June 2021 - Well we took you to Stately Homes...

[Sicario]

June 2021, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4182916-March-2021-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=39

Forerunning threads since December 2007 are linked on the previous threads if you want to click back and have a look.

This thread has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

The important thing for your son is that he feels secure and loved by his parents; grandparents, uncles aunts are all a great bonus if the extended family is happy.
I grew up without maternal grandparents (due to bereavement) and LC with paternal. There was no ill-feeling, but they had moved from London to Devon, and my DF could drive but had no car. So paternal GP's were kindly folk I saw infrequently, uncles aunts and cousins on that side of the family similarly. I am now in a position where I can only guess that those cousins are still alive; I could pass them in the street without recognizing them. Slightly different to your situation, as there was no falling out involved, but what you never had, you never really miss. The cousins on the maternal side, on the other hand, grew up seeing each other frequently, and we remain firm friends.
Without speaking ill of his cousin(s), you can nurture relationships on your "side" of the family, and refer kindly but vaguely to the other cousin "that we don't see very much of". I'd be very surprised if your son was interested enough to become angry about it.

What does your H also want to do here; whatever is decided both you and he must present a united front. Remaining in contact with these people will set you both up for being further hurt and disappointed so I would certainly lower any current levels of contact to zero sum in the longer term. This is who they are and they are not going to change. Your H has to let go of any and all residual hope they will say sorry to him and change their behaviour. Will he consider seeing a BACP registered therapist; it may be something for him to consider. At the very least reading "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward could help.

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles; your DH's here within his family of origin is one of scapegoat. As a result you people as his family unit get scapegoated as well, that was sadly always going to happen. His sister is the "golden child" and so more favoured. It is a role also not without price but she remains unaware of that.

Protect your child from all of DHs side of the family; you are really protecting him from Bad Things by doing this. Do not get at all hung up on the idea that your child would be at all missing out on one side of the family; what he does not know he will not miss. Furthermore you would be protecting him from being scapegoated like his dad was and still is.

Dysfunctional families like his mother's do not and never infact play by the "normal" rules of familial relations. If your parents are nice and importantly emotionally healthy people, then I would concentrate efforts further on them.

@Legoisaws8om I'm pretty sure your son will just grow up with his normality and accept what you tell him. I don't think he'd be angry and you are saving him heartache.
Just think of what to say...they live very far away.... or, we've just never seen much of them or something else.

I think you are protecting your son by keeping a distance and the best way to handle it, -when- he asks, is to say that Granny and Grandpa never learned how to treat people fairly, like he himself likes to be treated, and so until they do, we need to keep our distance because it isn't right to be treated unfairly.

Kids can manage to handle an awful lot if their parents are age-appropriate honest and don't keep secrets, and try to show how to behave fairly themselves (sharing and encouraging children to share). If he does get angry, calm explanation will help weather the storm. But it's far better to handle it this way than for him to learn that he's second best and basically, unwanted.

Hi I haven't posted for about 12 months as I had gone nc for a while with dm but the guilt ate me up and I have since gone low contact. Now its quite good 90percent of the time but I have made mistakes and haven't kept boundaries as tight. Opening myself up for criticism (constant throughout my life)
Grey rock is the only the only way for me from now on.

When dm visits I have to listen to an hour or drama. Put downs. She tastes something... she will say 'yuck' then the tea is too cold. Too hot. Etc.

If I passed a course she would roll her eyes or make a face like she's bored. Tell me everything I am doing wrong but her friends daughters or any Joe soap is doing 'so well'

I don't know why I needed to post. I can't make friends as I know deep down I have a flaw that I won't mix with people incase they criticise me too. I am married and happy that way. Just needed to get that all out.

@MrsPumpkinSeed you’re doing really well. It’s VERY hard to undo all that damage. Think about the 90% You’re doing right for yourself rather than the 10% where you’re developing your tactics. Xxx

Thanks Monkey.
A sibling told me that I have isolated myself from the family and I don't get too involved. They are more involved than me but male and more resilient.

It just hurts so badly. It's all an act. I have to pretend I am busy and cut calls short as the phone calls are too much at times. She is trying to plan a holiday with her. Expecting me to mind all the grandkids and run adfter her no doubt. I can't face it. I have said no.

Hi how is everyone doing?

@MrsPumpkinSeed - I feel your pain. It can just feel like you will never feel any different but you will I promise. If you can’t go NC completely why not take an NC holiday from her ? It does sound like any contact make you feel low.
How were you when NC did it help?

@MonkeyfromManchester hope all ok on the hag front and sorry I’ve not acknowledged or replied to your pm. Thank you so much for sending all the info!

I’ve had a busy week at work but it’s done me good to have a different focus .
I’ve still not unblocked TM and I feel saner and safer. I did see the counsellor in the end and there was a moment where she tried to turn something TM had said into a pos.
This is what I’ve had to contend with from TM most of my life … problem is me.
I stood up for myself and said In any ‘ normal’ mother / daughter relationship yes but mine is not a normal mother or relationship.
I listed some of the things TM has done and she looked horrified. I accept it’s difficult to get your head around the total Mind f* that is having a mother that’s a narc.
We have moved on to parenting myself and nurturing the small me and I think this is what I want to do now.
I have a long way to go with this as I have stuffed down feelings, ignored little me”s needs for so long. I really want to give it a go though.
I want to feel I have totally let go of any desire to have a relationship or be ‘enough’ for her.
I need to feel I am enough for me and me alone. That will be very powerful and healing.

@therealsmithfield no worries at all!

Good for you on pointing out to your counsellor the reality of the situation. You’ve got her on the right track. They can be dim. I went to Relate with my psycho ex and the counsellor felt sorry for the twat who’d been emotionally and physically abusive to me. I ended it with her and the twat soon after. A lot of victim blaming goes on.

I’ve got some classic Hag tales. She NEVER fails on that front.

Hello everyone,

I hope it's appropriate for me to jump in here.
I gave birth last year to DC1 and ever since then, so many things from my childhood have resurfaced. I have always been an outwardly calm person but this past year I am constantly angry, resentful, crying. It's almost as if I've realised just what a crap childhood I had, and I am so trying to not pass any of that onto DC.

I really don't know where to begin. My parents were relatively well off but DM came from a poor background so it's almost as if she couldn't quite shake off the penny pinching mindset. Gifts were rare during the year and birthday gifts would be things that we "needed". This doesn't really bother me much and I am grateful, it just meant that i had to learn to enjoy my own money without the guilt that she passed onto me once I became financially independent and moved out. DM also comes from a family of self proclaimed martyrs. Always a competition of who sacrificed the most to please someone else, particularly for extended family or friends who literally couldn't give a flying f*ck. DM is nearing 60 and to this day, she is seeking the approval and praise of her own parents...so I do see why and how she passed this onto me and my siblings.

DF is and always has been an emotionally abusive relationship with his sister, though he still doesn't know it despite us all trying to point it out to him. And this is usually the cause of (very frequent) tension between my DM and him. My DM cannot accept that DF puts the opinions and needs of his sister above hers, and I get it. DF in turn has always, ALWAYS been a rubbish communicator, particularly with DM. He seems to think that if his sister is up to date with his life and activities, that's his job done and he doesn't need to keep anyone else in the loop, including his own children. He has a sense of extreme loyalty to his sister to the point where he will hide the most mundane things from the rest of us- e.g. being very non committal re weekend plans with us (his family) and then revealing at the last minute that he is off to help his sister with something like house DIY/taking her to hospital appointments etc. It's been going on for so long that now if he doesn't confirm plans with us, we automatically assume he's got plans with his sister and we will probably find out later.

ANYWAY, I digress. DF's issues are his own, as I've learnt to accept over the years.

Growing up, DM and DF had many issues and so my memories of DM in particular are of her being irate, always in a rush to get on top of housework (and me being the nuisance slowing her down with my needs), often making me feel guilty, saying things like "you'll remember me when I'm gone". For some odd reason, she was much nicer and closer to my younger brothers. She often jokes that it's because she breastfed them and I was a formula baby.

DF was more the avoidant type- would just go out with his friends or buried himself in his work, or be busy being unknowingly enslaved by his sister. There have been points where it seemed like he might be romantically involved with another woman but we never had enough proof to confront him, and regrettably I think even if there was enough, nobody wanted to open that can of worms. DF would sometimes proudly explain to us that he's "a man of few words" if we ever brought up that he never told DM he loved her. Sadly she used us to be messengers between herself and DF and then later used us as her therapists.

I've always been quite sensitive but early on, I quickly got labelled as the cry baby of the family. Even if I wasn't crying, I'd be mocked for being upset about something until I did cry. Only recently did I realise how much this has impacted me- DP and I have been together 6 years and only now am I comfortable telling him what's bothering me. Previously I'd just freeze and remain silent and internalise EVERYTHING, and now I realise it's because I just didn't want to cry. I'm working on this and things are gradually improving, but this is just one aspect of many. Since meeting DP and his family and especially since having DC, I have realised how much my own parents withheld hugs, kisses, affection, words of affirmation etc. And as I result I did too, later being labelled as "emotionally stumped" by my siblings. I am actually a really emotional person but just not around my parents because the shame and embarrassment of my childhood has lingered. I don't even hug or kiss or show much affection to DC when I'm around my parents for the same reason, and I feel so guilty for it. My poor DC should be impacted.

I am a chronic people pleaser and over time this has made me very anxious. It really peaked when I went back to work after having DC but also gave me the wake up call I needed. I'm trying to read a book about boundaries, but obviously changing the people pleaser in me will take a lot of time. I wish there was just a switch. My self esteem has always been rubbsih, I think because my parents' love was so conditional- I was basically worthless without their validation and approval. Looking back, it seems my parents wanted me to be seen but not heard. My opinions didn't matter, I didn't get a say in most of my life decisions and overall although I was a high achiever, I have never ever felt proud of myself. Throughout our relationship DP has always told me I need to love myself, but up until recently I was too embarrassed to actually reveal to him that I LITERALLY don't know what that phrase means. I'm not quite sure how to improve this about myself but I know I need to, not least for the sake of DC.

Recently my siblings and I have had conversations about generational trauma with my parents and I've really enjoyed them, but I know we still haven't gotten through to them. They acknowledge that change is needed but then revert to "well your generation can change, this is how it was for us". Very hot and cold. I think on some level, they feel attacked and then defensive. If I didn't have DC, perhaps I would invest more time in continuing these conversations with my parents but as DC gets older, I realise that I need to heal from all this on my own, regardless of my family. I just don't know how. My parents are amazing with my DC and I want them to continue to grow this relationship. I just need to also heal myself so I can parent DC the way I want to, and not just the way I know and experienced myself. I'd be really grateful for any advice.

So grateful I’ve found this thread. So sorry to hear of the pain so many of you are going through and have been through.
It’s taken me years to realise that my mother is a narcissist but of the ignoring type. I was never shouted at as a child or outwardly manipulated, quite the opposite.. I was ignored as a form of punishment, sometimes for weeks on end. One word answers, acting like I don’t exist, that can really send you crazy. As an adult with three DC she is very attentive to their needs but still ignores me or gives little reaction to anything I say or do. I feel like an irritation to her at best. I over compensate now by trying to be liked by everyone. I needed and wanted my Mum to be motherly and support me, yet she didn’t. Even to this day I look for approval from her constantly and RARELY get it. I’ve always compensated by making conversation, being overly attentive to HER needs, I’ve been the parent in our relationship my whole life and feel bereft that I’ve never been mothered, I don’t know what it feels to be mothered, although I’m incredibly grateful that I will never be that way with our DC. I’m struggling coming to terms with wanting my mum to be someone she’s never going to be.... I have deep routed scars from being ignored as a child and given the silent treatment often not knowing what I’d done wrong and left to feel abandoned. Has anyone else had an ignoring mother?

Hi leaf

I would think you do not actually get any approval at all from your ignoring narcissistic mother, any approval is absolutely conditional. She has done you an awful lot of emotional damage and I would urge you to find a therapist to work with (and one at that who has no familial bias about keeping families together). Her silent treatment towards you is an example of emotional abuse.

To your eternal credit you have not gone onto repeat this pattern of dysfunction with your own children.

When you are dealing with a narcissistic parent the usual rules of life and or familial interactions do not apply. If she is too toxic/difficult/batshit for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for your children as well. How old are they now roughly?. Keep your children well away also from her going forward and start to lower all levels of contact. She could well start to use your children as leverage against you; this absolutely cannot be allowed to happen.

You do not mention your dad here; is he still in your life?.

This link may also be useful to you to read:-
www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/ignoring-mother/

@Newleafturned - I definitely relate to your post. The ignoring was generally in anger if I went against her or was in her bad books. Which was a lot! She would give me the silent treatment and my siblings and dad would join in for fear of getting on her wrong side.
It’s awful the lasting impact of something like this. I am also a people pleaser.
Have you tried telling her how her behaviour makes you feel and how you felt as a child growing up? It sounds like she is still very much in your life so having these realisations but not being able to express them to the perpetrator of those upsetting feelings can make it very hard.

@HowYouDoinnn - I also had a lot of realisations when I had my first DC. I think it’s probably normal that having our own children and them growing through different stages act as triggers.
The only advice I can offer is firstly, that you can’t be a perfect parent . I carry a lot of guilt over things I could of / can do better still . Forgiving and being kinder to yourself makes you a better parent . My harsh, often critical attitude toward myself ( how I was patented ) wasn’t helpful and made it worse. So how you parent yourself is key.
There were times when I have ‘ acted’ ‘behaved’ like my mother as a parent . The difference is I am aware and I do own it when I have gone about things the wrong way .
I had to create a lot of distance physically in order to detach emotionally from my parents also. I felt too much headspace was taken up with still trying to get them to be the parents I needed instead of focusing on the parent I wanted to be.
The latter part is difficult because it relies on trusting yourself and your own judgment and that in itself is very difficult when you have been brought up by ‘narc’ parents. We have generally been trained well in adapting to ‘their’ needs. We do it in auto pilot. Finding YOU and trusting in you and going with it takes time and persistence.
I’m not there yet.
Hope this helps.
By the way your parents were totally absent for you and that is incredibly painful to come to terms with. So be kind to yourself.

HowYouDoinnn

re your comment:-
"My parents are amazing with my DC and I want them to continue to grow this relationship".

Ask yourself why that really is the case. Is this really a further example of your own people pleasing behaviours?. The truism here is that if parents are too toxic/difficult or otherwise too batshit for you as an adult to deal with, its the same deal for your children as well. They could well become as scapegoated as you have been; they may well already have a favourite and or try and turn one of them against the other. Do not have these emotionally unhealthy people around your children going forward.

You have two qualities that your parents completely lack here; empathy and insight. They really have neither and they have infact done the usual toxic parent behaviour of going on the offensive when you have tried to talk to them about their behaviours and their effects on you all. This is who they are and they will not change, nor acknowledge your pain. They had a choice when it came to you and they chose to do the same as what was done to them. Their excuses are just that, excuses and poor ones at that. As it says in the header post:-
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so".

Would you consider seeing a BACP therapist re your people pleasing behaviours; I would think this trait badly impacts on every single aspect of your life. psychcentral.com/health/tips-to-stop-being-a-people-pleaser

I made a mistake in contacting one of the savoured siblings to talk about dm. For background she has significant mental health issues and is quite selfish and speaks badly of everyone she knows. Growing up she said I had no friends because I was 'boring' and shouted at me when I did invite friends over. To this day I have never had close friends. I don't know if its due to this.

Anyway - every single special occasion gets spoilt with her behavior. My hen (she ended up in A&E so that she arrived late and miraculously fine)
Graduation she took ill so that dad had to take her out and that was the talk of the day.
Wedding - several rows and dads speech was all about their 'friends' 59th birthday which was that weekend.

Sibling says I am not involved and basically cold. I have to be.

Growing up I was always the good girl. No matter what mood swings I came home. Kept quiet and cleaned the house. She would scream that I was drinking all day - I used to escape to the library that was my solace.

Anyway my father said that night to get away as far as possible and I applied for uni far away.

However. Since then he always supports my mother. They screamed and threw a temper at dh a few weeks after we married as he stood up for me. He thinks they are bit cases and passes himself but can't stand them.

The thing is I can't go nc. I tried.
I have literally no one in my corner. Dh is tired of hearing it. To make matters 'worse' (for me) his mother rings bragging about dh all the time. Ringing incase he didn't get home safe etc. That makes me feel even more low an unloved. No one ever did that for me. I am in my 40s. I need to cop myself on i know. I have a great marriage. Job and loving dc.

Why does it still hurt?

My sibling basically said yes she was ill.
We were never hungry. That I put it on myself and isolated myself from them.

@MrsPumpkinSeed it hurts because no one has your back. No one is making sure YOUR needs are met. If you were on a plane with your dc and it was going down . You would need to take the oxygen first then so you can then give oxygen to your dc. It’s the same in life.
It sounds like your in laws are toxic too, and that DH may be the golden child?
Is there any way you could get some counselling so that you have someone who is there for you to help unpick all these unhealthy emit and relationships with you?
Have you done much reading around the subject of narc parents. Reading in itself is therapeutic as it’s taking time for you which is nurturing and self parenting. It helped me to read and decipher the dynamics I was caught up in.
So sorry you are feeling low xx

@MrsPumpkinSeed by the way your sibling is totally enmeshed with your parents. Trying to get her to see your POV I’m afraid will be fruitless and just wear you down and expand energy that needs to be spent on grabbing that oxygen!

I love reading but I haven't read much on this.
In laws are decent people just inward looking. Also mil moved in with her mother and carer for her all her life and I think they don't understand the modern world at all.

Her generation (very rural very Catholic) just put up and shut up. That's fine. But I don't see them as my family deeply. After 12years it's quite superficial chat and mostly about their health or local news I don't much care for.

My family are hot headed and either love or hate people. They don't really understand me because for 23 years now I haven't let them get to know the real me.
If I make my feelings known I get shouted at. So I say nothing and then get told I'm odd or have changed.

Dad was in a car accident and none of them told me. There's a lot of mind games.

Sibling is a brother. When I rang for a bit of support I got quite an arrogant response that he achurved more and has done more with his life - he actually hasn't and also moved abroad so only sees them twice a year. I'm 15 mins away.

Achieved

You absolutely need to put both mental and physical distance between you and your parents, particularly your mother. What you are describing here is life growing up within a narcissistic family as the scapegoat. Her MH is more likely poor due to she having an untreated and untreatable personality disorder along cluster B lines. NPD is a cluster b disorder.

My MIL had behaved similarly with regards to my DH her son so can sympathise on that level too.

Use this forum as your safe space, you are and will be believed here.

Thank You
I'm going to keep busy this morning and Declutter a bit. Keeping busy and distracting myself helps so much. I think I won't keep talking about it to dh. He's very black and white.

Keep posting here and read also about the tactic called DARVO that many abusive people use against their target.