Relationship with high-functioning Asperger's guy

[idrinkandiknowthings]

Hiya

I've been approached by a guy on a dating site and we've been messaging for a week. He is absolutely hilarious, has me in stitches.

He's told me that he's HFA. Does anyone have any experience of dating someone with HFA? We've arranged to meet at the end of the month. Obviously, it's very early days.

Ta!!

@OuiOuiKitty

*"do you want people to only talk to you about things that interest you?"

Well, frankly, yes, unless they are willing to accept that they might get a response that makes them uncomfortable, or at least, accepting of the fact that the interaction might not go they way it is typically expected to by NT people.*

This is interesting. In my house now we have a teen and an almost teen and they are old enough now to make up their own opinion of dh. They can see plain as day that he isn't interested in most of the things that are important to them so they don't involve him. We have become somewhat of a threesome me and the kids. They come to me with everything and as a result we are all really close, we share a lot of jokes and a lot of laughs and also the hard bit of being of a teen. They think their dad is boring, they find his lack of opinions on topics boring, the way he stares blankly instead of cracking a joke or sharing an insight boring, his monologues on the topics that do interest him boring. Dh has expressed that this makes him feel on the outside of our family but I don't know how to fix this?

He can't or won't show an interest in 95% of their lives, they can see this so don't want to share their lives with someone who isn't interested. I can't force them to feel something they don't, I have tried to get them to tell dh certain things, he blank stares and they back away, he feels hurt, they feel hurt. I've tried explaining to them that he cares he just shows it differently but at this point they just roll their eyes at me, they clearly don't believe me.

There doesn't seem to me to be a solution where everyone feels cared for and appreciated. Everybody is hurting in someway.

At the end that's the truth. No matter how hard we try to pretend - there isn't one. Because unlike food, water and shelter no human is owed love. Yes, in a moral and philosophical sense 'every human deserves to be loved and blah blah blah' but whose job is it to give it? While society needs to be polite and 'inclusive' etc all of this communication managing is a minefield and a lot of mental effort. For both sides. It would be better for society to teach people to be happy in their own company. If you're one of the ones for whom bridging the gap is too difficult. Pretending that 'everyone can understand each other no matter what and live happily ever after' is just dumb. Some people are blind and will never see no matter what you do. Some people will never be able to interact with other people naturally on the same level. In fact even 2 autistic people for example might not want to interact because they both only want to talk about what they are interested in - which are not the same thing. Short of acknowledging this and building in 'structured' communication for the sole purposes of communication with no other bonds and obligation I see no other way.

@RickiTarr

That sounds complicated *@OuiOuiKitty* but one thing that jumps out is that I doubt your OH is really “high functioning”.

He holds down a responsible job, he used to be fun, we used to laugh all the time, he used to be engaged and interested in lots of things, he is in a zoom meeting right now cracking jokes with his co workers and talking about mundane things that I know don't interest him. He can do it. He used to do it. Somedays if we are doing something fun that interests him he is 'on' all day. For sure it seems like as he has gotten older(it is 20years since we met and he is knocking on 50) certain things have become more entrenched(? I'm not sure if that is the right word), more things set him off into melt down. I don't know if studies have been done on people with ASD ageing, can it change over time? Most ASD things on the Web seem to be about children but certainly speaking to others married for a long time to people with ASD lots of them notice a decline in ability and an increase in rigidity.

I want to say I'm really trying not to offend anyone here, if I phrase things wrong or cause offence it is unintentional.

I’m just worried that poor OP will be put off when, in truth, autists vary a LOT, and this poor chap has been upfront about his diagnosis, which seems both brave and a good sign to me.

he is in a zoom meeting right now cracking jokes with his co workers and talking about mundane things that I know don't interest him. He can do it. He used to do it. Somedays if we are doing something fun that interests him he is 'on' all day.

See, that proves to me that there is more going on than the autism, sadly for you. Selfish bastard syndrome and autistic spectrum conditions make a horrible mix, but most autists aren’t selfish bastards, thankfully. I do feel for you. He sounds a nightmare.

I want to add as well that of course everybody declines as such when they age(and 48 isn't exactly old!) but it seems very marked in dh and I know other people in long term relationships with people with ASD who feel the same.

@OuiOuiKitty @RickiTarr I think this is a good example of why 'high functioning' doesn't really work as a description. That OuiOui's DH can do something in certain situations doesn't meanhe can do them in all situations or that he is comfortable doing them. Of course I don't know what goes in his mind, but being sociable often costs autistic people tons of energy and deliberate work. And it's really hard (and from your own perspective not desirable) to do this in your own home situation all the time. And yes, I've heard from many people and definitely feel this myself that the older you get the less 'trying' you do. Sometimes from exhaustion and sometimes from just wanting to be your unmediated self more. A bit like how women in their 40s and 50s often say they stop caring so much what other people think and start living life more on their own terms.

I can imagine how hard this is for you, though, living with that change.

So DH can do a Zoom call and chat about mundane things but it leaves him quite exhausted. He will however make an effort for the kids (ours are young) and he really enjoys playing what I think are very dull games with them. We do have similar interests so it is usually fine. And yes he is more rigid than he was twenty years ago but then actually so am I and I am entirely NT.

@Prowling

My needs are not met by HFA husband. I am leaving him.

I realised that my happiness matters too and I don't want to be lumbered with everything being more difficult than it would be with someone who is NT.

Mine is extremely apathetic though and is "fact" mad. Thoughts and feelings don't exist. I will never become involved with someone like this again.

Same here, I'm divorcing mine after 20 years, I've been trying to leave for the last ten years but he wouldn't take me seriously

@picklemewalnuts

The love bombing thing- Where it happens, it's not deliberate in the way the term is often used.

It's more that winning you is the current 'special interest'. You are the focus of his hyper attention. Once you have been 'won' ie, married, moved in, whatever the goal is, then that focus is likely to be redirected to the next goal.

It's not an unusual pattern, but feels like abandonment when you aren't expecting it. My husband was so attentive and loving in the early days. He did all the 'boyfriend' stuff. When we married he moved on to doing the 'responsible provider' stuff. Then he did the Dad stuff.

Thing is, the close friend/lover stuff got left behind, and also there are other things he doesn't do- he opted out of anything sickness or care related.

It's hard to get him to pay attention to what I want and need, he is caught up in his own idea of how he should be at this stage of our lives. And he struggles to change things he has decided on.

Your chap will have many excellent qualities, you just have to find out what they are and see how you fit. Be prepared for his 'total package' to be a bit more spiky in terms of strength and weaknesses.

This is DH to a tee! It makes perfect sense now

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria

Yes, Castaway he has many traits and that is why he landed up with a diagnosis in his mid40s.

Most the traits are positive, he excels in his work because of them. He is totally honest, he does not lie. He is loyal and hardworking and devoted to us. I am never going to find out that he has had an affair or gambled the house away or any of the awful behaviours that you see on threads on here.

But, he masked when we were dating and therefore I feel hoodwinked because his "normal" is not what I thought it was. He wasn't manipulating or deceiving me, he was following the script from films because he didn't instinctively know how to "do" romance.

I'd like a bit of romance, to feel connected to him and to feel like we have an emotional intimacy. It's reasonable of me to feel a bit sad that I don't, and won't have that.

This resonates too.

I'm so glad I stumbled across this post

@OuiOuiKitty I had a book called "Understanding Autism in Adults and Aging Adults" by Theresa Regan which I recall was good. I think our ability to mask / perform does decrease with age - definitely in women around menopause, but in men too.

he is in a zoom meeting right now cracking jokes with his co workers and talking about mundane things that I know don't interest him. He can do it. He used to do it. Somedays if we are doing something fun that interests him he is 'on' all day.

I really sympathise with this because it must feel as though he is choosing to do it for them and can't be arsed to do it for you.

I can do this too, for relatively short periods, but it is exhausting. The best way to describe being 'on' like that is to imagine that you have gone to work and you're doing a training weekend. You're looking forward to a fairly relaxed day, lunch will be put on, all you have to do is find a comfy chair, kick back and relax while you listen to the lectures and seminars.

You've just poured your coffee and selected your favoured tiny packet of biscuits when the convenor comes over and hisses "What are you doing? Get on the stage NOW" and you find you are in fact presenting each of the lectures. You get up there and make the best of it, trying not to let anybody see how frantically you are paddling beneath the surface. Between the lectures while others have breaks you hurriedly mug up on what to say next. By 4pm it is over. You've got away with it. Everyone else wants you to come and chat and have drinks, but you can't - all you want to do is sit in your hotel room quietly. You have a brittle smile as you try to make your way through the crowd, keeping your greetings short, looking for an escape. As you leave you hear someone say "fuckssake, what's wrong with HER / HIM?" Despite all of your hard work performing someone else's slideshow, you have still made a social faux pas at the end of it, and you find you don't even have the energy to care (it will still wake you up at 3am feeling anxious about it though). This is what masking / dropping the mask feels like.

@KarmaViolet Love that analogy, that's exactly how it feels.

See, that proves to me that there is more going on than the autism, sadly for you. Selfish bastard syndrome and autistic spectrum conditions make a horrible mix, but most autists aren’t selfish bastards, thankfully. I do feel for you. He sounds a nightmare.

You see I think it is easy to write it off as this but I know him. I have known him for 20 years. I can 'see' his mind stuttering when the kids come to him. It's hard to describe but I know a lot of the time it isn't intentional, it's like he can just get nothing to come out, the platitudes etc that would fly off out of my mouth just get caught somewhere in him.

@OuiOuiKitty I had a book called "Understanding Autism in Adults and Aging Adults" by Theresa Regan which I recall was good. I think our ability to mask / perform does decrease with age - definitely in women around menopause, but in men too.
Thanks! I will definitely look this up. For me it is definitely something I have observed with dh. I love him a lot and we do still have lots of good times together, especially when it is just the 2 of us but I do think that he really stuggles with the teens and their needs, it is difficult emotionally to raise teens, there are lots of hormones flying around our household so I think it makes sense that he struggles with this.

Carrying on the analogy to look at ageing, if you do that every day for decades, three things happen:

1. you become more adept at doing it because you have practised so much, so people underestimate your support needs or even question your diagnosis;

2. the stress of doing it so often for so long begins to take a toll and you stop being able to manage other things in your life - if it gets really bad this is called autistic burnout;

3. your tolerance for deviation from the script reduces. You now have your script, you can do this performance quite well now (see 1) - if someone then decides to introduce something new or off-timetable you might get quite angry or overwhelmed.

I can 'see' his mind stuttering when the kids come to him. It's hard to describe but I know a lot of the time it isn't intentional, it's like he can just get nothing to come out, the platitudes etc that would fly off out of my mouth just get caught somewhere in him.

I'm starting to wonder if I am your husband (evidently not, wrong job, wrong age, wrong sex)

Again this is something I know I do. My face is neutral while my mind is running the responses. I have no instinctive grasp of the 'right' thing to say, but I have over the years learned what I might say and what not to say, and where there might be bear traps. So when I respond to something I have to run it through an internal programme of "if x response then y or z possible replies; y leads to a, b or c; z leads to " and then select the response which best fits the situation and has the least potential damage at the end of it. By which time of course the conversation has moved on and I look uncommunicative. If your DH is already feeling like an outsider, he may be trying to select even more carefully than usual, meaning even more blank staring while trying to find the right response.

DP calls it my "404 error file not found" face and we laugh about it. I don't know whether your DH is too sensitive about it for that sort of humour. If I cannot get any words out we have a sign that means I can't speak at the moment, which all of us use.

What non-verbal communication does your household have? Do you ever text or sign or speak in lines from songs or movies? Could you try a family WhatsApp group or similar where he could respond to the teens in his own time, at his own rate, in writing, with a delete key available and the option of gifs? You don't have to tell the teens it's to facilitate non-verbal communication, you can just say it would be handy to have as they get older. You probably do have to tell your DH to acknowledge all messages sent by teens, even if it's just with a thumbs up or other emoji, don't expect him to guess.

So my previous partner was on the autistic scale and it took me a while to realise the fact he had fairly ridged way of doing things at first made me feel safe (if he said he would show up he always did) but life doesn't always run like that and in a crisis - he really couldn't handle it.

It was one of those things that at first was a positive but after a while turned into a massive negative because life isn't without its surprises.

Our relationship didn't work out because of cheating but that was more because we lost a baby v late stage and he absolutely could not deal so went to find something simpler. There is logic in the cheating if I remove the emotion around the cheating. Sadly.

He wanted to desperately to be what I needed but I found the inflexible to change or anything negative like being abandoned.
Simply put I couldn't cope (probably why I wanted that stability in first place. I just didn't realise it had limitations) really ridge ones

However here is a bright side of all this we have a DD. She's showing slight signs of Autism but no where near her dad and being female the symptoms are often even more reduced or hidden. She's incredibly bright and sunny child. She doesn't negate the losses we experienced but my good does she light up my world. The brighter side to this rather ghastly tale is - he always shows up reliably for DD (admittedly no more than the pattern) and for that I am thankful - it seems that some men on her regularly just nope out of the bare min and that I couldn't torrate. He couldn't ever be convinced not to show up.

So actually makes co parenting/blended family a dream because things like me being with DH isn't a issue because there isn't the emotion there. Same with maintaince it's a non issue. He won't ever help more but he hasn't ever let us down.

I would really look at how much flexibility you need, and be very specific in what that looks like - very specific.

I want to thank everyone on this thread.

Hearing insights from people with autism has been thought provoking and incredibly helpful.

Hearing insights from NT people in relationships with ND people has been validating, and that has been helpful.

I've done a lot of reading and podcasts and counselling and webinars and and and - in all honesty, this thread has done more for me than any of that stuff.

@newomums

So my previous partner was on the autistic scale and it took me a while to realise the fact he had fairly ridged way of doing things at first made me feel safe (if he said he would show up he always did) but life doesn't always run like that and in a crisis - he really couldn't handle it.

It was one of those things that at first was a positive but after a while turned into a massive negative because life isn't without its surprises.

Our relationship didn't work out because of cheating but that was more because we lost a baby v late stage and he absolutely could not deal so went to find something simpler. There is logic in the cheating if I remove the emotion around the cheating. Sadly.

He wanted to desperately to be what I needed but I found the inflexible to change or anything negative like being abandoned.
Simply put I couldn't cope (probably why I wanted that stability in first place. I just didn't realise it had limitations) really ridge ones

However here is a bright side of all this we have a DD. She's showing slight signs of Autism but no where near her dad and being female the symptoms are often even more reduced or hidden. She's incredibly bright and sunny child. She doesn't negate the losses we experienced but my good does she light up my world. The brighter side to this rather ghastly tale is - he always shows up reliably for DD (admittedly no more than the pattern) and for that I am thankful - it seems that some men on her regularly just nope out of the bare min and that I couldn't torrate. He couldn't ever be convinced not to show up.

So actually makes co parenting/blended family a dream because things like me being with DH isn't a issue because there isn't the emotion there. Same with maintaince it's a non issue. He won't ever help more but he hasn't ever let us down.

I would really look at how much flexibility you need, and be very specific in what that looks like - very specific.

Just to show a similar difference from a happier perspective - I came from a chaotic home life as a child and I almost certainly have ADD. DH's autistic reliability and consistency and his need for routine really perfectly suits me. He helps me create consistency and I help him handle spontaneity. It can be a really successful mix for the right people. We are definitely good for each other and we know it.

Anyone who quotes Maxine Aston is immediately suspect in n my book, her content is really awful to autistic people, and contains things like 'Cassandra Syndrome' that is not in any way supported by research and appears to be the product of her own fevered and prejudiced mind.

Nevertheless I was married to an autistic man for many many years, had kids and in most ways he was wonderful. Unfortunately his meltdowns and need for control ultimately amounted to emotional abuse and I had to leave. Like many autistic people, the challenges of constantly adapting to an NT world also left him with chronic anxiety and depression. However that is not all inevitable, because it is about temperament and lived experience along with autism - one of my DC's is autistic, and for a her a meltdown is far more of an implosion, still hard for her to manage but hopefully unlikely to terrify any future partners the way an explosion can.

I do think you should go in with your eyes open and if you do end up together, you might need a better than average support network - but also a funny guy, who is statistically less likely than the average guy to lie, cheat or break the law, among other things. Not such a bad trade.

I dunno, Cassandra Syndrome felt pretty real to me when married to an apparently lovely supportive man.

Mind you, same's true when I tried to tell people my stepmother was completely different from the charming, kind, giving person that she appeared to be.

I reckon the Cassandra Complex is real enough, it just applies in a lot of situations when youré dealing with people who present one way and then when you get to know them, present another.

@Cowbells I hope my previous post didn't come across as Uber negative. We didn't work as simple as that and if certain things didn't happen maybe we would be together. But for me if was I just can't hack it - I don't want anyone to take any negative perspectives from what I shared.

I have to stress he's a great dad and co parenting with him has actually been a dream. This probably for me any way takes away any bad things that happened in the relationship.He's a wonderful guy my ex, just not for me. Just puzzle pieces that were probably doomed some the start and I take 50% of the blame on that.

He also gave me back my reason for living and for that I'm so grateful

I think the Cassandra phenomenon probably does exist but not exclusively in ND/NT relationships - the trans widows threads on here reflect similar issues, as do some of the stately homes threads.

My ex would probably say she recognised our relationship in it. My problem with Aston's research and the Cassandra stuff is that it presupposes a male ND / female NT relationship and a heavily stereotypical one at that, and that the recommended therapies focus heavily on the ND person masking even more rather than trying to get the NT person to communicate in ND friendlier ways. There's limited recognition that the ND person might be anything other than a re-programmable robot.

[quote newomums]@Cowbells I hope my previous post didn't come across as Uber negative. We didn't work as simple as that and if certain things didn't happen maybe we would be together. But for me if was I just can't hack it - I don't want anyone to take any negative perspectives from what I shared.

I have to stress he's a great dad and co parenting with him has actually been a dream. This probably for me any way takes away any bad things that happened in the relationship.He's a wonderful guy my ex, just not for me. Just puzzle pieces that were probably doomed some the start and I take 50% of the blame on that.

He also gave me back my reason for living and for that I'm so grateful [/quote]
No you didn't sound too negative at all. I just recognised the differences you described and realised that for us, they work. I can see how our marriage is a mystery to other people. I have had loads of people take me aside and ask why I stay with him over the years (never told him this, obviously). It's the opposite of what others have said. In public he presents as sullen and nerdy and social inappropriate. At home, relaxed, he is hilariously funny, loving, romantic, does his share of the house work (though like all men he thinks he is a saint for doing an equal share and thinks he does more than half ) and as many PPs have said, he's a brilliant, reliable dad.

Hah. That sounds like my DH. Supremely awkward, sullen and exceptionally nerdy. And also very very good at what he does but utterly socially inept. At home he’s sweet and funny and loyal and a really great dad. And he takes his feminism really seriously. He’s made career sacrifices for me and the kids. He’s on the school PTA (US equivalent) and I am not!
I too have had people ask me about our relationship. I actually find it a little bit offensive. If people were asking DH how we could put up with me I would be hurt.

@alwayslearning789

Do you recognise that you could come across as cold to someone else in a relationship with you and would you care?

I completely accept I could come across as cold, but I think that's entirely in the eye of the beholder, and with regard to a relationship partner, would depend entirely on what they expect from a relationship, and whether or not they feel fulfilled by being in one with me.

Ex was not as affectionate or bothered about physical contact as me, never complained that I was 'cold'. Perhaps 'aloof' to a point, but only in the sense that it frustrated them that I simply didn't process information in the same way as they did, and obviously didn't spend much time thinking about things that were unimportant to me, so we often had that scenario where they'd want to have a 'discussion' about a particular aspect of our relationship, which, as far as I was concerned, wasn't an aspect that even existed. Nothing to discuss from my point of view.

Current partner is probably more similar to me in terms of the levels of intimacy, physical contact, and affection we expect and require. They've never even hinted they find me wanting in that respect, and we simply do not have 'what are you thinking?' type conversations as neither of us is the sort of person that gives much credence to those types of discussions in any case. They are very definitely NT, but we are rather similar in outlook and mindset, in that if one of us is doing or not doing something that puts the other out, we'll just voice it right there and then. There aren't any soul-searching, introspective, 'spiritual' type relationship discussions because neither of us is the sort to think in those terms anyway. We're both pretty practical and pragmatic people, and I certainly would never describe my partner as 'cold'. The opposite in fact.

Would I actually care if someone accused me of being 'cold'?

Well, all I can really do is put that in context. I'm certain that most people don't like to think others have negative or derogatory opinions about them. I'm no different. Having said that, if I was being accused of being 'cold' by a relationship partner, I'm comfortable enough with who and what I am that I'd regard it as their issue, not mine, and if they wanted to make a song and dance about it I'd be inclined to end the relationship. I'm not a fan of people who think others should fundamentally change themselves just to suit them