Dumped by 16 min rambling voice note

[StartingAgain33]

I'm so angry, mostly with myself, as a big part of me has felt this guy is full of red flags, even from the beginning, but I didn't listen to myself and instead got swayed by friends and even my therapist saying he sounded nice!! I have let this go on for NINE MONTHS. I was going to dump him tomorrow after a couple of weeks of terrible, one sided communication on his part but I wanted to do in person or on the phone so it could be friendly, dignified and equal. However he has got in early and, as ever, not given me a chance to have a voice. I'm not sure I have energy to reply, but I also feel like saying some really nasty things.

Reasons I should have ended this sooner:

• love bombed me at beginning, I felt pushed into being sexual too early and also his declarations were intense and way too soon
• he hadn't had a relationship in over 10 years and said his exes had done / said terrible things to him including insults that he was 'weird' and 'didn't listen to them
• he backtracked four months in and said we needed to put on the breaks as was moving too fast. When I pointed out it was HIM making these statements (he had suggested getting a flat together the previous week and I'd said no!) he gaslit me and said I had led the commitment conversations (I definitely had not, though I did let myself get swept away which I feel stupid about)
• he was generally emotionally unstable, swinging from one mood to the next, I want to be with you for the rest of my life one minute and then saying he's struggling with the idea of ever moving to my part of London the next (not that I'd asked him to!!). Also, the past few weeks he has gone from streams of angry texts about nothing to then voice notes where he acts like everything is normal and he would 'love to see me' that Saturday for his friends birthday?!
• he seemed obsessed with idea I was controlling him. If I had an emotion, and was upset, and explained it in an adult way, this was 'controlling' him and I was drawing him 'into my emotional playground'
• he was very insensitive and terrible at any kind of emotional validation. He was shit when my uncle died for instance, just changed the subject as made him feel unconfy
• apparently I am too emotional and he can't give me what I need, yet he stores up grievances, has big angry outbursts and can't resolve a disagreement without huge statements/ hours and hours of talking at me till I'm so exhausted I can't do anything but sit back and take it (this is unlike me, I'm usually good at being assertive)

Does he have bpd or something?

He made me feel insecure, like I was going mad with all the gaslighting and like I had done something really wrong for him to back off when he was keen on me at first. I know these are classic signs, so why did I stay? I even convinced myself he was autistic to make his behaviour ok (I do actually this he is). He didn't seem very narcissistic as he had poor self esteem. He reeled me in with his self pity and sob stories about his controlling mother and cruel exes (despite the fact he is Cambridge educated, earns £100k+ and is very good looking).

Now ex could probably tell I was going to end things in person today so got in first. The voice note was about how he just 'can't meet my needs' and 'no one he's ever been out with has had so many needs' for 'emotional validation'. It has made me feel like I am 'too much' and like shit, despite knowing he is a knob.

This is the latest in a string of knobs where I am ignoring gut instinct and trying to make things work. I find it hard to tell what is acceptable or not (although this guy massively takes the biscuit - none of my exes were like this and I have always had amicable respectful breakups).

I am starting to panic as I am almost 37 and want kids. So feel I should get back on dating scene, but just don't have the energy and I know I need to take some time out after this. I have frozen 28 eggs at 35 (apparently over 90% chance of a live birth with todays technology) so potentially have a backup plan.

Any advice, and also hand holding, welcome. Please not too much telling off. I am feeling like such an idiot as it is.

I think also I have gotten distracted by the hypothesis my myself and my therapist that I have an anxious / avoidant attachment style (ie there is something wrong with me for being unsure about these men). But I wasn't wanting to push him away when he was being loving at first, only when he was being unstable and inconsistent which made me feel insecure. So maybe my attachment style is actually fine, but my picker isn't!!!

''And I couldn't share anything stressful without him taking over. Zero ability to listen.''

Yupp, a conversation where one person speaks, the other person listens, considers what they've heard and responds appropriately............ Not everybody can participate in that sort of active listening. It's easier to send a sixteen minute long voice note when you're not really in to listening

I'm nearly typing in smiley faces here because he just sounds so awful.

I personally wouldn’t block, as I’d like to see what ridiculous move he pulls next. When I dumped my psychopath ex I left everything open as it gave me more strength in ignoring him. So long as you don’t feel bereft when inevitably his messages stop!

What sweet relief to be free from this nightmare! None of it is your fault OP, he’s just a hot mess and projected it all onto you!

Your therapist can only advise based on what you told them. Did you tell them that this guy was nice etc, or did you tell them of how he actually is? If the first you need to be more honest with the therapist so they can guide you wisely, if the latter, then get a new therapist as that one is no good.
Re your friends supporting the relationship, was he acting all nicey nicey around them, so that they didn't see the side you saw?

Alan Robarge (on youtube) has a good clip about how to become securely attached when you're not in a relationship.

Brianna McWilliams also has a lot on youtube about attachment styles.

he almost starts prompting

No no no no no!

I wonder if part of the problem is that you've noticed all the red flags but your therapist has had opinions and that's part of why you've doubted yourself.

Therapists are supposed to use their knowledge, expertise and experience to help you come to your own conclusions.

They're not there to prompt, become invested in your relationship or be your friend.

[quote StartingAgain33]@Aalvarino sadly he wasn't even charismatic. He was actually pretty bloody boring. Would drone on for ages about the same thing.

I know I'm better off if only because I don't have to listen to his dreadful moaning anymore.

He didn't even ever joke, or get my jokes. He exploded at me after I ribbed him a few times in one day as he just didn't get it.

Weird[/quote]
Well rid OP!

I agree about dumping the therapist too.

Agree with PPs that you need to sack your therapist.

Also that you must not reply to his voice note and need to go totally NC and block him on everything. You are still obsessing over him way too much.

And I would also suggest, once you have a new therapist, that you may want to explore the possibility that a family may not happen for you and be okay with this. I'm not saying that your chances are low, or that you should stop looking for a partner. However, if you accept the possibility of not meeting 'the one' and remaining childless, you won't obsess about it so much, you'll be able to think more clearly and feel more in control. And hopefully less likely to fall for another unsuitable man and waste more time.

I would also suggest that you read Women Who Love Too Much and The Six Pillars of Self Esteem.

You definitely dodged a bullet there! Do not reply and block him. He will be so pissed off to not had a reaction, he'll never have that natural closure.

I think an ability to feel in control enough to pace a relationship is key here.

I've been in your shoes where I felt, but I like this guy. And your gut instinct is that because you like him you don't want to ''reject'' him by slowing him down. You don't want to risk losing him by insisting on your pace.

That's still a fear of losing him. It's still anxious attachment style.

If you were more secure you'd be coming from a place of ''Well, it doesn't suit me to move that fast so I'm not moving that fast.''

He didn't seem very narcissistic as he had poor self esteem

Covert or vulnerable narcissist people appear like this...very common to think ASD (hoping that communication can be resolved) but later you realise his intent is not positive.

The clues here are victim stance, abusive childhood, lack of empathy, constant focus on his needs, anger when you express your needs and his reaction to feeling shamed.

Silence is the best response. Please don't re-engage as there is no chance you will "win". He has years of experience and perfected his communication so that his ego is protected. It will always be someone else's fault.

Narcisstic people are attracted to people who have value (you have to have positive attributes to attract them) so it isn't you however you may need to trust yourself and react quicker to instinct or red flags. Do you give men too many chances, benefit of the doubt?

The relationship fell apart once you got firmer about your boundaries so that's a great sign. He can't tolerate you standing up for yourself so had to devalue you by blaming you. That's why you feel so confused.

As you get older the risk of toxic people is higher as those with secure attachments tend to stay in relationships however there are men around who are now single because an earlier relationship didn't work out. All the cliches are true...do they have negative relationship with ex's, can they handle you saying No, can they show they take responsibility, are they able to reflect on their behaviour without painting themselves as a victim?

Keep going but be ruthless on applying your knowledge about red flags..I know a couple who got together in their late 30s. They are really happy so it can happen.

Oh god you had a lucky escape. I had 4 years with someone like that. I'd be tempted not to reply as silence speaks volumes. Just block forever. Or you might want closure with one final text not that he deserves that. Do not panic about your age. I am 41 and happy and relaxed and hopeful. Yes I sob and grieve but I've done a lot of work on looking past it (see Gateway Women), that is what has bought me peace. I made a decision recently that I could let worry and anxiety stay with me until I'm post menopause, say 55, or I could focus on living a good life for the next 15 years which I hope has children in it, but either way it will be good.

Someone else already mentioned the Dumped By Text thread. It was such a lesson for us all I think. The OP never did respond to the text and her ex wound himself in knots over it.
Big hugs @StartingAgain33 it's always so painful! Best wishes for the future.

''I am also going to talk to him about my perception (justified or not) that he thinks that I should have children to be happy (I know he has three). No idea if he really does but that's the impression I have.''

I hope you don't feel under the microscope here, but you say the above. I think you need to check out of caring what your therapist thinks.

The focus of your therapy should be what do you think? What conclusions are you coming to?

In a relationship do you seek approval? Because you sound like you need your therapist to agree/approve

He is just some guy sitting there helping you to figure out what you want. Right?

But somehow, the focus is on what will he think? Does he think a woman needs to have DC to be happy? Does he see through this through the eyes of a man dating 37 year olds? Would he be put off?

You're too attuned to what he makes of it all.

If you're starting to entertain thoughts around children not being the only path to fulfillment/happiness then that's really positive! It's a gear shift, and it's brave to entertain and explore these thoughts!

These realisations will empower you. (imo)

What other ways to fulfillment outside of a relationship are there? There are a million and one books about self-esteem and attachment styles out there and most of them are excellent. But I suggest, tentatively! that you read Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic and Ken Robinson's The element. Both of those books will help you tap in to your 'flow'.

I don't think there's any statistical evidence that having children is the only or the best way to be happy and fulfilled. So letting go of the fear of never having children is a sign that your bravery is coming to the fore.

But don't ignore those quiet brave voices by getting all caught up in what your therapist thinks.

Also boundaries with your therapist are blurred. It's not therapy as he should be coaching you to trust your instinct.

He also doesn't seem to have knowledge on toxic people. That's very common as most therapists are not trained in disordered personalities, perhaps because they don't often show up for therapy and currently there is no effective treatment.

@StartingAgain33 I just googled Dumped by text mumsnet and the thread came up. It will give you strength

Well done on not wasting years on this loser. I dated major losers for years. Plural. I met my now DH at 37/38 and had a child at 41.
When I look back I regret wasting all that time, so I’m pleased you already have the measure of this man and aren’t going to take too long to get over him. Next!

You have been investing a lot of thought in this man. How about just telling yourself that he clearly has some issues or another, but it is not your problem what they are, as you want nothing to do with him anyway?

I'd write back something like "Sounds like you are having a hard time, hope things work out better for you in future".

Then find a new therapist. The current one is indeed so unprofessional that it makes me wonder if he actually fancies you himself. (The lack of professionalism would put me off him if he was single, though!)

You've dodged a bullet op.
Ignore or block and move on ,dont give anymore thought and that will get under his skin more than anything.

@ravenmum that's interesting about whether he fancies me. Why would you think that? I have noticed he maybe enjoys joking and talking with me a bit too much and seems v fond of me

You need to NOT CARE whether he fancies you or not.

What are you paying this guy? #60 per hour?
So, for that 60 per hour, you're getting a bit of a frisson from pondering whether or not he might be attracted to you.

Check right out of that thought.

That's not worth 60 per hour.

I agree, change therapist, go to a female therapist.

You won't be unconsciously seeking the female therapist's approval in the same way.

Although there's always 'confusions' going on. To begin with, I thought that my therapist would think my problems were all very trivial. But of course, that's because my family think my feelings are of no importance while they instruct me to consider theirs. So I'm not saying I'm immune to this issue.

But think you might be better off with a female therapist, less scope for transference when you're basically looking for a ''family man'' and he's sitting opposite you and you know he has three dc.

I actually know nothing about my therapist. I don't know if she's single. She might have a child. It would seem inappropriate to ask and she hasn't told me.

That seems to work better for me. I feel I'm making progress.

Do you feel you're making progress with your therapy/?

It can be hard to end a relationship with your therapist!!!! Especially when you're anxiously attached. So be aware of that.

Well, it could also be that he's just a rubbish therapist with everyone, but if it's just you he's so unprofessional with - so "invested" that he can't do his job properly, such a great "rapport" that he forgets he's not meant to be your friend, then I'd wonder.

It doesn't sound like it's very professional.

And you're quite eager that it is something more, aren't you?

You've been in an incredibly unsuitable relationship and stuck it out despite the red flags, and now you're getting excited about the notion your therapist is interested in you sexually, when actually that's crossing professional boundaries and unhealthy.

I feel like you also had abusive relationships previously, haven't advanced searched you, but your username rings a bell?

You really need to get a new therapist and do a lot of work on boundaries.

can I recommend the fabulous Alan Robarge

I've listened to hours of these.

After my marriage ended I had a momentary crush on a doctor. I was vulnerable and unhappy and he was good-looking and nice, and sorted out a medical issue that had been bothering me for years. It's easy when you're vulnerable to swoon over the knight in a shining white coat. You sound very vulnerable.