Friends disappeared .. again.. do I?

[Windingroad21]

Long time poster who flounced and came back with a new username.. hello!

I’ve had a long term friend and really close confidant, let’s call her A. She has this habit of being really in and then really out of communication. I (stupidly) have not challenged this before, made excuses in my head that ‘it’s just the way she is’.

More recently, it’s really began to peeve me. A started a new business which on the face of it didn’t seem a great move (I work in this field and have a lot of experience). I supported A fully and her business partner ‘did a number’ on her (not sure if true with hindsight). Anyway, point is.. she stopped randomly replying to messages from me for the best part of two months. Then, all of a sudden, is back in touch when she needs help. Me being me, helped her massively with a series of complaints, tax issues and business law (when I myself have a lot on and not massive mental capacity to take on others issues, but figured she’s my friend).

Since then comms have been on and off. She’s been getting work done at home and I supported and helped her through this too, even helping with DIY myself.

Now, once more, she’s gone off the radar. This time it was mid conversation. Nothing at all to cause it and complete radio silence. I’m really pissed off. How should I approach this? DP says challenge her on it but I don’t see the point. I’m having MH issues myself and don’t want the conflict/ to be gaslit potentially to believe I’m somehow at fault (don’t believe I am).

This is enhanced probably as my other close friend, let’s call her S, has got a new job and has went from being unemployed to the chief of the world and lauded over everyone in her circle with self importance. Whilst I’m really pleased for her, she’s completely changed and not asked a single question about me in almost a year. I’ve got so fed up of it all that I want to just tell them all to get stuffed. Or go missing in action myself.

What would you do ?

I just feel a mug for letting it go on for so long

Oh boy do I understand that! I feel like I’ve been learning lessons the past five years that I should have learned 20 years ago. It ain’t easy! But we’re not mugs, just humans learning!

[quote Windingroad21]@AryaStarkWolf I guess I feel bad as I know she can’t complete it herself and I fully intended on completing the job but now? Now I feel like a massive F you and I can’t be doing with helping you fix your life at your convenience when you can’t afford me the courtesy of a message / finishing a conversation or checking in.

I am so done with it all.[/quote]
Winding, congratulations on your insight & realisation that you are worth more than these 2 fiends (yup!) are offering you.

If A has the brass neck to challenge you about the DIY, just tell her straight, & hang the consequences. She hasn't been a good friend to you, you have helped her massively in the past & she felt entitled just to drop out of your life until she wanted help again. Don't be afraid to say so - no need to get riled up or escalate beyond that, but you will be doing yourself a big favour in terms of assertion & 'lancing the boil' emotionally.

As to S, feel free to point out that she never asks about you, & that you're bored of her being up her own arse about her BigJob.

Of course you don't have to tell either of them anything if it would make you uncomfortable or anxious, but I feel it might be cathartic ... so good for your generous soul to kick somebody up the proverbial for a change!

DP was wise to point out his opinion about BigJob.
Go & ask him for a massive hug, & then have some pleasant daydreams about either telling these 2 users straight, or simply not bothering to respond to their next demands. It will be immensely satisfying, & give you courage for however you decide to handle their selfishness in future.

It’s almost like my narcissistic mother who when she loses control (I.e. me not meeting her agenda) she loses it and starts lashing out.

Ah-HA!

& this, my dear Winding, is of course the nub of your problem.
You have uncounsciously found yourself 2 'fiends' who use you for narcissistic supply & push your buttons in the same way your mother does.

This is not your fault, & please stop calling yourself names & self-blaming. You are not wet - you've been conditioned since birth to put others first & ask "how high" when twats tell you to jump.

Reaching out here on MN marks a turning point for you, especially given the efforts you are making to find new interests & new friendship groups. Why not take this as a sign that you are ready to move on from being controlled by narcs/selfish people ... & start on some proper self-care?

I'm interested to know if you have had any counselling or therapy to help with being the survivor of a narc mother. This might be a good resource to start with - howtokillanarcissist.com/narcissistic-mother-healing/

• follow the learning path that feels right for you, & start working on valuing yourself - ALL your relationships, old & new, will benefit from it!

@Windingroad21

Can anyone offer any words before I crack and send them both furious messages 😂

Yes. Send them :)

@Windingroad21

Tell me about it! That’s how I feel right now- not replying. It’s a game of control and I’m determined that I’m the one who holds it. I’ve found in the last few months I’ve been such a people pleaser and it’s like a light has gone on and I’m saying fuck off, no way now

I’ve been speaking to a brilliant therapist about this in general, and will pick up with her tomorrow on all of this.

I mean this kindly Winding, but I hope your therapist helps you discuss this more rationally tomorrow.

There is NO POINT in playing passive-aggressive games with narcs & users.
You are serving no one - least of all yourself - by "saying fuck off, no way" in your head, & expecting other people to mind read you.

Just send a quick text telling the friend & your mother to stop mithering you, because you are having some time offline & will call them when YOU are ready. (Then don't call - but at least let them know you are alive).

I genuinely understand your drive to not respond, because that feels like control to you at the moment. But proper control would be to say how you feel, mean it, & expect your feelings to be respected.

Try it - it's a life-changer xx

@Windingroad21

I’ve made a mistake. Thought I should text my mother (fear, obligation, guilt) and she’s replied asking me to justify my disrespect towards my mother.

I’m sitting here in floods of tears; because I knew this would happen and it would be made out to be my fault, and also that I didn’t do anything wrong other than be a complete fool again.

I’m so angry and frustrated at myself. She’s narcissistically used this as an opportunity to promote her position, somehow.

I’m such an idiot.

Oh I am sorry, but listen - you have NOT made a mistake. Your mother can only manipulate you if you respond - so don't. She knows you are alive, & she's not concerned about your feelings, only about cementing her own position.

I'd be tempted to text back that you'll give her respect when she's earned it, & then block - but up to you how much you feel you can manage.

Just block the bitch until you feel better, & then block her some more :)

Been taking all these replies in, so many thanks to you all for taking the time to come back to me and share your own experiences, which I know aren’t easy.

@Perriwinkles we are both mugs no more

@ChargingBuck you’re so right about both. It was only ever self serving to them, and a convenient friendship for them. There was no reciprocity. I am currently receiving counselling and beginning to explore the issues in relationships and my mother. Thank you for the link, I will check it out. I had my session with the counsellor the other day and have another one in about 10. My first reaction is to retreat and reflect. I’m of course keen to ignore the drama and BS, but I will confront it, eventually, in my own time and when I feel comfortable. I don’t think it would matter how firm I was, these people have little respect for my needs anyway, so in many ways it may be fruitless and if anything, cause me more stress. I get what you’re saying but right now I’m really trying to look after my MH. Of course in future I will absolutely approach things differently and I’m fairly confident it will yield different results

I’m of course keen to ignore the drama and BS, but I will confront it, eventually, in my own time and when I feel comfortable.

Very, very wise.

One of the hardest things about dealing with my own familial "Cluster-B personality disordered" people was how they can never accept another person's viewpoint, or place themselves in the wrong.
Sometimes it is easier, & certainly simpler, to just withdraw.

You will never receive validation, or an admission of guilt, from friend A or your mother, & this might be a topic you would benefit from raising with your therapist.

Well done again for your insight, & for making yourself "the worm that turned". One of the things that helps me is - when I catch myself ruminating (OCD unwelcome thought processes, common in adult survivors of childhood abuse) overmuch on stuff I can't change & is only distressing me, is to change the focus. Instead of thinking about the past, & people who deep down don't give a fuck about me - I start planning positive experiences or treats for myself.

It felt weird at first (how dare I be so self-centred!) but ... it isn't.
It's human, & normal - & you, dear Winding, have the rest of your life left to fill with good things, positive thoughts, & rewarding people & experiences. Once you remove most, or even all, of the negative draining interactions with unpleasant people, you will find time to enrich yourself, & develop trusting relationships with decent people. Given your background, you owe that to yourself, & you are right - your DH cannot be your sole source of "good person" in your life: that's not fair on either of you.

So get planning! If you are creative, get a drawing book & start depicting what you want out of life. If you are hamfisted like me, get a beautiful notebook to fill up with dreams & ambitions - they can be as small as you like ... it's a way of turning all the fear & negativity engendered in you by your mother into positive resolutions to better your personal circumstances & start filling your life with regular doses of joy.

Very good luck to you :)

Thank you for your lovely wirds@ChargingBuck

It’s so true that I seek out validation in everything- a lifetime of being a servant and not getting it, I guess.

I find it very yelling at ‘A’, despite all her manic calling, texts and reaching out to my mother never did bother responding to my text sent two days ago. Says it all. She’s made it all about her- again. Let her be I say.

What kind of positive experiences have you undertaken? I’m not very creative, so looking for ideas. Sounds great!

So over a week has passed since I stupidly replied to A and mother.

I know I shouldn’t be surprised or feel this way as I should be relieved, but I’m so bloody disappointed in A after all her drama at trying to get hold of me that once I did call it out and state she does this often, what’s the big deal, she seems to have turned it on me and has not replied at all.

I can’t rationalise why I feel this way. Aggrieved/ sad/ angry/ frustrated?

Any ideas/ wise words?

My only words of wisdom are counselling.
I had a friend a best friend similar to your friend A. She always called herself my bear friend. One day about 3 months ago I looked up and yet again she had invited herself to stay. Yet again she had failed to show up and I just thought - you know what I have had counselling for 8 weeks over my abusive parents and you need to realise she A is also abusive albeit in a different way. I called her out on it - I sent a message saying actually you are doing what you always do saying you are coming to stay and inviting yourself and I run around like a blue arsed fly to accommodate you and then literally the morning of the visit she sends a text cancelling - how is that respectful ? Not even a call. Then I discussed it with my counsellor I haven’t been invited to her house for 10 years - how did that happen? I’m just a free holiday home. So I called her out on it sent her a message saying over the last 20 years you don’t return my calls but expect me to return yours. You expect to come and stay with 24 hours notice but you don’t invite me etc you cancel same invitation within hours of arriving ruining our plans and actually you are not doing this any more it’s hurtful and disrespectful. As wise mumsnet says no is a complete sentence. A text saying you need to pick me up at 2 to take me to the hospital- your response no. If she asks again just say no. Get some real friends. The last few months have been life changing I asked locally if any one wanted to do the coach 2 5 K I now have a running group. A nice mum was dropping her child off at club and I was and I got chatting and then said - look I know this is a bit of a strange thing but I’ve just moved her can I take your number and we Will do a play date - she and I have met several times - but make sure it is balanced and not one way. I organised one play date she organised the next etc

why are you sad?

perhaps because you knew in your head that she's a user but you still hoped with your heart that she felt affection for you and wanted to reach out, and then there would be a proper reciprocal friendship.

Grief for a friendship and for lost illusions is a real thing.

But there are much much better people than your ex friend, people who have great personalities and great underlying characters. I hope you find some soon ... you may need to reprogram yourself a bit, since your parents instilled grotty expectations in you from young. But it can be done!

What kind of positive experiences have you undertaken?

Oh - so varied!

From the tiny - "I'm feeling down/oppressed by sad thoughts, I will take a walk in nature" - to the larger "I will save up & go on a massive holiday" - to writing my thoughts down/writing poetry - arranging to see friends - comedy shows - going to evening classes - learning more about subjects that interest me, like dog training, womens' rights, psychology - to sitting in front of a fire watching something fab from David Attenborough ...

The transformation comes when you start noticing these large & small joys. Hence - NOTEBOOK! - buy one with a wonderful cover, so you get all the benefit of someone else's creativity - this may not be your style, but get something that 'speaks' to you - www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1441329420/?psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it_im&coliid=I3ABAZSIHEI2Z5&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&colid=30G26UXED36O1

& start noting what makes you happy.
Once you do that, you can start scheduling happiness.
Your validation can come from yourself - not other people, especially not toxic ones!

@Windingroad21

So over a week has passed since I stupidly replied to A and mother.

I know I shouldn’t be surprised or feel this way as I should be relieved, but I’m so bloody disappointed in A after all her drama at trying to get hold of me that once I did call it out and state she does this often, what’s the big deal, she seems to have turned it on me and has not replied at all.

I can’t rationalise why I feel this way. Aggrieved/ sad/ angry/ frustrated?

Any ideas/ wise words?

Dear Winding, there is NO need to rationalise your feelings! They are entirely valid, & you are allowed to feel them.

Here's something that might help:
Decide on a small activity that makes you happy.
Then go somewhere outside of the house.
Now sit with your feelings about A & your mother.
Allow yourself to recollect how enraging they are, how selfish, entitled, two-faced & hypocritical.
Feel aggrieved, sad, angry & frustrated.
Let it all come, let it be a catharsis of intense feeling.
Then - when you have had enough of - & that needn't take very long at all - shake yourself down (literally - SHAKE - it is how animals rid their bodies of things they do not like feeling). *
Stand up tall, stretch, & go & do the happy activity you have already thought of & mapped out for yourself.

And next time you think of A - block her.
She adds no value to your life, & sucks all the joy out of you - because she likes using you, & having power over you.
Take back your power. It couldn't be simpler. BLOCK!
It's like a witch's spell, that block button :)

• • shaking - TRE Therapy - proven to reduce symptoms of PTSD - traumaprevention.com/what-is-tre/

@2021V2

Yay!

You are a living, breathing example of taking your power back.
Cutting your using frenemy out of your life is what gave you the space & impetus to make new friends.

Bloody good on you!

I can’t rationalise why I feel this way. Aggrieved/ sad/ angry/ frustrated?

You probably feel you need an apology, or some kind of an explanation or acknowledgement of what she's been like from her. It's natural. But you know deep down that your former freind is never going to give you any of these things. I don't think you will ever get the closure you want, as she's not a nice person - she's a very selfish user.

You should probably prepare yourself for the possibility that she'll go quiet, wait for a while and try to summon you to do her bidding again, as if nothing had ever happened. Starting with texts, then calls, then maybe your mother again. For this reason, block her (former friend) on everything, no exceptions, so you don't even know she's trying it on again.

Sorry, I don't think this is going to help much.

I agree with this too!

I’m careful in my new friendships as I’m on look out as I now understand what is happening. I don’t like confrontation,I’m a people pleaser due to seriously abusive parents on every level. And people not just relationships ‘test’ you to work out what sort of person you are!!!

So for example one of the mums in the year group asked for an item in a group WhatsApp chat. I said I had it and of course she could have it for free. She agreed to collect it at 6 pm one evening - did this privately. I shifted around mealtime etc she didn’t show - no message nothing etc and still 24 hours later nothing absolutely nothing. I will give her the benefit of the doubt if she turns up with an apology and collects over the next few days. But I will not chase her to pick it up or volunteer to drop it off I won’t do it. When she next posts wanting help I won’t reply to it. Watch what people do -not what they say. My ‘best’ friend said she was my sister and would die for me etc she was telling me she loved me and I was her sister but what she showed me for 30 years is she isn’t doing what she says I don’t want a sister like that. The relationship left me empty as she was a saying stuff but not following through. So game over.

I expect some people to reject me and I expect some people to act out but I need to take control and watch for it. I’m not unkind. If this mum that was supposed to collect the free item and says ‘my mum phoned straight after and said my dad needed to go to hospital and apologies’ etc that is ok and I understand but if there is radio silence I will avoid her like the plague from now on - civil yes but lesson learnt.

It’s called boundaries and learning what a healthy relationship is

If you're a people pleaser your natural thing would be to do all the running and make all the effort. Or you make excuses for the other persons poor behaviour. Instead you need to look out for their actions not words.
It's easy to say I can do that or we can do that but unless they are willing to meet you when they say they would or book the restaurant ect it shows the priority you have with them.

I had several people who I regarded as friends in the past and over time I lost contact with them due to various reasons. In some cases I just decided to stop making the effort and to see what the other person would do. I then found out nothing.

I found that during the whole covid situation I was making the effort to keep in contact with people. Since things have been getting back to normal I have had one friend give me a lot of excuses when I ask to meet them or to go places. I have decided to give them till X date to make some effort. After that date I will be pulling them up re their behaviour.

I was recently let down very badly by someone and rather than let it go I told them a few home truths. The reality for this person is that over the past few years they have burnt bridges with a lot of people. They are now going to have to seek help in dealing with their issues otherwise no one will be there for them.

Friends that only find you when you are of use to them or use you until someone better comes along are not friends but users. Have the ability to spot the users can take some of us a long time. It's hard dealing with the fallout of poor so called friends/parents but you can move on to better friendship when you remember the mistakes you made in the past and not to repeat them.

So many thanks to all of you who replied and helped me feel validated. I realise I’ve issues around this (in counselling) but this really is a fantastic community and has been here for me when I’ve wondered ‘is it me’!

@Ijsbear
@2021V2 I’m really sorry about your experience, that was really shit of your friend. Keep the running up, sounds like you’re cracking it and it will be a 10K in no time!!

@ijsbear yes, I think you’re right, I was looking for her to come back and apologise, as unrealistic and naive as that sounds.

@ChargingBuck I’m watching the Mare of Easttown tonight, heading for a long walk tomorrow and watching that link you sent me. Intend on shaking all this off and seeing how I feel. It’s sad the longer time passes, but I suppose it’s living with a new normal. I’ve been so so lucky DP is here. Also found out I’m being made redundant today, never rains but it pours eh 😂

@llady sorry to read you’ve had similar. That’s rubbish having to set a date to confront it, but I totally get the need to. In future I will be doing just that now that I’m getting these boundaries right firmed up. My ‘friend’ A was nothing but I user it seems, I made excuses for her and ran when she jumped but no more. Sounds like your ex friend who was always looking for people to fix her shit.

Also found out I’m being made redundant today, never rains but it pours eh

Aaaaw pants! - but sometimes, yes, things happen all at once - & it's only some time after the events we can start to construct a narrative around them. This is the start of a new chapter, & you have some breathing space to take stock before you relaunch yourself into your next job. As much as you are able, view it as an adventure, an opportunity to meet new people, have new experiences, & capitalise on the changes :)

Help.. I’m feeling guilty again with Df birthday looming.. should I send a card/ gift? Real issue with DM.

So far, she’s followed the classic narcissist ‘script’; texting things to ‘hook’ me.. and when I’ve not responded to her ‘did you hear about my brother’ messages, it’s ‘I take it you don’t know what’s happened since you don’t reply’.. so many bloody games and no, I’ve not replied!

Do you actually want to send a card to your dad? I think it hinges on that.

If it's duty, then it may be better not to. A card will redouble the texts from your mum. But if you yourself want to send a card to your dad, then it's worth the likely text-increase.

I think I do. I just feel so, so sad about the situation and I’m crying all the time as I feel so alone and lonely. Thank you for replying, by the way.

it is horrendously lonely when your eyes start being opened. When you jump to your parents' tune you sort of feel that if you're good enough you will gain acceptance, comfort and a place within a family. When the dissonance between what you long for and what -is- becomes great enough and you see that the family you long for isn't there ... it is intensely lonely.

Over time it gets better, slowly, though the sting never goes away. But it lessens ... and there is a cleanness about facing the facts. it's harder, but healthier, when you realise that before you were living a sort of hopeful lie.

Have you got any support in real life? emotional support? I hope so lovely.

Also some counselling may help if you have a good click with the counsellor, if you can access it. It's a safe space (with the right counsellor) and you can talk about these very very hard things in a way you can't with anyone else.

Be easy on yourself