New Partner- Extreme religious views

[IceLace100]

I need your views Mumsnet!

I went on a second date with a guy today. He was so lovely we got on amazingly well and had a lovely time.

HOWEVER!

On the way home he said he had to tell me about some 'baggage', he used to be dead religious meaning-

• he used to want to be a vicar

• he thought gay people and gay marriage etc was morally wrong

• he thought abortion was wrong

• he didn't believe in sex before marriage and didn't have sex until he was 31 (34 now and I'm 33 if this matters)

He said he changed his views in 2014, and he seemed thoroughly ashamed. Since then he had amended his ways and now donates to gay charities and has taken part in pride, is pro choice etc.

He said he told me so that I had the choice of whether to continue seeing him again because it put some women off.

Not to drip feed but I am bisexual, very liberal, have had lots of sex with no regrets and very open! I am a strong feminist and pro choice (step mum is a gyne who performs abortions). I am a firm atheist and have good LGBT friends and a trans sister!

His previous outlook is so foreign to me!

I don't know what to think!

HELP!

For the many many people saying "he's not a partner it's only 2 dates"

I. Bloody. Know!

Post should have said "potential partner".

@Danceswithwhippets

Older man here *@IceLace100* , up the liberal end of the spectrum and with a trans person in the family.

Nothing wrong with him wanting to be a vicar, if he was religious in his youth so what -I think a number of people consider it as a vocation.

Committed christians are not necessarily bigots, but I have to admit they can often be up the grim end of the spectrum. I have a very religious friend who is blessed with not one but two gay sons, and she had problems finding a church that wasn’t offensively judgemental -even if they took the “love the person, hate the gay sex line”.

It’s a very positive thing that he volunteered his past to you. And that he didn’t react badly to your past and views. You clearly like each other enough to accept each others difference, past and present.

Ignore the posters who slag you off for asking for advice on MN. It’s a great, absolutely anonymous, forum.

As for posters who predicted he’ll be rubbish in bed -well, good luck and report back. But only after a trial period please, first nights are not a reliable judge!

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

It's not being religious as such that bothers me as such, it's the outdated views, which I think are extreme (even though some people disagree) plus beating himself up about holding them a long time ago. Plus him thinking he has completely changed. Surely a formerly held world view might bleed out in other ways, subconsciously?

@SVRT19674

OP his views are conservative, but not extremist. Except on sex before marriage, that is very old fashioned indeed. Fifty years out of date if it is a day. I think he wouldn´t be the man for me, and reading your description of your situation and bio, well, he is definitely not the man for you, you will get to that conclusion eventually. Best of luck.

I see what you're saying.

However I think being against gay couples / marriages is very extreme too. However I acknowledge that this is partly because of my friends and family etc. I just have never knowingly encountered people who though homosexuality was immoral.

@Tal45

Your backgrounds sound so different it might not work. But who knows unless you try? If he was fine when you told him about yourself then that's all good. But it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out he had a very low sex drive, had a lot of hang ups about sex or even if he ended up being bi or gay himself.

"Why not try".

I don't want to waste time on someone if we're fundamentally incompatible.

As a side note op do you really think a staunch atheist and a church orientated christian are a good match? As a christian myself (though not churchy) I can happily date someone agnostic...but I struggle to dating men who believe in the absolute of nothing. We are too different. And usually I find that its them that have the problem with that tbf. It's been my experience that certain men do not do well with you not coming round to their way of thinking.

It's always amusing when people who pride themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness find that they aren't that tolerant and open-minded after all.

But anyway, interesting that he stopped believing pre-marital sex was wrong in 2014 but didn't actually have sex for four more years... why was that, I wonder?

What are his family like? Did he get his extreme views from them? While he may have changed his mind, will you expected to sit through Christmas dinner with a lot of people you wouldn’t normally give the time of day to?

I also think he might be gay. Not having sex in his twenties might equal “had gay one night stands infrequently, but they don’t count because they were a mistake and I’m never ever doing it again”.

Thirdly - how much do you really like him? Does he make you feel happy and relaxed?

As a side note op do you really think a staunch atheist and a church orientated christian are a good match?

I agree with this too. He may have changed his views and become a more liberal Christian but he is still a church-going Christian. I'm not sure it would work out really. Perhaps it could, but the viewpoints are so very different that perhaps further down the line they could cause problems - I'm thinking far ahead here, but how would he want any children to be raised and how would you feel about them being baptized and brought up in a church? Would he want a church wedding? Would he want the children to go to a church school?

I think the fundamental differences are possibly too great.
And, you've come on a forum after 2 dates to ask about this so I think you are very unsure yourself.
You could either just end it now or give it some more time but keep an eye on it as it were - find out a bit more about why and how he changed his views, what his views are now - eg. how does he feel about gay couples having children or adopting children?
I think if you could discuss that topic with him that might give you a better idea. I know a lot of "liberal" Christians who are all for equal rights etcetc but when it comes to bringing up children that's where it stops.....

@LongLiveGoblingKing

I've met a lot of men who identify as liberal and say the right things because they were brought up in that sort of environment but it's actually quite surface level. This man has thought about these issues in a very deep way, and arrived at his views despite his own internal conflicts. That's got to count for something!

This is my experience too. So many people use labels like liberal or socialist but they haven’t thought deeply on the issues. It’s just the in group they see themselves apart of rather than they’ve taken time to think through the issues.

He sounds like he’s thought through things.

I think he sounds great, personally. How many people, hand on heart, really are open to changing their views as adults in a meaningful way? Not many. So kudos to him.

It's always amusing when people who pride themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness find that they aren't that tolerant and open-minded after all

This

It's like it's good to be liberal and accepting of those who are different from you, so long as they are different in ways that are 'cool'. If they are different in ways that are uncool, then it's OK to denounce them as bigots.

NC for this as is v personal. I am a Christian, so is my DH, but before we got together we had slightly different flavours of faith. He told me on maybe our third date that he did not believe in sex before marriage; I had had a couple of previous boyfriends. We got married in our late 20s and we are extremely happy. I know a Christian couple in their 40s who have just got married - both strongly believe in no sex before marriage but have many many friends who take a different approach and have never tried to force their beliefs on other people. It is not an uncommon value to have in some parts of the church and I would never negatively judge anyone who felt this way.

It's always amusing when people who pride themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness find that they aren't that tolerant and open-minded after all

Yep. I'm a woolly liberal, and often shocked at how closed minded many of my 'liberal' friends are. Especially when it comes to religion, actually.

I have far more respect for someone who's examined the attitudes they grew up with, found them to be wrong and changed how they thought, than someone who writes off someone simply because they used to be religious.
Who's the tolerant liberal one out of those?

Yep. I'm a woolly liberal, and often shocked at how closed minded many of my 'liberal' friends are. Especially when it comes to religion, actually
Yes! My dh is Catholic and a lot of people (even on here!) are quite happy saying things about catholics that I don't think they would say about other groups in society.

@SeaShoreGalore

It's always amusing when people who pride themselves on their tolerance and open-mindedness find that they aren't that tolerant and open-minded after all

This

It's like it's good to be liberal and accepting of those who are different from you, so long as they are different in ways that are 'cool'. If they are different in ways that are uncool, then it's OK to denounce them as bigots.

How is someone who believes gay people are wrong not a bigot?

His fundamental religious stance hasn't changed because he feels he has to atone for past views - not behaviour or harm cause but views - and announce all of it.
There's some sort of weird penance thing going on with donating to charities you aren't involved with, and giving potential girlfriends the heads up.

Men who want to be religious leaders can often be ascetic and at the same time controlling of others, which makes me question the roots of their own faith and asceticism. Look out for red flags for controlling behaviour.

His views were not extreme. They are the views held by many many millions of people in the world - or a variety of religious backgrounds.
He was honest and upfront with you. Good for him.
Many would consider your views extreme. Maybe something to consider ?
See how it goes. People can also change their perspectives and opinions. Maybe yours might too.

I was a fanatical born again Christian for years before realising it wasn't for me. I've been a pagan now for the last 30 years totally about face change. If he says he's changed then he has.

Gosh - he has the same political mindset as you but took a while getting there. Why the angst? He has a back story - don’t we all? Do you want to go out with carbon copies of the same guy.

I’ve got to say though, like some others - the atoning by going on Pride marches and giving to gay charities - it’s all a bit too much ‘thought crime’ for me and that would put me off. We all have the right to change our minds and hopefully grow - no need for the self flagellation. I’d prefer someone who was a bit more humorous about it

Is he still religious? I used to be a Christian but left the church for similar reasons. I could no longer associate myself with something that preached love but practised hate and sexism and dogma. I thought about it a lot and almost like a reformed smoker I would not fall back into that mindset again and feel like I’m actually enlightened now.
So I wouldn’t worry about him going back to it but if he’s still involved with the church he hasn’t quite been able to make the break but even so, once you see the homophobia and misogyny you can’t unsee it and accept it.

I'd be disappointed he thought this way until his thirties and would question his intelligence to be honest

The gay section really I'm referring to

I don't think giving to charity is 'self-flagellation'.

@Serenschintte

His views were not extreme. They are the views held by many many millions of people in the world - or a variety of religious backgrounds. He was honest and upfront with you. Good for him. Many would consider your views extreme. Maybe something to consider ? See how it goes. People can also change their perspectives and opinions. Maybe yours might too.

I think his views are extreme, and since it's my possible future relationship, that's what matters.

I get people might think my views are extreme.

There is no way my fundamental beliefs would change. For example, I'm never going to think gay people are immoral in any way, I'm never going to be pro-life. It just isn't going to happen!