Advice please - handling OH baggage

[SunnyDarren123]

Hi all, first time poster needing advice.

I met a girl (GF) on a dating app 3 months ago. We got on amazingly well, the connection was great: the laughter, the sensitive talks, deep and meaningfuls, talking about our fears and desires. Conversations were so easy.

She told me so much about her father passing away when she was 17.

Eventually we told each other about our past relationships and that's where my uncertainty lies.

This is basically what GF told me....

She had a boyfriend at university (BF1).

In 2014, aged 23, she dated a guy (BF2) for 2 years who was her best friend during university. But it started as an affair Because BF2 was in a relationship which GF knew about. So she was complicit in BF2 cheating. She calls him her first love/greatest love but it didn't work out cos she couldn't commit in the way BF2 wanted to.

BF2 got back with girl he'd cheated on, married her in 2017 and had a child in 2019.

Also in 2019 my GF told BF2 Alle feelings she'd had for him when they first dated and they then had a 6 month affair, after he's become a dad.

Eventually GF breaks off the affair and goes back to dating BF1, her uni boyfriend, for a year. That ended in December.

It's been 2 years but BF2 still contacts GF by email and even calls her mum occasionally!

GF admits she still loves BF2.

And this weekend the uni ex BF1, invited her to see his new flat and she intended to go until other plans got in the way.

SO... With the tendency to go back to ex's; the history of being complicit in affairs; not cutting off contact the ex's.... Should I persist? I really like GF.

All views/warnings welcome. Please be honest.

Thank you for bearing with me during my long post

rank. Not tank.

BF1 and 2 are both still in her life, so her desire to move on is not that strong. If she'd said she cut contact 2 yrs ago, then fair enough. She's immature at best and probably loves the drama. Of course she's going to say you might be the one, she's just luring you in and it's all new and exciting. Don't be pulled in, unless you want to get hurt?

“GF admits she still loves BF2.”

I couldn’t get beyond this.

Think about why it is that you are prepared to accept this as a backdrop for your relationship. I’d have dropped her like a sack of shit at that little revelation. What, are you supposed to compete?

“She's told me I'm slowly making her forget her ex's....???!?!”

She’s dangling you on a string to make you dance. She has also made it clear this will run to her indulgent time scale.

She can fuck off surely?

These are all abusive tactics. Do a quick Google of live bombing, triangulation and future faking. Narcissists thrive online because they can control their mask much better. Block and move on and maybe work on your boundaries. All these phone calls like someone else said, none of it is real until you have met them

5 hours on the phone That's not love, that's nowt else better to do.

5 hours on the phone talking about herself with an enthralled audience.
She’ll be loving this.

@Nbnbnb

What was a triangle of 'love', will soon become a rectangle of love.

Please don't be the unwitting pawn.

She loves the drama. All of it.

I really don't want to be a pawn, or another character in the drama. I know what she did was wrong. I'm torn because I began to like her so much by the time she shared her past and I don't fall for women easily

@joystir59

I've never started a relationship with someone who goes on and on about previous partners and is still in love with one of them. It is very unappealing to me. But crack on ..

She also asks me a lot of questions about my ex's. Which I found odd

“She says she's always been one to NoT express feelings but with me she finds herself telling me how she feels about me.” - That’s supposed to be flattering but to me it screams RED FLAG even more than her admitted issues with cheating and commitment. She’s implying that you can fix her shitty ways. It’s such an immature way to behave. If she wanted to change because she fears this ‘karma’ or she has actually grown and doesn’t want to be a twat anymore - she would do that herself.

She’s love bombing you and making you responsible for her ‘behaving’. Of course she’ll be happy to ‘misbehave’ whenever she feels like it because she hasn’t changed has she? She hasn’t broken anything off properly with her affair partner and is still dangling the other uni guy on a string too.

Now she’s got you as well! Funny eh how much you two have in common? How perfect she seems for you. How lovely she comes across to you. Yet she’s perfectly capable of all you describe. Look up love bombing and mirroring.

I’d not go any further with her if i were you.

I’m 45 now and long past the stage of wasting my time on people who can take or leave me just because I like them...and that’s in all areas.

A disaster waiting to happen. Way too much baggage. Walk away

I have a male friend who always goes for women like this. It's maddening. He's had some lovely, pretty girlfriends who in all honesty were too good for him and who he was lucky to be with, but dumped them because they were 'boring'. They weren't boring, they just weren't the self absorbed narcissists he seems to be obsessed with. They were stable, supportive and kind, but he keeps going for these drama queens and then getting upset and hurt when it all goes spectacularly wrong.

What's really annoying is the way he tries to defend them like you are doing. Their actions and behaviour point to them being horrible people but he always insists they aren't, and I just don't understand. His latest girlfriend is 24 (he's 39!) and started dating him while still with her ex. She's flaky and immature and untrustworthy but he's convinced that they have something special. He literally says this about all of them. He complained about a previous girlfriend using him for money when she lost her job through no fault of her own and couldn't pay the rent for a month or two while she looked for a new one, yet he's happy for this one to move in totally rent-free after 4 months of knowing her because 'I want a nice flat than she can afford so it makes sense'. It's just bizarre the way he lies to himself. It's like in his head, being 'hot' just outweighs absolutely everything else and he overlooks all kinds of terrible flaws.

Do you want to be like this? Pushing 40 and chasing after head-melting young women while all your friends are settling down?

She also asks me a lot of questions about my ex's. Which I found odd

Abusers do this - they want to find your pain points so they can control you more effectively. EG if you've been abused in the past they love it because now they've got 2 very effective tactics:

Firstly they will tell you that they will never hurt you like X did because they TRULY love you. And because their abuse is more covert and subtle than an actual punch in the face, you believe this bullshit line that they are a loving, kind person who would never abuse you.

Secondly, when you do start realising that their behaviour is wrong in some way, and you dare to call them out on it, they will lash out and use your prior abuse to wound you. For example "Jesus, sometimes I can really understand why X would hit you. I would never do that but you're really fucking pushing it now" or "Maybe you should ask yourself why you've been treated so badly in the past... I'm not really surprised if you bully people like you are me" (because you dared to ask them to stop flirting with all and sundry, or to maybe pick up their shit-stained pants off the floor and actually put them in the washing machine.)

This woman is all kinds of wrong. She will fuck you up, mate. Don't go there. Just move on. There are plenty of nice, decent human beings out there who are just as good in bed. Don't fall for her manipulation.

You haven't answered the questions about whether you've actually met...

Can I also ask whether you've been sexting and exchanging photos?

@LobotomisedIceSkatingFan

1) I mean she thinks she's very sophisticated, but in fact has an incredibly adolescent view of relationships.

2. Yes; I absolutely mean she makes you jump through hoops. She obviously believes any man worth his salt has to either be won in battle, or be prepared to constantly compete with the spectres of past boyfriends. What a fucking enormous drag.

'She's not felt like this about someone since BF2, and that she didn't think she could feel like this for someone again.'

Nice juicy, promising piece of bait she's dangling there.

Makes me want to sink to my knees and thank God I've never met her. C'mon, Darren. You can do better than this silly little girl.

Almost makes me relieved I'm plain.

2 words hit me. Adolescent and battle. And bait, actually.

I didn't realise until now but she does switch from head strong to damsel in distress frequently

When I read your title, I just thought it shouldn't be that you have to handle the other person's baggage. It's for them to manage. If they're unable to have a relationship with you without visiting their past relationships on you, they're not really ready or suitable for you to be in a relationship with.

I didn't really need to read the thread. My opinion remains the same.

We don't need to expect perfection from a relationship, but a new partner shouldn't be attempting to clear the rubbish for the person. It's their stuff to handle.

Sorry op but the early oversharing, the 'I think I'm falling for you' super early and historic relationship drama all spell out disaster. She sounds horribly self absorbed and a little narcissistic so as sad as it feels, you'd be safer walking away and going with your gut on this, chemistry or no chemistry.

Dear God. Not true or at least it won't be true for long.

Get rid. She sounds dreadful. Probably a narc.

OP if you're feeling gutted now about ending something that hasn't even started, bottle that feeling and times it by ten for how you'll feel when she does the dirty on you too. She's BLATANTLY showing you who she is, believe her!

[quote Isadora2007]@SunnyDarren123
Your gut is telling you this isn’t quite right. Your hormones are trying to override this instinct as they want you to mindlessly shah her anyway. But you sound like a decent and honest guy so you WILL get hurt. Yes it’s okay to have baggage and a GF who can talk about her last isn’t necessarily a bad thing at all. But what this one is saying IS bad news- and she’s not over BF2 and she has disgusting morals (or none).
Tell her that if she is in any way serious about a future with you she can get counselling and contact you down the line once she has resolved her issues as you’re not her social experiment. Have some dignity and self respect as you are worth so much more.[/quote]
You're right, my head and heart are telling me different things.

@SortingItOut

She is love bombing you with phrases like 'she's never felt like this about anyone since BF2' and 'i never discuss my feelings with anyone but I can with you'

She wants you to feel special and wanted so you fall for her.

Why are you having these 4-6 hour phone calls?
In the early stages of dating no one does that and no one pours their heart out about previous relationships either. Seems like an oversharer to me.
Have you even met or has this connection happened by phone calls and messages? This relationship isn't real until you've met.

The phone calls just happened. But yes, they were very long to start with.

Is oversharing so bad?

Yes we've met several times. The connection was established by phone but evolved in person

Oversharing is bad, its a sign of lack of boundaries.

Women are encouraged to not overshare when dating as you can be putting yourself in a vulnerable position.

Also it could be a sign that she is trying to make you jealous as she has all these men who want her and you're lucky to have her - possibly narcissistic.

@ItsNotLoveActually

BF1 and 2 are both still in her life, so her desire to move on is not that strong. If she'd said she cut contact 2 yrs ago, then fair enough. She's immature at best and probably loves the drama. Of course she's going to say you might be the one, she's just luring you in and it's all new and exciting. Don't be pulled in, unless you want to get hurt?

Definitely hasn't cut contact. I'm not the type of guy to demand that or give an ultimatum.

Maybe I should be.
I definitely don't want to get hurt. I wish I could delete the perception I have (that she created?) before I learned details of her past relationships

So you met a really hot girl and seemed to have loads in common and started falling for her.

Then she told you she is still in love with someone else and is a cheater. So now you are sad and wish you could go back to when you thought this could be love.

But you can’t change her. If you stay with her she will eventually cheat on you with BF2. And your knowledge that you can’t trust her will poison the relationship.

I’d just like to point out how very weird it is that she told you all this. She’s trying to make you compete for her attention/affection. If she was serious about moving on from her past she wouldn’t be telling you she loves someone else.

Have you told her you don’t want to know this level of detail about her exes? Not in a ´this is a forbidden topic’ kind of way but more in a ´this is not a helpful convo to have with me as your current bf’ kind of way. She might stop or reduce the comparisons. I had a tendency to compare bfs and exes when I was younger. It was partly to do with wanting to know what sexual health risks I was taking with a new partner and partly to do with slowly getting over my first ever teenage bf who I fell for hard. I stopped because it was irrelevant to my partner and he just didn’t want to hear about it and I could respect that. I also had to accept that I wasn’t going to get the level of detail about his exes that I thought I wanted (I really didn’t care from a relationship/drama/comparison point of view, it was more about the sexual health risks stuff).