Times have changed and the origins of my relationship are... Unravelling

[Belltolls]

Over the last year or so I have been thinking increasingly about the origins of my relationship. I basically got involved with my DH when I was 15/16 (nothing Sexual happened till I was well past 16). Ten years older than me, had his own car, good job, decent bloke, still is. Met him because he was a coach in the team I played on.
Been together fairly happily for twenty years.
But, now I have twins approaching that age and I'm kind of horrified at the thought that they might do this. It's really really confusing. I got married at 22, no one ever really said anything to me about my relationship being inappropriate?! Is it? Was it?
I feel like I'm coming apart at the seams here.

@Jobsharenightmare

To me it isn't about age per se, it's about the power differential inherent in the context in which the relationship developed. That is what I would be concerned about if you had been my child.

Have you thought about processing your feelings with a counsellor? It's completely understandable this is tricky for you now with your own child reaching this age.

I agree with this. Please get some counselling to help you work out what you want to do.

What your husband did was not illegal at the time but that doesn’t make it ok.

In 2001 the law in the Uk was changed to make it illegal for teachers, doctors etc to have a sexual relationship with their pupils under 18. Most teacher contracts and safe guarding codes of practice forbid having any kind of private relationship with pupils and they would no doubt get fired even if they could not be prosecuted.

The law will soon be extended to sports coaches.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sports-coaches-barred-sex-teens-care-f2zf729hd

What your husband did would break the safeguarding rules of every single sport in the Uk today. I don’t know what the rules were 20 years ago.

I’m sorry that none of the adults who knew about what was happening to you stepped in to protect you. I’m sure you think you didn’t need protecting and that you “ consented”. But the imbalance of power and control means that you were in fact incapable of giving informed consent.

I have some personal experience of this, as I have a child of 15 who does sport at national level. The codes of conduct are incredibly strict.

Coaches don’t have the phone numbers or emails of children, they go through the parents.

They never have personal phone calls or discuss any personal matters, unless they are related to their sport eg health or school problems.

They don’t have the kids on social media.

They don’t take kids alone in their cars.

They don’t go in the changing rooms, toilets or showers when the kids are in.

When they stay away overnight at events there’s always an adult of both sexes, sometimes a parent.

When they have meetings / discussions with the kids they are in a public place with others around. When they meet alone with a child behind closed doors they always have a parent ( or suitable adult ) present.

They avoid touching the kids if at all possible. They use videos or other kids to demonstrate the correct position or manoeuvre.

Any of my child’s coaches would be fired if they had a secret and intimate relationship with my child, even if that did not become sexual until the child is 16.

I know it must be hard to read all this and I’m sure it’s hurtful. But I think you know deep down that what happened wasn’t right and you need some expert and confidential help to work this through.

You’ve been married 20 years to a decent bloke, your words. We all think at times, what if? But the what if of our imagination is always better than our current situation when in fact it could have turned out to have been much worse. You wouldn’t have had your twins for a start, maybe you would have married a man who wasn’t decent. Your twins being 15 has reminded you of how young you were to start on a serious relationship, and maybe you were but it has turned out ok. Don’t dwell on the past, think of the future that you will share with that decent man, watching the twins grow and mature, having children of their own. Don’t throw your future away, make a happy home for your family.

I haven't really done anything that my friends have done... Clubbing (never been), holidays with friends (nope), nights out (can count on one hand). I saw a meme on Facebook the other night about being thankful there weren't photos of girls nights out years ago and I cried because I never did that.

I'm still unsure why you haven't done any of these things. Most people in relationships still those things - is that he vetoed them or you werent really interested? It seems like you over-invested in your relationship from a young age and neglected other area of your life and personal growth but he didn't actually stop you? I have a friend who is married to someone 15 years older than her but has always still done her own thing work friends and still does!

Do you think you've outgrown him now? It's never too late to get a good bunch of friends and have some fun and some experiences independently of your husband.

Decent men don't pursue relationships with children. That's what you were, a child. And he was a grown man. And what a lot of bullshit that men are 'not mature' at that age. They still know right from wrong. Oh boo hoo, won't anyone think of the poor, blameless men 😒

Reverse the roles - would you have pursued a relationship with a boy had the boy been your age and you been your husband's age?

I can't recall if he still coaches kids - sorry if you mentioned that. I hope not.

I think that he sounds like he should have known better and backed off until you were older. That's a error of judgment rather than predatory. He didn't relentlessly pursue you, pressured you into sex or go against your parents wishes.

But, you are (presumably) happily married and he is a kind and decent partner. I appreciate you have some regrets about "missing out" but you are still young! What's stopping you living a full life now?

The age difference between you and your spouse is another matter. Today it would be considered a serious breach of conduct on his part, but 20 years ago it was a viewed differently. I’m not saying it doesn’t matter, but what is done is done. As I said before, don’t let the past ruin your future.

@bossyrossy

The age difference between you and your spouse is another matter. Today it would be considered a serious breach of conduct on his part, but 20 years ago it was a viewed differently. I’m not saying it doesn’t matter, but what is done is done. As I said before, don’t let the past ruin your future.

It was illegal 20 years ago.

I think 99 times out of 100, this sort of relationship is dodgy. But you sound like you could well be the 1 out of a hundred.

My best friend had this at school. Her BF, now DH was just a little immature and was v shy and quiet. They’ve been married very happily for nearly 20 years and he’s a v successful engineer. (I say this to evidence that although he was slow to develop, he did mature socially / emotionally / etc to hold down a very demanding job).

In fact I have another friend who was the same. Also very happily married to a very decent, but quiet and shy, bloke.

It does happen.

It was illegal 20 years ago.

What was? They didn't have any physical relationship until she was in the 6th form. It might have been an inappropriate friendship, but friendship is not illeagal at any age?

I would definitely not like a 25 year old man showing an interest in my 15 year old daughter and would actively discourage any contact.
He's an adult and she's a child. Totally inappropriate.

@bossyrossy

The age difference between you and your spouse is another matter. Today it would be considered a serious breach of conduct on his part, but 20 years ago it was a viewed differently. I’m not saying it doesn’t matter, but what is done is done. As I said before, don’t let the past ruin your future.

It really wasn't viewed differently.

OP, I think the fact that these worries and feelings are coming up for you shouldn't be ignored. I think you should face them and process them, probably with the help of a counsellor/therapist.

Whatever has happened since, the way your relationship began was wrong. No question in this, it was absolutely and fundamentally wrong. For me that calls his character and his intentions into question.

Good men don't start relationships with school children they are coaching regardless of when the sexual relationship started.

Are you concerned about his behaviour since? I would be worried if he was still coaching young people because at best he's shown he has very poor professional boundaries.

It's a lot to think about but as I said at the beginning, don't crush down or bury these feelings, face them.

All that aside, you don't sound happy. You are clearly questioning your relationship and whether you feel you have missed out on life experiences/ rites of passage. I think it's important that you reflect on why you think that is. Do you think your husband stopped you or held you back?
You don't need to have been expressly stopped or told no to feel that you can't or shouldn't do something.

Reading your posts, I have alarm bells because even before you were married, you weren't allowed to be a teen/young adult.
Do you think your husband was/is coercive/controlling?

OP times have changed in 20 years. Only you know on reflection what your husband's motives were. From reading your posts, he sounds like a decent guy who has provided for you and your children and treats everyone well. Your relationship has stood the test of time. The cost of that relationship seems to be experiences in your youth which you indicate were more your doing than his - as you went with the flow of his preferences. If you are happy with your relationship still, its a case of carving a social life out for yourself by having a good group of friends and doing some of things you feel you missed out on. Your husband may or may not want to join in on some of these things. The only problem I foresee is if he notices these changes in your behaviour and he doesn't like them - ie not having his wife at home with him all the time.

I know a few couples who met at similar ages with a similar gap, including my parents. All the women would describe the men as "good men" when they would be widely perceived by others as controlling men. My father's favourite phrase to my mother and his daughters is that we need to "fit in". Your relationship may be different. No harm in thinking about it though.

Hi @Belltolls,

I am curious as to whether you were happy as a schoolgirl? Did you have many friends or close friends back then? Did you have goals or things you wanted to achieve as a child?

I think it is fairly normal to reach certain milestones in life and reflect back on our lives.

At 16, in 6th form, I went out with a 20 year old. As did most of my mates. I thought he and his mates were so much more worldly and to be fair, they'd been working since 17 or 18, so were still more worldly than the lads I met later, in uni.

A 26 year old would have been a massive she difference at 16. 20 yr old men are still kids really; just about. 26 year olds really aren't.

I also don't buy the '16 year old girls are so much more mature than 16yr old boys'. They may act it, but 20 years of experience tells me that they're kids.

At 21,I lived with a 31 yr old for 2 years. I had no fun. Granted, he was a twat, but I def felt like I missed out due to his being done with clubbing etc.

@Todayisontheup very difficult adolescence. He knew about some of it and was fairly supportive. Yes I did have friends and still speak fairly regularly to them now.
To people asking me if he's controlling... Uhm I genuinely don't know. I don't think so but I haven't got any relationships to compare it to?!
One of the sort of confusing things about my feelings is that i haven't got any experience at all to compare my experiences to and particularly very few positive examples of relationships in my life. So questioning this and the nature of the origins is so incredibly difficult because I haven't got points of reference. For all I know we could have the happiest relationship of anyone I know, or I could be deeply in some sort of Stockholm syndrome and just waking up to it. I honestly don't know.

This made me spit my wine tonight :
"I met my DH when I was seven and he was 92, there was no abuse it was my decision" and the other half screaming grooming if one partner was twenty minutes older than the other.
@dontbeme

@bossyrossy yes I do count my blessings and I also don't think I want to fuck up my future because of this. But someone made a comment about a gilded cage which hit a nerve. I suppose how far should I put my own needs to realise myself aside in favour of a comfortable lifestyle. I don't know. I think I need to be more grateful for things.

There is a bit of information on here www.nationaldahelpline.org.uk/en/What-is-abuse

I was looking for quotes for you but I did one and apparently I’m at risk of abuse as I have less friends now than I do when I met DH, that’s not his fault, just people moving, get married, having kids etc.

Times were very different 20 years ago. A girl in my sixth form was friends with our drama teacher and he used to go home to hers for dinner and they officially hooked up when she left school. Her parents thought he was great.

A friend mum was a teacher and was dating a sixth former and they have now been married nearly 20 years.

My cousin and his DW dated from when they were both 15 and both say they missed out on a lot of the fun things you described. So I don’t know if the age gap meant you did specifically miss out on clubbing etc.

My priority would be working out if my relationship was abusive at the moment and getting some therapy and working out what you want to do going forward.

@Belltolls

I haven't really done anything that my friends have done... Clubbing (never been), holidays with friends (nope), nights out (can count on one hand). I saw a meme on Facebook the other night about being thankful there weren't photos of girls nights out years ago and I cried because I never did that. But on the other hand, our relationship is OK, our children are wonderful. But *@therocinante* you're right I am shaken by it, and it is affecting our relationship because I am doubting everything now and now I'm getting older I can see how I have missed out on a lot of things I should have tried. But being fair, I might not have liked those things anyway?!

This is really sad. Why is it that you never did these things? Being in a relationship shouldn't be so all consuming that it prevents you from having your own life, outside of what you do with your partner.

I have been with my DH since I was 19, but I've still had nights out and trips away without him while we've been together.

@Belltolls

There is 100% an imbalance of power. There always has been based on age and financial reasons. However, I am not living in poverty (in fact I am living in a nice house with a nice garden in a nice area and may not have been able to do that on my own anyway?). He's a nice man, good salary. In fact him being older than me meant we were able to get on the property ladder sooner than most of my friends. There is no doubt that in many ways I have benefitted from the relationship (looking at it from a transactional perspective).

It's interesting that your 'but' in this post relates to material aspects of the relationship, and not love/ respect/ companionship.

I have a friend who was 16, and started going out with a 25 year old who I think was in a more senior position to her at work. Her Dad went up the wall, which is understandable. She is now 36, he is 47 and they are married with two children and have been together for 20 years! I think this is rare though, there does seem to be something predatory about a 25 year old going after a 16 year old girl. You don’t see it when you are that age though.

It can be very unsettling when your children reach an age which was a milestone for you. It raises lots of questions and seeing differences between their lived and yours can be challenging. I would recommend working through these feelings with a therapist if you can.

OP, it concerns me that you are allowing posters to project and call him a paedophile, a groomer, etc etc etc.

Do you feel that way or are you just not happy in your marriage ?

I can empathise with a lot of this OP.

I met a boyfriend when I was 18 and we were together until I was 25. He was 15 years older than me and already divorced with kids.

Being objective, I did miss out on a lot that my peers were doing - eg I lived with him for uni rather than halls. I didn't have wild nights out, I spent time with his kids on a weekend. BUT I honestly was perfectly happy at the time - financially I benefited a lot as I spent 6 years at uni I would have struggled to afford otherwise. He never stopped me from going out, but he certainly wouldn't have joined me and so it always felt A bit weird to go without him. Possibly controlling maybe - I felt he would look down on me for being childish if I came back drunk.

The biggest difference is we split up, didn't marry & have kids. I had a great time being single for a few years before then meeting DH & settling down again.

I would not want my daughter at 18 to go live with a 30 odd year old with kids. BUT I hope I will give her a more stable life than I had which will mean she's less likely to want to.

@Butwasitherdriveway

OP, it concerns me that you are allowing posters to project and call him a paedophile, a groomer, etc etc etc.

Do you feel that way or are you just not happy in your marriage ?

It concerns me that this is the bit that bothers you, not a man in a position of authority starting an inappropriate relationship with a child.