June 2021 - Well we took you to Stately Homes...

[Sicario]

June 2021, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4182916-March-2021-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=39

Forerunning threads since December 2007 are linked on the previous threads if you want to click back and have a look.

This thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Thanks for your kind words. My father left when I was 16, he couldn’t take the ignoring from mum any longer. He was an angry man and would often shout and intimate me and my brother. He got some sort of satisfaction from making us jump when he shouted. Between the ignoring and intimidating it wasn’t a happy household. Myself and my brother both feel like we have no emotional connection to our parents. He has managed to detach himself emotionally and has created a boundary to protect himself. I must say, he was the golden child and I was the scapegoat. But even so, he feels that our emotional needs weren’t met as children. He’s a lovely man, thank his we have each other.
My children are 13,11,6, I am overly attentive to their needs because I’m terrified of turning into my mother. I can’t help but feel a little envious of what they have, because I so desperately crave motherly love. How have people got over the fact this will never happen? She is actually nice to them but too nice so the youngest prefer going to her than me when she visits…
Every time she visits I feel like she ignores me or she looks thoroughly bored when I speak. The ignoring has become so deafening that I can’t stand it any longer.
My husband is an amazing man and very straight up, black and white and you know where you stand with him, for that I’m so grateful. I don’t feel I can tell her how I feel as I’ve tried that before, it doesn’t work.

Your father failed you also as a parent by both being too shouty and failing to protect you from the excesses of his wife's behaviours. Women like your mother as well cannot do relationships so the men in their lives are either as narcissistic as they are or are otherwise discarded.

re your comment:-
"My children are 13,11,6, I am overly attentive to their needs because I’m terrified of turning into my mother. I can’t help but feel a little envious of what they have, because I so desperately crave motherly love. How have people got over the fact this will never happen? She is actually nice to them but too nice so the youngest prefer going to her than me when she visits…"

Your mother has made the terrible choice not to love; her own self hatred knows no bounds. If you are frightened of turning into your mother I can tell you now that your fears are groundless and not based in any reality. You also have two qualities that your mother lacks; empathy and insight. You absolutely will not turn into your mother. After all you are a separate person to her even though she likely tried to make you feel like an extension of her.

Red flags a plenty here are flying re your mother and your youngest child. You need to put a halt to these visits now because she could well try and steal your youngest one's heart and mind here from under your very nose. I would think she is somewhat annoyed that your eldest two do not overtly bother with her because they have their own friends and interests. They also on some level know what she is like.

Grandparents like your mother are emotionally unhealthy and thus emotionally unsafe to be around. Many adult children of narcissists in particular fall into the trap and tend to believe in the fiction (against their own experience to the contrary growing up) that their toxic parent will somehow behave better with the grandchildren. It does not happen.

She does not care how you feel because she has no empathy so there is no point in trying with her to see your point of view.

Hello friends. Hi in particular @MrsPumpkinSeed, a fellow winter-squash-themed name. :)

Update on my stuff - still NC, kept it up for an entire month and damn proud of myself.

Seeing a counsellor through work EAP, we have 'clicked' well. She said she'd had women's aid training and actually named what had happened to me as domestic abuse, which was a big deal for me because in my head that's between spouses, not parent to adult child. To have another uninvolved adult name it as that was important.

When I run out of free sessions I may look to continue privately, because there's a fair bit to unpick, but what I've had so far is helping. Counsellor said keep a journal, and that has been an absolute game changer for me, can't recommend it enough - if nothing else, an excuse to buy beautiful stationery. Because of my autism I don't really think in words and as such have trouble naming emotions (I think it is what they call alexithymia). So I draw my emotion and write my words, and I think this is making me a bit more emotionally literate, i.e. what happened that led to me feeling red or green on that particular day. I didn't think I was very emotionally varied, but now I have evidence that I do feel and think and process things like a mostly normal human, I have good days and bad days. Probably the overwhelming negative emotion on the bad days is fear, or a kind of foreboding, like something awful is about to happen.

I have enjoyed making small decisions about my home/life without consulting my mum. Every thing I plan, initiate and complete feels like a small bit of control falling off. I am trying to be conscious of not just outright rebelling. Better that the choices I make serve me rather than being reactive. I'm learning some DIY/self-sufficiency skills too. Don't know if anyone else with a controlling parent feels they've turned out an under-developed adult because they were never taught how to look after themselves (to facilitate the control), and in my case it's further stunted as I married young to escape and am now single again and don't know how to use power tools. Currently. Gonna learn. I may go and buy the most ridiculously macho drill, in fact.

@ AttilaTheMeerkat

Many thanks for your message. I have read it over a few times and pondered what to say in return. When I think back… all through childhood, I was always questioning myself, wondering what I’d done wrong. This stayed with me for years, in every day life I’d often feel like I’d upset people for no reason. As a teenager, when my dad left, her attention turned to me - she used to tell me I was “just like him”. Ignoring me for weeks at a time. I actually used to think I was going insane. She’d get me to drink alcohol with her every evening so she had a drink partner (I was 15). By the time I was 23 I was virtually an alcoholic! Thank
His this didn’t happen. When I had my first born she fell out with me because “I didn’t seem to need her and her friends thought I was cruel for pushing her away”. On my wedding day I was ignored and blanked, I spent the day wondering what I’d done to upset her. I was told to choose between her and my DA who I adore. Mum was GC and auntie scape goat when they were growing up. So many things over the years are starting to make sense. What gets me is she can be very caring and appears empathetic at times which confuses the hell out of me. I’ve gone quiet on her the last few weeks and she’s barely been in touch. I realise it’s me that does all the running, organising and caring - she’s never ever organised anything for us in her life. I’ve learned how to do this from my MIL. Going to try LC for now and see how it goes. My brother manages this way. The weird thing is, she doesn’t act the same with him because he takes no bullshit. He was GC growing up but then she turned to me as GC when he pushed her away and told her she was a bad mother. He got drunk and told her she neglected our needs and he hated her for it. That was a while back. Sadly her partner facilitates her behaviour and has similar personality traits. Sorry for the offload. Writing this down helps. I just don’t know what to do.

Hi All, hoping someone can help me make sense as I'm in a really messy place in my mind. Growing up my 'd'f was an angry and violent man, made worse by drink. I vividly remember living in fear and I moved out at 20 when I couldn't stick it any longer.
My relationship with him has improved with age and physical distance.
My sister is too young to remember the above so has no understanding. When I moved out it gave my brother somewhere to escape to which frightened my father in to better behaviour as he didn't want anyone to realise why I'd left.
The bit I'm struggling with at the moment is that my mother let all this happen. She's never honest about it all. She was afraid of him, I understand that because my first dp was violent and I left him and took my son as I wouldn't let a child grow up as I did. That's the key difference in my head, I left for my child.
I think it's come to the forefront as she blatantly favours my sister and her children, and shows no maternal emotion towards me at all. She doesn't care if I'm unwell or about anything in my life unless it affects her.
I'm rambling and not really sure what I'm asking, but there's so much going on and I don't know what to do with it.

Hi there. I’m not 100% sure this is the right thread for my circumstances but I’ve posted before about a difficult relationship with my father and would love some advice.
After a difficult holiday a few weeks ago where he stonewalled everyone for 4 days, including my young kids, after he told my child aggressively to ‘shut up’ and I asked him not to speak to her like that, he’s called today basically saying he doesn’t want a relationship with me but does with my kids.
He says he and I haven’t got on since the day I was born and that will never change…
He has completely morphed what actually happened on the trip into a woe-is-me tale - his stonewalling was to protect the kids from witnessing an argument etc. No apology of course.
I dislike conflict but I’m flabbergasted by some of the things he said to me while asking that we still take the kids to see him. I left it as we would move forward but I’m now disappointed with myself for not standing up to him.

@ HotelCaliforniaOnRepeat

So so sorry to hear about what you went through / are going through. Non of this is your fault. It sounds like you and your children are being used as scape goats. This is not okay and nor should you accept this. Your mother enabled your fathers behaviour and didn’t protect you. You’re in a safe place here, there are some fabulous, kind people willing to give advice. I’m also in such a state coming to terms with everything. Holding hands with you.

@ Change45
So sorry to hear this. Your DF sounds like a narcissist for sure. Non of this is your fault. Stonewalling and ignoring is one of the cruelest punishments, it leaves us questioning who we are and what we’ve done wrong. You’ve done nothing wrong. I look forward to words of wisdom from some more experienced people on here. I’m so grateful to have found this thread. Sending love and strength to you both.

Newleafturned

re your comments in quote marks:-
"When I had my first born she fell out with me because “I didn’t seem to need her and her friends thought I was cruel for pushing her away”.

SHE was not the centre of attention then and the opinion of her so called friends/flying monkeys sent in by her to do her bidding (I say so called because women like your mother do not have friends) is worthless. Did any of these people tell you this directly or had this come from your mother?

"On my wedding day I was ignored and blanked, I spent the day wondering what I’d done to upset her". I was told to choose between her and my DA who I adore"

Again your mother was not the centre of attention so decided to stir the pot accordingly. Its typical narcissistic behaviour from mother and I have read many examples of such.

"Mum was GC and auntie scape goat when they were growing up. So many things over the years are starting to make sense".

There you go, toxic crap dysfunction like this can and does go down the generations and their parents treated them like this too. Your auntie, being the scapegoat, was in a far better position to escape the dysfunction than your mother ever was and probably did not want to. She learnt also that this works for her.

"What gets me is she can be very caring and appears empathetic at times which confuses the hell out of me".

The abrupt change from decent treatment to outright abuse is very shocking and bewildering, and so contrary to normal experience (I also worked with a narcissist and that experience was bad enough) that I eventually realized that it was actually my expression of affection that triggered the narcissists' nasty reactions. Once they know you are emotionally attached to them, they expect to be able to use you like an appliance and shove you around like a piece of furniture. If you object, then they'll say that obviously you don't really love them or else you'd let them do whatever they want with you. If you should be so uppity as to express a mind and heart of your own, then they will cut you off -- just like that, sometimes trashing you and all your friends on the way out the door. The narcissist will treat you just like a broken toy or tool or an unruly body part: "If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off" [Matt. 18:8]. This means you. Narcissists have NO empathy at all for others and its all about them.

"I’ve gone quiet on her the last few weeks and she’s barely been in touch. I realise it’s me that does all the running, organising and caring - she’s never ever organised anything for us in her life. I’ve learned how to do this from my MIL. Going to try LC for now and see how it goes"

Remember too that low contact often leads to no contact. I would see how it goes as well as keeping your kids well away from her. Do not reach out to her at all, maintain radio silence.

"My brother manages this way. The weird thing is, she doesn’t act the same with him because he takes no bullshit. He was GC growing up but then she turned to me as GC when he pushed her away and told her she was a bad mother. He got drunk and told her she neglected our needs and he hated her for it. That was a while back.

The roles of scapegoat and golden child are interchangeable in many such dysfunctional families. He is male and she perhaps fears him on some level or sees him as some sort of authority figure. He still hates her though, in vino veritas.

"Sadly her partner facilitates her behaviour and has similar personality traits".

No surprise there either. Women like your mother cannot do relationships so the men in their lives are either as narcissistic as they are or are otherwise discarded.

HotelCaliforniaonRepeat

I would concur with Newleafturned reply to you. You and in turn your children are the scapegoats and what happened to you as a child was not your fault in any way. This is all on your mother and father. Your mother enabled and abetted his abuse and also failed abjectly as a parent. She put her own needs and wants before those of her now adult children and I would keep her completely out of your lives now. It is not possible to have a relationship with someone like your mother.

Change

Keep your children also well away from your abusive dad going forwards. No is a complete sentence here. Like many such types as well he is refitting the story here to frame his own warped narrative.

You will never receive an apology let alone any responsibility for his actions from him. He is toxic through and through.

You do not mention your mother here; is she still in your life?.

Thank you for the replies. Lots to think about in a difficult situation.

@Change45

Hi there. I’m not 100% sure this is the right thread for my circumstances but I’ve posted before about a difficult relationship with my father and would love some advice. After a difficult holiday a few weeks ago where he stonewalled everyone for 4 days, including my young kids, after he told my child aggressively to ‘shut up’ and I asked him not to speak to her like that, he’s called today basically saying he doesn’t want a relationship with me but does with my kids. He says he and I haven’t got on since the day I was born and that will never change… He has completely morphed what actually happened on the trip into a woe-is-me tale - his stonewalling was to protect the kids from witnessing an argument etc. No apology of course. I dislike conflict but I’m flabbergasted by some of the things he said to me while asking that we still take the kids to see him. I left it as we would move forward but I’m now disappointed with myself for not standing up to him.

Your Dad has behaved abominably - all your childhood and is now negatively impacting the emotional well-being of your own children. This is who he is and who he will always be.

Your DCs should not have witnessed and experienced this level of emotional abuse close up for 4 days.

No child should be exposed to this and if it happens once the other adults are responsible for never risking exposing them to this again.

Visualise your DF as a poisonous snake or a raging bull. This is who he, it’s his nature - it’s not if this will happen again it’s just when.

Your DCs will have absorbed the tension / hostility amongst all the adults - even if was silent and will have been left confused, distressed and anxious - just as you felt as a child - and still do.

This is your opportunity to intercept the intergenerational abuse and have a better emotional future for yourself and your DCs.

Your DCs should never see their mother bullied and subjugated by anyone without consequences - otherwise you are telling them that they should take shit from others - they will be deeply hurt seeing their mother suffer and will likely tolerate bad behaviour from toxic friends, colleagues, etc throughout their life. It’s domestic abuse and the NSPCC state that children witnessing emotional abuse amongst adults are also experiencing emotional abuse themselves.

I suspect that you had a trauma response with your DF - you fell into the freeze state (rather than flight or fight) when he called - that’s
fine - because you can’t think in that state of threat - but now that has subsided you know what you need to do for yourself and your DCs and it wasn’t what he dictated or demanded.

You have every right to change your mind / reflect on your options.

Do this calmly and assertively. No one needs someone like your DF in their lives who continues to hurt and cause lasting distress to those around them. Your DCs will learnt to adapt their behaviour to difficult people by becoming scared, silent, walking on eggshells. This is no way to approach the world - they need to taught to swerve and walk away from danger - like you would from a snake or a bull.

Your DF has conditioned you to accept this ridiculous proposal. These are your precious DCs - none of this is his call.

They don’t need this toxic situation. They don’t deserve this treatment and neither do you.

Maybe some counselling to initially find your feelings of anger and then to implement assertive behaviours.

Know that what your DF is doing now DARVO (defend, attack, reverse victim and offender) with his rewritten woe is me stance is classic abuser manipulative behaviour. Don’t engage with it.

Keep your DCs surrounded by emotionally healthy, radiant, kind and respectful people throughout their lives - it’s contagious and helps them have good standards and boundaries and grow strong emotionally as this is their blueprint and expectation what to expect and accept from others. It’s exactly the same contagion with toxic emotionally unhealthy people. Choose wisely.

”He says he and I haven’t got on since the day I was born and that will never change…”
What a statement.

Ponder on that.

In what dimension is a new born baby a threat to a grown man? He is truly v v sick and dangerous.

I am sorry that you have this character in your life it’s no surprise that you “don’t like conflict” with this ogre shadowing your life. I suspect that your resistance to “conflict” (others might call it healthily communicating your wants and needs in a calm assertive way) has caused unnecessary resentment in other areas of your life.

@Change45 - what a complete and utter bastard. Frankly I'd tell him to go fuck himself and to never contact you or any of your family ever again. Then block, block, block everywhere and do whatever you need to do to detach from him emotionally and look forward to a life without him. He doesn't deserve one single iota of your energy.

@TirisfalPumpkin wow, that’s brilliant. So glad you’ve found a good counsellor. It IS abuse. The writing / drawing really helps me.

Welcome to new peeps. This place is BRILL.

@therealsmithfield I’ve got your PM & will reply. It’s been bonkers.

22 April was the last time the Hag (evil MIL) crossed the threshold of my home. I think I’ve seen her three times. It is so good for my head.

Thank you all for your comments. Hearing it ‘said’ really helps clarify the situation for me.
My mum is unfortunately still married to him. He’s cruel to her too.

Change, it’s tough when you want to keep contact with one parent and you see they’re being abused too. Still, mum had a responsibility to shield her children from someone who thinks he ‘hasn’t got on’ with his own child since they were born.

It’s difficult bc you can empathise with them as a victim too, but I know I quickly got very upset at the enabler parent for not having my back growing up, and still not doing.

@Change45 I empathise wholeheartedly with your post. I hate that word ‘shut up’ . Got used a lot growing up. To us and DF used it to my mother very aggressively in from of us. It’s a word that triggers me as a result.
You can’t let this man back into you or your dcs life and so please manage that whatever way you can.
I agree with everyone at what an utter bastard he sounds. How fucking dare he blame a tiny baby for his own toxic ‘bully boy persona.
He has twisted the whole story to paint himself as a victim which is laughable.
Massive virtual hug and please keep writing here or privately in a diary to help you process. X

change, you are the gatekeeper to your children. You are the protector and the channel of access, shutting out the dangers of the world.

It's your dad with all the emotion attached to that, but he has to come through you to have access to them.

If he doesn't treat you well, as an equal and as the mother of your children ... with all the respect that that is due ... then he shouldn't have access. He's trying it on and he needs to be blocked, until he genuinely acts with true respect to you. You are entitled to it.

Apologies if I'm re-sharing something you all know about, but this website is fascinating and informative. Its creator has studied the forum postings of parents whose children have gone no-contact with them, and made some pretty interesting findings. The spoiler that will surprise nobody: the estranged parents are often abusers in denial about just how bad their behaviour has been, and can be seen in their postings engaging in a plethora of abusive behaviours, editing history, selective reporting or redacting the reasons their children gave for ending contact.

I feel like pretty much all of this list of dysfunctional beliefs could have been written by my toxic mother. 'It's fine to physically discipline my adult child', 'your boundaries are abusive of me', 'me being no-contact with my parent is fine and normal, you doing it to me is unacceptable', 'I can impose retrospective strings on gifts and financial help'. Eye-opening.

Wondering if anyone can help, I don’t feel I have it in me to do a full story just now but I’ve known for around a year now since therapy that my mum is narcissistic. She has always been the main cause of any stress or upset in my life, everything is about her, anything that I do that doesn’t fit with how she thinks it should be I am subjected to emotional manipulation, guilt tripping, suicide threats etc. We manage to keep things civil, I feel cold towards her most of the time but when things are going ‘well’ she expects me to act like I think the world of her and I just can’t do it. Anyway we just had a big fight as i told her I didn’t want her to keep asking to borrow money (conversation we have had many times) and of course it started all the usual stuff about how awful and selfish I am…she doesn’t ask to borrow much and does pay it back so I always give it to her but I’m tired of being treated like a cash machine by my grown mother. She told me how much I was upsetting her and making her feel like crap, I ended up telling her she was upsetting me and she asked how she could possibly be doing that so I explained and she said ‘just stop it’ so I lost it a bit and told her she clearly didn’t care about me and not to talk to me until she was prepared to listen to me. We have had this sort of fight many times but I’m 32 weeks pregnant at the moment and quite stressed due to work so this has really pushed me over the edge and I feel sick and anxious like I can’t breathe. She will message me later in the week telling me I need to apologise, or that I need to see a doctor because I’m clearly mentally unwell. If I wasn’t pregnant she would be asking me if I’m on my period. Just don’t want to deal with it anymore and honestly if she died in her sleep I’d be relieved. I went low contact last year during lockdown and it was so much better. However I naively thought things were ok after that and then they introduced bubbles (she lives alone) so we started seeing each other more and things have just gone back to how they are before. When I told her I was going Lc she said if I was going to restrict her access to my child she would kill herself. Just pushed through it. However she’s tried to tell me she will be spending a week with me after I give birth so she can bond with my baby! (This was a few weeks ago) I am generally good at dealing with this stuff but right now I just feel so down about it

Eyesofmistyblue

Stay well away from your toxic mother and keep your child well away from her too. No relationship should be established. Continue to lower all interactions with her to zero sum, it really is not possible to have a relationship with someone this disordered of thinking. Tell her now what she needs and or deserves to know about your life - nothing!.

She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she has not changed. If the other set of grandparents are emotionally healthy then concentrate on them.

Read the website also called daughters of narcissistic mothers and the Out of the fog website.

You’ve been trained and otherwise conditioned to interact with her anyway but you need to completely break free.

She has no automatic rights either of access to your child, again I would urge you to not establish any sort of relationship between her and as your yet unborn baby. You also do not have to let her into your home.

You do not mention your dad here, is he in your life at all?.

Sorry maybe not clear I already have an older child as well who is 3. Honestly if it weren’t for her I would find it much easier to break contact, she loves her granny and they seem to have a good time together but I worry about the future because once she’s old enough I’m worried she will get the same treatment from my mum. My dad isn’t in my life and hasn’t been since I was a young child, and we don’t really have any other family that she gets on with (there’s a surprise) so she doesn’t have anyone else. She and my brother have the same issues as me so they don’t really talk but they aren’t no contact. I am fine going very very low contact with her (I know no contact is better but I’m just not in the right place to do that now) but I can’t stop the crippling guilt that I’m leaving her with no one. Which is crazy because she deserves it and I almost hate her sometimes- basically I want to know how to stop the guilt and also the rage that comes when I think about what she does to me. I have had some therapy which helped massively but I need to get to acceptance