I know it's late but please help if you can

[LucyCielo]

Tonight went out with df (getting married next month). I mentioned something that he thought was a dig at his family and he then pushed me off my chair in the middle of quite a posh bar. Everyone seen this and some kind random man had to help me up. He has since apologised but I am still not sure whether this is something I should put up with. Any advice?

it shouldn't matter what you say, you shouldn't live in fear of being pushed or hit round the head. this isn't ok. doesn't matter what you said.

i agree with carmenere. think very hard about committing yourself to this man.

I'm sorry.

Lucy do you honestly think this pattern will get better when both of you are "entrapped" in wedded "bliss"?
You'll only get louder and he'll get angrier. and your child will be in the middle absorbing this pattern.
Please talk this through now.

Oh my god Lucycielo, you need to seriously think about what you're doing with this man. I was in an abusive relationship for 6 years and listening to the way you talk about yourself and regard yourself is exactly how I used to talk about myself.
There was a large age gap with us also and I think that was part of the problem. He didn't become physically violent with me until near the end of our relationship, in fact it was when he started to hurt me physically that i realised I had to leave, it was only after I was out of the relationship that I realised that the emotional abuse i had received for years was way more damaging than what he had done to me physically.
But when you are in it it is so hard to see clearly and you do feel so dependant (at least I did) my self-esteem was rock bottom and he knew how to keep it there so he could say anything to me and I would believe him.
When we split people were astonished at my perception of myself (which he had created over time) and I needed constant reasurrance that I wasn't a bad person and actually didn't deserve all that had happened to me (as he had had me believe for years).
When I met my current partner I was such a mess and it took a long time to trust and believe in myself and in him, luckily he was incredibly supportive and helped me to sort through my baggage.

Please if any of this is ringing true for you consider seriously if you should be planning a future with this guy.
I know it's hard when you have a child together, but you have to keep you both safe emotionally and physically.

Hi Lucy. It sounds as though you have reached that 'surreal' stage when you are feeling as though it is happening to someone else, your lovely DP can't really be abusing you can he? That weird 'I am not one of those women' feeling, and 'he is not one of those men'. Actually, you both are. I'm sorry for saying that.

I have been in a similar position twice, the second time I was pregnant with the man's baby.

I kept taking him back though I was starting to become afraid of him, because I was thinking, 'He's alright usually, surely I can't have been so wrong, nobody is perfect, he has a few faults but don't we all' etc. and I especially thought I was no better than him and therefore deserved someone very imperfect.

It took my mother seeing me crying one too many times, and begging me to leave, to actually make me feel I had 'permission' to do so, and that the relationship was actually horrid - abusive and controlling. And he had never even hit me.

My point is that yes, it seems 'not too bad' and as though you can probably control its frequency by walking on eggshells at the moment. But you will soon find you are walking on eggshells every day, all the time, I mean FFS what gives him the right to overreact at you like that?? It's insane!

Have you anyone like your family or friends who you can ask, 'should I stay with this plonker bloke?' and get an honest reply? It might make you see how ridiculous the situation is.

Please remember that your children will grow up thinking it is OK to hit women. And probably use him as a role model for their future partners or behaviour, as long as you are saying, 'this is acceptable'.

Years of therapy would be needed to change these very deep seated and unpredictable behaviours in your partner - he may even promise to change now but how the heck can he without some big, big help? He doesn't sound like he even admits it's his problem so I would efinitely recommend that you walk NOW. You will be hit by your own anger later on, which is unpleasant but infinitely preferable to having it build up for years and then leave him.

He is possibly being this way as he is scared of comitment ie the wedding. Mine was the same, it got much worse in pregnancy. he had 'allowed' me to keep the baby, and saw ythat as his ticket to be as nasty and critical of me as he wanted - describing it as 'well if you're buying a sofa to last you the rest of your life, you want to make a few changes to it' to which I replied,' why didn't you get one you liked in the first place?'

The thing was all about he 'owned' me now, so was using it as a license to treat me like crap.

Yes, do not marry him. Really, really don't. He has huge issues and is probably even trying to provoke you into leaving so he doesn't have to face commitment.
He is not worth it, even if he is nice most of the time and a great dad. Not worth a second chance to whack you like that.

Sorry that was so long, it is painful to hear someone defending a man like this and being so unsure of whether it is unreasonable to be wary of him.

Please just imagine you are your own child, being treated like this even occasionally. Would you want her to be in this relationship?

Probably not.

Sorry for being harsh, I mean well

Hi Lucy,

Re your comment:-
"He has never actually hit me but does get fits of temper now and again which is usually when I have provoked him"

This man (your fiance) pushed you off a stool in front of your friends?!. What on earth did your friends think, did any of them say anything to him(bet they did not) and challenge his behaviour?. Again I think not. But it does not mean to say that what he did was right.

Your particular scenario actually reminds me of a domestic violence advert that was once shown on tv. Her friends who saw her being hit and verbally abused by her fiance just looked uncomfortable and ashamed.

There is NEVER any justification whatsoever for violence of any sort; be it verbal or physical.

Your words above are often spoken by domestic violence victims; the blaming of their own selves for the abuse is characteristic.

I would urge you not to marry this man but to walk away now whilst you still can.

You are both playing defined roles; him of the abuser, you as the victim to his abuse. And you are being abused by him, no two ways about it.

Would suggest you contact Womens Aid; they are very good. Will post up their details for you.

Wow. Okay I see two problems here.
One you think that you provoked him, by talking. I mean you don't even sound like you were slagging him off or slagging of his family, screaming, making fun of him, shouting etc. Not that provocation is an excuse, but from your description - you didn't even provoke it.

Two, he seems to fly of the handle a bit too easily, and expresses it physically. I would be wary of marrying. Most guys are on better behaviour before marrying, so I would be worried, that talking about things could result in this.

It would be interesting to hear what he thinks happened, but I can't imagine what it would be!

"In 'hit' I mean he has never punched me or anything, just lashed out or pushed"

Lucy

Read the above you wrote again.
You are also underplaying the violence he mets out towards you - again this is indicative of people who suffer domestic violence.

He is messing with you head playing nice and nasty with you. Small wonder you are confused.

I think he has tendencies towards being violent anyway even without drink fuelling it. This is also repeated behaviour - he's hit you once in front of your friends already. If he can do that what could he do at home?.

Are you wondering whether this situation will somehow right itself upon you marrying him?. The short answer to that is no, it will over time get worse for you. This is all about power and control; he wants power and control over you. He will do anything to bring you down. He can plead all he wants that he's sorry, such men often do not really mean it. He needs help for his anger problem but he has to want to seek that for his own self. You cannot do it for him.

Do not be anyone's punchbag; your self esteem is through the floor so you accept this. Your friends likely wonder why on earth you are with him; I bet his actions sent a chill through your friends.

Something else you may not have considered - they are afraid perhaps to speak out because you may defend him.

You have a daughter, she could potentially go on to meet someone violent herself and become a domestic violence victim.

You have some

If you marry this man he will beat you. Violence escalates once they get that ring on your finger. Once you are married to him he will get worse.

If he feels he can hit you - and stop trying to fool yourself that it's not really hitting you..IT IS - if he feels he can hit you before you're even married - when it's easier for you to walk away, trust me when I say you'll be posting on here ...

Please help me, my husband slammed my head against the wall because his dinner was late, he's gone out now, but I'm scared he will beat me again when he gets back from the pub.

You have a choice, and it's an easy one, Do NOT say "I do" to this man or you will spend your life in fear. If you marry him, you are consenting to a life of violence against you.

And what about your daughter? What if she gets in the middle of this? What about when she starts to realise dad hits mum? What when the time comes, and she's looking for a partner, if she repeats the pattern and finds a man who hits her too?

I suggest you spend some time looking through the archives on here and reading the stories of some of the women who have suffered domestic violence.

You are about to enter their world, when you should be running in the opposite direction.

www.womensaid.org.uk

You still have some power left; you don't have to marry this man. You can still walk away and create a nice life for you and your daughter without violence in it.

Violence is never acceptable in any circumstances.

Your fiancee pushes you off a chair and hits over you over the head...that is violent assault. He has got a major problem. No matter what you do or say, no man should ever hit you, especially not one that claims to love you. If you accept this, you are basically saying to your DF, your child and the world that it is ok. But it's not, is it? You know it isn't.

You say he hasn't hit you..but earlier you said a hit you across the head and pushed you off a chair, erm that's hitting! You need to get out, you are not provoking this - what would you say if this was your dd in years to come saying it must have been her fault, come on! In fact she is at risk of domestic violence when she is older as some woman who've experienced it in childhood unwittingly can end up in such relationships when older. Is this what you want? Many relationships like yours where a partner has been hit "only" once or twice get worse when they get married, i.e. violence gets much worse. Get out now, this man has no respect for women.
Sorry to sound so harsh, but you need to see how at risk you are

when i say "experienced it" in childhood, I meant "witnessed".
This man is manipulating your emotions making you think its your fault. You are not a "pain" he's just making you think that way - what a lovely man! Sounds graet marriage material - you deserve much much better for you and also dd.
No matter how much I sometimes rant at my dh he has never verabally abused or physically assaulted me, or looked as though he wanted to. Please get out!

DP hits you/pushes you off a chair/can't control his temper when he's had a few drinks....by you staying with this man/marrying him etc etc means you accept this type of behaviour then?

For your own safety and that of your child's you need to seriously re-think your future with him.

ahhhh.

Even if he was the best father in the world.

Even if he was the kindest most giving husband.

Even if you will never get one as 'good'

He has already broken that taboo. And once that "Do Not Physically Assault Your Girlfriend" taboo is broken, it's broken. It doesn't come back. He's not going to turn into a man who would never dream of hitting his wife - why would he? He has no reason to.

I know that 98% of the time, he is a marvelous man who you feel lucky to be associated with. And it is a shame that he is a violent brat for 2% of the time ... but his behavior 98% of the time does not make that 2% acceptable. If he was a mentally unstable smack addict, would you allow him to hit you round the head and push you off your chair? I'm guessing no. So, probably you are defending him because you think you must be awful for forcing this sort of aberrant behavior out of Decent Man?

Newsflash - if your talking to him can push him to his limits, his limits are too low.

I cannot convince you to leave him. You will probably have to hit your own personal taboo before you will believe that you are not, in fact, causing his behavior. Violence will escalate, it always does. His limit will shrink and shrink until all you will have to do is protest against his selfishness and he will attack you physically.

The question is, how far will you allow him to go before you start believing that you're not just getting what you deserve?

...and then a few years down the line, when your dd has seen this behaviour often enough, scared hiding under a table, or laying awake at night trembling, listening to the voices, and the sounds of daddy whacking mummy about, and you ask yourself, is it my fault that my dd is suffering now as I did not leave him when I could? And what will you do if he, accustomed to the learned fact that hitting and pushing you is ok, starts on your dd? Are you really willing for an innocent child to become a victim too?

Even if he never lays a hand on her, she will see what is going on, and it will influence her.

If you dont have enough self value to see that what he is doing is wrong, FGS protect your daughter.

TBH I would postpone the wedding and ask tht he get anger management classes - if he is willing to do this maybe you can start again - if not I don't see that you two have a future - you are always going to be on edge thinking what have I done wrong now and this is going to show, he will get wound up and then he'l push you off a chair, hit you in front of friends and if thats in public what will he do at home - also think if this was your daughter telling you this what would you tell her to do ???? I'm sorry to be frank but I think you should ditch the loser.

colditz - excellent post

No one is going to advise you to marry this man or accept his behaviour. It is unacceptable. It is NOT your fault. ANd if you don't gt away from him now, it will get worse, and worse, and worse, and you will spend time in hospital, and your children will be terrified - and later on, angry with ou for not leaving, and then there will be more hospital visits: broken fingers, cuts to be stitched up, burns to be dressed. Because what is frightening about THIS man is that he has no shame about his behaviour. He thinks it's perfetly all right to hit you and push you off your chair in public, so he's not going to restrain himself at all in private.

PLease leave him now, for your own sake, because you are worth much more than this, and for your daughter's sake, because this is no role model for her to grow up with.

From Womens Aid website about "what is domestic violence":

"...Physical violence: punching, slapping, hitting, biting, pinching, kicking, pulling hair out, pushing, shoving, burning, strangling."

I am so sorry to say this but it is not your fault. Making you think that way (that SPEAKING is provocation) is his way of the first bit of control. If it is your fault, he can do what he likes - it isn't anything to do with him; you made him.

I think you need to seriously consider the future.

I married a man that treated me appallingly - he called me all sorts of names (verbal abuse) and other stuff. I married him - too scared not to; didn't want to be a single mum, didn't want to show everyone that "I" had failed (as if it was MY fault)...

A few weeks after we got married, he started raping me (yes - it can happen in a relationship). He carried on the name calling, wouldn't let me speak to friends or have a phone, would lock me in the house and all sorts of stuff I have blocked out. He beat me up - nearly blinded me and that was the last straw (after a yr of constant other abuse - the hit was the last straw).

I left. He got his divorce petition in first and made it all out to be my fault. It wasn't - I only agreed because I wanted rid of him. He then took me to court for access (all part of the control) and didn't give up for 2 years, even though I was winning the fight - he never showed up and it took the court ages to realise that.

I forgot to mention - I left when ds was 6 months old. He had already been affected. He still is - he is 5yrs old now. He can't abide loud noise, sudden noise and fighting (as in play-fighting - general fun in a healthy relationship for example)

I feel horrendous that at SIX MONTHS OLD he was imprinted in this way - it is taking a LONG time to fix.

Please do not think your kids won't know - even if it happens outside the house; they will pick up the atmosphere.

It is not your fault.

It is nothing to be ashamed of.

Being single is hard - but it is a million times better than living in humiliation and violence.

Consider deeply where this will go - you have already shown that he has control over you. By NO fault of your own, you have been sucked in (as are all women in this situation - myself included) and don't think or actually - can't think it is as bad as it is.

Leave - show him you mean business. Get him to help himself - he will NEVER change for the better if you do not make a stand. I can absolutely guaruntee that it will get worse and worse and may even spread to other forms of violence.

0808 2000 247 - freephone, Women's Aid. They will tell you all you need to know and it doesn't come up on the phone bill.

Please, just think - please.

I am so sorry to say this but it is not your fault

I MEAN: I am sorry to say he is being violent... it is not your fault (didn't make sense the other way)

Lucy please get angry. Get defiant. How dare he think you are too stupid to leave him, because that is what he thinks believe me.

How dare he? Get really angry, get some support from your folks (ring them and say, 'I'm so sorry to ask but will you help me leave him?' and my guess is they will jump at the chance. T?hen tell him you are not going to0 put up with one more minute of the relationship, you don't want to hear from him again, and LEAVE.

Who is forcing you to be with a b*stard? Nobody. There are no rules as to whom you have to love.
The best thing about leaving my ex (apart from freeing my son from his abuse) was suddenly realising, that whatever happened next, no court in the land could ever force me to approve of him, or love him, or respect him. I was free.

You need to find yourself under all this and fight for her right to be angry!