Dumped by 16 min rambling voice note

[StartingAgain33]

I'm so angry, mostly with myself, as a big part of me has felt this guy is full of red flags, even from the beginning, but I didn't listen to myself and instead got swayed by friends and even my therapist saying he sounded nice!! I have let this go on for NINE MONTHS. I was going to dump him tomorrow after a couple of weeks of terrible, one sided communication on his part but I wanted to do in person or on the phone so it could be friendly, dignified and equal. However he has got in early and, as ever, not given me a chance to have a voice. I'm not sure I have energy to reply, but I also feel like saying some really nasty things.

Reasons I should have ended this sooner:

• love bombed me at beginning, I felt pushed into being sexual too early and also his declarations were intense and way too soon
• he hadn't had a relationship in over 10 years and said his exes had done / said terrible things to him including insults that he was 'weird' and 'didn't listen to them
• he backtracked four months in and said we needed to put on the breaks as was moving too fast. When I pointed out it was HIM making these statements (he had suggested getting a flat together the previous week and I'd said no!) he gaslit me and said I had led the commitment conversations (I definitely had not, though I did let myself get swept away which I feel stupid about)
• he was generally emotionally unstable, swinging from one mood to the next, I want to be with you for the rest of my life one minute and then saying he's struggling with the idea of ever moving to my part of London the next (not that I'd asked him to!!). Also, the past few weeks he has gone from streams of angry texts about nothing to then voice notes where he acts like everything is normal and he would 'love to see me' that Saturday for his friends birthday?!
• he seemed obsessed with idea I was controlling him. If I had an emotion, and was upset, and explained it in an adult way, this was 'controlling' him and I was drawing him 'into my emotional playground'
• he was very insensitive and terrible at any kind of emotional validation. He was shit when my uncle died for instance, just changed the subject as made him feel unconfy
• apparently I am too emotional and he can't give me what I need, yet he stores up grievances, has big angry outbursts and can't resolve a disagreement without huge statements/ hours and hours of talking at me till I'm so exhausted I can't do anything but sit back and take it (this is unlike me, I'm usually good at being assertive)

Does he have bpd or something?

He made me feel insecure, like I was going mad with all the gaslighting and like I had done something really wrong for him to back off when he was keen on me at first. I know these are classic signs, so why did I stay? I even convinced myself he was autistic to make his behaviour ok (I do actually this he is). He didn't seem very narcissistic as he had poor self esteem. He reeled me in with his self pity and sob stories about his controlling mother and cruel exes (despite the fact he is Cambridge educated, earns £100k+ and is very good looking).

Now ex could probably tell I was going to end things in person today so got in first. The voice note was about how he just 'can't meet my needs' and 'no one he's ever been out with has had so many needs' for 'emotional validation'. It has made me feel like I am 'too much' and like shit, despite knowing he is a knob.

This is the latest in a string of knobs where I am ignoring gut instinct and trying to make things work. I find it hard to tell what is acceptable or not (although this guy massively takes the biscuit - none of my exes were like this and I have always had amicable respectful breakups).

I am starting to panic as I am almost 37 and want kids. So feel I should get back on dating scene, but just don't have the energy and I know I need to take some time out after this. I have frozen 28 eggs at 35 (apparently over 90% chance of a live birth with todays technology) so potentially have a backup plan.

Any advice, and also hand holding, welcome. Please not too much telling off. I am feeling like such an idiot as it is.

Thanks so much @spongebobjudgeypants, I think tbh my therapist is probably reflecting at me my own self doubts and worries there are something wrong with me. I even went to him last week asking if I had bpd as the things ex were saying about me were quite extreme and therapist said no, definitely not, but sounds like ex maybe does. Anyway doesn't matter I guess.

If anyone has a good female therapist recommendation please let me know!

I have considered single parenting but I don't want a child enough - yet. It's also not really practically possible, dont think I have the right financial setup. The good thing about freezing is that my chances of pregnancies with the eggs will likely not change at all even through my 40s - the success rate aligns with the age of the eggs, not the mother (hence why people post menopause can carry a child). Obviously I wouldn't want to leave it too late but I think panicking about age is maybe a bit silly when i have frozen myself in time somewhat, with a good number of eggs. I'll never know till they are used but that's the same with any conception, and I have been pregnant twice before (by accident, I was in my 20s and not ready) which is an excellent sign.

A good therapist will do a 'reality check' thing to establish whether it's your insecurities or a wankbadger partner that is the most likely cause of the problems. This doesn't sound like it has happened? I'm oversimplifying, but it sounds like there was maybe a longer version of you saying "Is it me, this problem" and your therapist saying "Well he sounds like a top bloke, so it's probably you". There are feminist counsellors out there. They may not be called that exactly, but if you can find one, lots of this stuff can be done on Zoom, which wasn't an option years ago. Might be worth a go, even as a one off? Their attitude is that many problems are connected with the way society sees and treats women, and can not be adressed while treating women and men as entirely on a level playing field. Does that make sense to you? Might be worth a google before you decide.

Hm, I think therapist was trying to do a reality check definitely but was often just as confused as me as there was always conflicting info and I have a tendancy to always see the other person's side, self-blame etc. I'm not sure he could have done better as it is confusing?

He is actually quite feminist; definitely gets it on that front. But he hasn't lived the experience of being a woman, and probably isn't quite sure how to navigate it. Also he is attachment-based, so will always zone in on individuals' attachment styles instead of maybe thinking more systemically about the entire scenario. I know he thinks I need a secure person tho, and ex was clearly not secure, and when I said that he should have said well then move on, but instead he always seemed to have hope / would say no one is perfect, can fit into categories etc. and that we were triggering eachothers' insecurities (ie we were as bad as eachother, when I really don't think we were!)

Also I did say that I maybe should use the pandemic to be single for a bit as I haven't had lots of single time for ages but he was saying there is no shame in wanting / needing a relationship (ie having anxious attachment). But I still think I need this.

@SpongeBobJudgeyPants do you mind pointing me to the Shark Theory info? I found a blog on Psychology Today but not sure it's the right thing?

I can't acess the stuff I originally read, which gave a very succinct paragraph on it. It may have been linked from MN, so I don't know if that's worth an Advanced Search. The only thing I can find , which isn't a podcast, or something about real sharks, is this, which may be what you have already, but it is the right stuff, just a longer more complicated read. I think it's worth it, but looks like it needs more concentration.
here

Thanks @SpongeBobJudgeyPants that's the one I found, was very useful. I think I got habituated to abusive dynamics slowly without realising, so I didnt trust my instincts anymore. Will also do an advanced search.

Ok, think you might have to pay for the podcast, not sure. That's what happened in my life, abusive parenting, crap boundaries, open to more abuse and not recognising for years that it was abuse.There's also the boiling lobster (crab?) idea. You don't put it in boiling water immediately, so it gets used to the water, which is heated gradually, and doesn't recognise it's being boiled to death.

@tenredthings

Send a text with just a thumbs up emoji and block. Sounds like you are well rid !

This.

Well rid.

@SpongeBobJudgeyPants - do you mean the Shark Cage? Lots of useful information available via google, e.g.:-

www.oomm.live/the-shark-cage-metaphor-spotting-potential-abusers/

This makes total sense. I was sexually abused as a child and grew up in a home with very unhealthy relationship model. So I think I am reasonably easy prey (although I've had nice boyfriends in the past, I think my boundaries have come down in the past few years).

I will be investigating with my therapist whether this is something we can tackle together, but my sense is I need a woman who gets it a bit more than he does and sees how this is playing out on the wider world stage rather than always going back to my attachment patterns.

@SpongeBobJudgeyPants what you say makes about feminist counselling makes a lot of sense to me.

I never went looking for that but my therapist is about 15 years younger than I am and I never feel like I'm trying too hard to explain myself.

I suppose I'm preparing myself for life as a single older woman (who might be perceived to be quite low status?) and it's not something that I think men will have to experience in the same way. A man of my age (51) would still be seen as a good date. I am employed, stable, I've no debts, addictions, convictions, cats! A man in these circumstances could go in to the world with a lot of expectation and optimism, and I would want a therapist to understand that although I am optimistic about my future as an older single woman, it's going to be a different experience for a woman of 51 than it would be for a man of 51.

I want to be kind to myself and be brave but I do not want to be used to serve somebody else's agenda and I'm not pushing water up hill to conform to any societal norms but at the same time I don't want to be excluded from any opportunities because I'm single/average/older.

It's a difficult maze to navigate and I want a female therapist.

@FlowerArranger Yes. I missed out the cage big, that's a useful link, which I have bookmarked. @StartingAgain33 look at Flower's link. It may well cover some of the same ground as the other one we both found, I don't have the bandwidth to check, but worth a look too.

@PearlNextDoor I hear you. I'm a chunk older than you, and actually met my current DH round about your age. If I should ever find myself single again, or widowed (which may well be possible given his health) I would probably remain single, but hope that I could get some feminist counselling to make sense of some stuff.

Thanks for getting it!

One of the problems I had @PearlNextDoor was a lot of the blokes in the dating pool wanted (and felt quite entitled to) much younger women. So I was 50, and the 50 yr olds were generally looking for slim 35-40 yr olds whilst often being fat old bores themselves

Yes, I hear you, I can't muster up the energy to wade through that beer bellied entitlement. I decided that looking for somebody was making me unhappy/lonely. Being single wasn't what was making me unhappy so it made sense to me to stop.

In a perfect World, I'd meet somebody, but I feel that if that happens, it won't be a man I met online!

Beer bellied entitlement

@PearlNextDoor it is so crap for women as there is truly a dearth of decent men it seems at that age who have fair expectations, but you sound like you have exactly the right attitude and are going to make a success of things without the need for someone else. I am going to take a leaf from your book. We need more single older women owning their statuses and not feeling ashamed. All you've done is filter out the crap that maybe others will have put up with. No shame in that!

Only on page 3 but I'm getting confused between the red flags for the ex and the red flags for the therapist.

Haha. Oh dear. Session with him today, don't know where to start!

The feminist counselling sounds great.

When it comes to any GP/therapist I think it is very important that you find someone who meets you where you are at.

And if you have a male GP as I have, he needs to exhibit major self awareness anout womens issues and be very empathetic or quickly dumped.

Start by hanging up the phone!
'Oh fuck, not you again!' click

*ah wait you probably meant the therapist.

Everything you've written screams covert narcissist. Read up on that. Everything will fall into place and you'll see your relationship with this man for what it was.