost all expressed genuine concern and advice for me which I really appreciate.

Addressing a few points -

"Have you had therapy for your sexual experiences?" No, I haven't. I'm not sure it would be worth dredging it all up after I finally feel I've moved on. As to what happened, if you are curious, I was taken advantage of or pressured into sex and sexual contact by various boys for most of my teen life starting at around 10. I would describe only one of these many encounters as non consensual, but it all damaged my self esteem as I felt this was all I had to offer anyone. I am doing fine and I feel very lucky to be able to move past my experiences.

"Does your mum know about this?" - No. I've never told my family.

"Your mum sounds abusive" - What I have described here is only the half of it, but my childhood was grim. She hated me because I was the child of a violent, abusive ex. As a result, I was ignored completely, insulted, mocked, told I was unworthy of love, from as early as I can remember. Another thing that affected my relationships and self esteem.

"Why are you even considering moving back in?!" - I wanted to help her financially. She currently has to work two jobs, and the reasonable rent I would be giving her would help her a lot. Our relationship has improved massively and she no longer has the same power over me as she used to. When she apologised to me for the way she treated me as a child, I knew I had the choice to cut contact, or move on. I chose to move on. She's flawed, but she's still my mum.

"Is your mum religious?" - She considers herself Christian but she has never expressed or pushed a religious view on any of us.

"What gender are you??????" - I regret mentioning my identity because it seems to have confused the matter. I am a transgender man dating a woman, but I consider my relationship to be same sex due to us having the same anatomy. I don't really wish to debate the issue of being transgender. I respect anyone's civil opinion on the matter and won't rise to any bait. Don't worry about me "cancelling" you, but I can't speak for anyone else on the thread who may find your views offensive.

I will continue to read all of your comments and appreciate everyone's perspective. I guess the reason I asked the question was mainly to work out if it is considered normal and acceptable for two 19 year olds in a 6 month relationship to be having sex. Judging my your comments, that is very normal. Therefore, I feel better about what my mum said, because I did stop to wonder if maybe I was behaving without morals.

Thank you all, especially for the kind words!

@ciabatta

I was waiting for this type of comment.

My gender dysphoria presented itself far before I ever had any sexual experience. I wouldn't say I was sexually abused, but I did have unhealthy experiences with sex, with others my age, in an attempt to get boys to like me, and in turn be "one of the lads".

I am not a lesbian. I am bisexual. SSA is most definitely a contributor to feeling the need to transition, but for me, although my mum has at times been somewhat disapproving of lesbian sex/affection, she always told me she wouldn't mind if I came out as lesbian. She has supported me no matter what, I just wonder if she is "weirded out" by lesbian sex specifically. Would she mind me having sex if I was dating a man? Hard to say, I've never brought a man home as a boyfriend. I've never felt that she would resent me for having a girlfriend, but that she may find it strange.

While there are hundreds and thousands more cases of young trans people being referred to gender clinics with comorbid issues like autism, eating disorders, and sexual abuse, there are a remaining percentage who fit the gender dysphoria profile their entire childhood, not just after trauma or puberty.

I definitely agree with you that more and more young girls are viewing transition as a way to escape the trials of womanhood. I can't speak for them, though. I myself recognise my mental illness as such, and don't claim to be born in the wrong body, etc., I just prefer to present outwardly as a man. You may not believe gender dysphoria is legitimate or caused by anything other than misogyny, and I understand, but I do request that people are respectful and civil.

Thank you for wishing me luck!

You sound incredibly mature and sensible.

Too sensible to allow your mother to control your finances and sex life, so please don't.

Do seek counselling though, you've had a difficult start in life and it would be a good investment in yourself for a happier future.

So much to unpick but honestly no parent wants to hear adult children having sex regardless. I’m 60, my adult children visit and stay over and no sex happening here…I also have friends visit and stay over…no sex. Generally common curtesy.
If they moved back, we’d have to figure something out I guess but I’d not want to see hear or know about it for sure.

Do think think she is in fact homophobic? (Assuming you’re a biological female) or transphobic (as you say you identify as male)?

My point being, if you were a women and your partner was a man, do you think she’d still have an issue with you having a heterosexual sex life?

At 19, I’d say no, you’re not too young to be having sex and your mother sounds like an asshole (abuser?) Who doesn’t let their child go to the loo at night.

When my mother found out I was sexually active after prying the information out of me when I came home late one saturday night, I was 19 and she looked at me in utter disgust and called me a dirty little slag. I wonder what she'd have said if she'd known I'd already been at it for 3 years by that point!

Quite frankly I thought she was an idiot and a hypocrite. I was seeing one guy, someone I'd known since childhood and a brother of one of my friends and we were both single adults, careful and hurting no one. My mum on the other hand cheated on my dad with at least one other man, possibly 2 and often used to tell me which of my stepdad's mates she fancied!

I think in her head she was being "protective/caring" or something, who knows!

You're an adult and your sex life is not your mums business so refuse to discuss it with her at all.

It's not up to me to judge your mum and her house rules. I personally don't think you are too young to be in a sexual relationship and judging by your post you are very mature and know what you want. I can't quite understand her anxiety because the one thing I might be fearful of, given her history, is unwanted pregnancy, but unless your girlfriend is also transgender (ie a biological male) there's no danger of that.

I also strongly believe that it is impossible to corrupt young minds by opening expressing affection (not overtly sexual) between two consenting adults of any age/sex or gender. So you and your girlfriend showing affection in front of children is not an issue imo.

You're an adult. It really doesn't matter what she thinks.

I have been respectful and civil - although i don't know what you mean by saying 'gender dysphoria is legitimate' - it exists, doesn't it, most feminists recognise it - it is TRA's who deny it - and I certainly don't think its just caused by misogyny.
I think you're very young - young enough to be very bothered by what your Mum says and young enough to be wondering if all mums think the same. (They certainly don't. And your Mum sounds like she's got an awful lot wrong...)
I hope you don't dash down a medical path for your gender dysphoria - you don't seem to be leaning that way - and I hope you look into the experiences of the many, many women who've been where you've been. (transgender trend is a good site)
I believe any movement where people talk about: 'dressing or living like a man' reinforces out-dated regressive stereotypes and therefore makes life more restrictive for yourself and ultimately harder for the rest of us but hey... you do you. :)

Just read your update - I'm so sorry to hear about your experiences as a child. absolutely horrendous, you poor thing. You didn't do anything wrong - please get some help to process this psychologically otherwise it may well come back with a vengeance further down the line.

I understand that you still want a relationship with your mum, and it's a positive thing that you've discussed her previous abuse. However, I really think your mum is still controlling and that this will have a negative effect on you if you live together.

It's not your responsibility to support your mum. You have had a very difficult early life and you really deserve time to put yourself first. Your mum is being very selfish trying to persuade you not to have your freedom just to suit her. I am about her age and consider that my children's freedom and autonomy is absolutely paramount. Of course I give them advice if they need it, but I would certainly not involving myself in their living arrangements or their sex live. It's not normal and it's unhealthy. Someone who has had their boundaries trampled on in their past, as you have by your mother and by those boys (the two things are not unconnected), is likely to really struggle with seeing what is appropriate or controlling.

I also recommend you have some counselling to explore this. You don't have to go over the past sexual abuse or the abuse by your mother, but you can look at where you place your boundaries in the present and how you ensure you feel confident at making your own decisions without guilt or shame.

Wishing you lots of luck, you sound like a very thoughtful and interesting person.