Had enough of DH’s ‘rules’ and angry outbursts

[sweetpea36]

Apologies in advance for the long post.
As an example - recently DS (aged 8) had taken my iPad up to bed without asking and hidden it, DH had apparently told him before that if he did that again he wouldn’t have screen time the next day. He came down and told me this, I said I wasn’t keen to limit screen time the next day as I’ve been feeling unwell, have both the kids on my own at home (school hols) and didn’t really want the stress of limiting screen time when I’m not well. DH clearly not happy and asked what I was going to do as punishment, I said I didn’t know. He kept asking, I said I was tired and not well so I couldn’t really get my head round it right now. Then he asked when would I decide then, I said I didn’t know, he kept on and on asking what was I going to do. Eventually I got snappy and said do you realise you sound controlling? He said he wasn’t being controlling & became really angry, told me to f**k off, stormed out slamming the door loudly and left the house. Came back a short time later but didn’t speak to me and went straight to the spare room.
In the meantime DS came down asking why was Daddy shouting and slamming the doors. He ended up in bed with me as he couldn’t sleep.
This isn’t the first outburst like this, the other week DH tried to drag DS up stairs to bed when he wouldn’t go up on time. He later apologised to DS & to me saying he was tired and shouldn’t have lost his temper. Also during home schooling, DH texted me when I was out at work (I’m in a key worker job) saying he couldn’t cope with DS - they argued over some homework and he was so angry he left DS on his own and went for a walk, he was out less than 5 minutes but I was angry he’d left him alone in the house. Again he apologised to DS later.
Then there was the time last year we were on holiday, he wanted to have a ‘no screens on holiday’ rule before 5pm. I let DS play Pokemon on my iPhone for 10 mins when DH had gone running and I was in a cafe having lunch with the kids, he was so furious he was in a bad mood with me the rest of the week and refused to be affectionate in any way for the entire holiday!
He seems to have a big anger problem around the kids and rules, he wants set rules for screen time, bed time and how much sweets or biscuits are eaten.
I don’t know if I should be a stricter parent, but I end up being less strict just to balance out him and his rules. Is it confusing for the kids if I don’t follow the same rules as him? I’m actually really fed up of living with all these rules and angry outbursts and think he’s being controlling.
I think his frustration comes from a place of wanting good things for them overall, but he’s too rigid about it. A lot of the time he’s actually a lot more patient than me with the kids but he just can’t stand it if the rules aren’t stuck to.
Would appreciate any balanced views if anyone managed to read all this, as I just don’t know any more.

My brother is alot like this, rules and punishments. His older child moved away rarely sees him now, and when the youngest has to visit, (parents have split up) she spends all of her time in her bedroom. They don't like him much.

Hmm he sounds controlling.

Did you have any child free time the day your DH went for a run?

I remember you from previous writings and I actually stated at that time he is abusive towards you,

Do not let this further become the norm for your children as well, you’ve been thoroughly dragged down here by him and now your children are being affected by his abuse too.

My brother is alot like this, rules and punishments. His older child moved away rarely sees him now,

Was his own childhood fair and happy?

My DB was useless and irregular at discipline but then my own DF was useless, not really involved in the DCs so a v poor example.

@sweetpea36

I can see how some of the 'anger' your H exhibits could be attributed to him feeling 'powerless' because you've undermined 'his' authority

But I'm more struck by how he sets all the rules which apply to everyone in the family except him

He cannot blame you for him behaving like a bratty 2 yr old when having a 'meltdown' over homework

The fact that he thinks it's ok for him to decide all the 'rules is not ok.

The fact that you are scared to say ''H, I don't agree with this 'rule' on holiday actually speaks louder to me about what the 'issue' actually is.

It's not about having a 'well behaved' child, it's about your H needing to be the Boss and his anger when you and DC break his rules.

If you don't feel able to 'talk' to him calmly about the whole 'parenting rules' issues, then I'd advise splitting up, because if you don't feel you can talk to him without fear of another angry outburst, then you're living in fear of him, and that never works out well for the women and children, does it ?

But if you feel you can talk to him calmly about deciding on jointly agreed parenting rules, which he also has to stay and help enforce calmly, then I'd say that is a conversation which is long overdue.

The thing with parenting and rules is that it can't be completely black and white in the way your DH seems to want. There are times when the rules won't work or should not apply - on holiday, for instance, or when one parent is ill. And believe me, children understand the difference between 'normal' and 'exceptions' from a very young age.

The root issue as I see it is your DH's need to be in absolute control of all the rules, including applying them to you. That forces you to behave in ways you don't agree with, because you fear his reaction if you don't go along with his rules as set. He's incapable of flexible thinking, so he gets angry. You end up being the wishy washy parent because you're torn between wanting to protect your DC and being afraid of your DH. It really isn't sustainable.

If you think he's able to see your point of view and make changes to his rigid thinking, by all means try counselling. But I think you'll be on a hiding to nowhere, and you'll be better off on your own, parenting your DC with rules that you have set and are comfortable with.

Lastly, a united front isn't OK when one parent is being manifestly unreasonable. Been there, chose not to do that.

@pointythings - bang on. "...torn between wanting to protect your DC and being afraid of your DH". This was me to a T until I left 18 months ago, and, as you say, utterly unsustainable for the sake of my sanity. I felt terribly guilty for a long time about 'undermining' my husband. In the end, though, I disagreed with his parenting approach to the very core of my being. The most important thing in the world to me is having my children know I have their back and that their home is a safe haven.

I actually think you are both bu and need to find some common ground.

The no screen rule I think is great, but you under minded him, letting the dc have 10 mins whilst he's out for a run just gives the kids the impression that Mum will let them but Dads the bad guy, so I can see why he'd be annoyed, but to effectively sulk for the remainder of the holiday is ridiculous behaviour.

I think you both need to sit down and discuss it, you both need to be more supportive of each other.

When you're sick and it's difficult to enforce a consequence you both need to agree one that you can enforce, he you agree on something (no screen time on holiday), you both stick to it. Home schooling is tough, both help, he needs to stop his out bursts and you need to back him up.

@pointythings, perfect response.

Op,if you feel you can't ever compromise and your H feels slighted if he isn't in control then you have a toxic situation.

Have you ever read books on controlling behaviours?

My mum gave me one piece of parenting advice: never threaten anything you aren't prepared to carry out.

Teaching children that you mean what you say is vital. However meaning what you say doesn't have to be huge to be impactful.
If you know you like screens for babysitting (who doesn't?) Then it's much better to punish by taking the screen for an hour and actually doing it for the full hour, than to threaten to take it for a week and give it back after 5 days.

At the moment your dh is setting punishments that are beyond your capacity to carry out. You need a previously agreed "tariff" that both of you can hold to. You are undermining him and allowing your ds in your bed after he (ds) did something he knew was not allowed and was sneaky was poor on your part. DS is sneaky with screens because his dad is unreasonable. You undermine him because his punishments are justified in timing and trigger but too severe in scope. You need to sit down and make a plan when you are both calm. Both of you are in the wrong imo.

Sounds like he likes rules for the sake of rules. Personally I don’t like rules, but guidelines— ie bed by 8 pm etc — if it gets to 8.10 you say — xxxx it’s past 8 , off to bed you go and you follow that through. If they’ve been on their phone 15 minutes you say — put your phone down xyz you’ve had 15 minutes and that’s enough. If you are ill and having to enforce it I don’t care if they watch Mary poppins all day. Surely a holiday is about people doing stuff they enjoy, not sticking to a rigid rules timetable

Sorry I haven’t disappeared, have just been rushing around getting the kids to school!
The fog is starting to clear a bit and issues becoming clearer with all the strong advice on here.
No it’s not a new issue, just didn’t want to make the OP into an essay by going into all the background, he’s been controlling and angry a lot over the years on & off but more with me, I think it’s seems to be getting more directed at the kids as they get older. I’ve asked him to get some counselling for his angry behaviour but that makes him more angry and defensive, as he doesn’t want to feel like the problem is just him. We did once go to Relate, but it didn’t seem to make any difference, I’m not sure if that’s because we weren’t getting to the real issue.
I’d like to try having a calm discussion with him and agreeing some rules, it just always seems to turn into an argument when we try and talk about it. But that could partly be because I feel so defensive about it all? Maybe I am not listening properly to him. It’s just like a fog comes down when I try and talk to him, I can’t see through it to why, and I end up crying and upset.
About screens, the kids don’t have their own so I have to lend them mine if they want to do anything as he won’t let us buy them a Kindle or iPad, and won’t let them on his, however they are only 8&6 so I think maybe they are a bit young. Possibly it would be easier to control though if they had one screen of their own & then it could be taken away if needed? I did suggest this the other day but he just said no.
It’s confusing because in other ways he’s a great dad, he will take them out on walks etc and do outdoor stuff with them and be really interactive and involved. I’ve considered splitting but worry the issue would then become more polarised with the kids confused between 2 parenting styles, even if we weren’t together I would like them to have some harmony and consistency in their lives.
About the holidays, I don’t mind him going off for a run as he loves running in new places & would be happy for me to do something on my own in return. It was more that I felt railroaded into accepting a rule I didn’t even agree with.
I probably do need to be stricter. I feel exhausted a lot of the time and unable to switch off and relax at home.

I totally get how you feel, I have a drama llama H too who easily gets angry about compete trivia , it’s very wearing and you end up yourself feeling worn down and just wanting an easy life with kids. I have gone along with it for 25 years and now no kids around, he hasn’t changed, I just get the venting instead, so I would say it’s make or break and you tell him exactly how you feel and that he needs to cool it, if he cools it you will have more mental energy — I wish I had been much firmer about not accepting aggressive controlling behaviour many years ago

The person you need to be 'stricter' with is your controlling abusive H!!

WTF? He tells you when you are allowed to use your phone?!

No. Just no. Forget all about 'communicating' - this isn't even an issue about parenting styles. He is abusive.

It's not just up to him. If he understood and respected that, like a non-abusive person who doesn't assume he gets to be in charge of what his partner does, as if shes another child too, this wouldn't be happening.

You would have discussed the screen time thing. You would have said 'No, I don't agree. I'm with the children more than you and when I'm with them that won't suit me.'

And the thought that he would even think to tell you when you can go on your own phone-!

Yes you do need to communicate. You need to get your courage together and communicate to him that you have had enough. It ISN'T up to him to set rules and he is not the boss of the family or of you. If he cannot a. start respecting your right to decide too, and stop being a controlling aggressive angry shit to his children then you will split.

As an aside. His rules also sound particularly miserable, joyless, regimented, for no reason - as if he just enjoys controlling people, rather than the reason for the rules being the smooth running of everything. No tv before 5. A rule like that, on holiday? With your own children? When it should be about ease, relaxing, fun?

He's just nasty by the sound of it. He doesn't strive to make them happy, he strives to make them obey. It gives him pleasure.

So when you think of splitting, think about the effects of them living in a home like that all through their childhoods, or one balanced with a happier, more relaxed home where people have their wishes listened to, where peace reigns not because of some iron fist in the background but because people enjoy one another's company and are happy to work together.

Better two homes where they are shown that the way this dictator wants things to be is wrong.

Oh my god OP, please re-read what you are writing and imagine you are listening to a friend. I don't know why you think your husband's behaviour is ok. He is being an utter dick. I hear that you would love to sit and chat this through with him but you have told us repeatedly that you can not because he gets angry and storms off. On what planet of adulthood is that ok? Your lovely children are learning all manner of crap about how to treat people from this manchild. Please put yourself in their shoes if you can't get perspective for yourself and decide if you want their home environment to be full of shouting and door slamming and passive aggressive crap. If you separate at least they will only have a dilute form of his rage as you will be their central home life. Perhaps you are slightly on the relaxed side with boundaries but I would take that any day over furious rage. Please OP. Please consider this for yourself carefully and the mental health of your children.

OP you an your husband need to set the rules together and then back each other up in applying them.

Your husband seems to be setting rules and expecting you to obey; he's not your dad or your line manager and he doesn't get to do that. Children need firm and clear boundaries and they thrive with them, so you both need to be on the same page.

He sounds very frustrated and angry but it's difficult to see why. From your perspective, he sounds controlling and dictatorial but I would be really frustrated and upset if I was trying to instill reasonable discipline such as limits on screen time and sugar and was being undermined at every turn.

I would contact someone like Gingerbread about parenting courses and take it from there. If, once you're both on the same page he's the same eg has just found another outlet for his temper, then you have a much bigger problem.

And furthermore, storming out on our kids during lockdown over home schooling was something probably ever single parent in the UK wanted to do at some point over lockdown but we just couldn't do it. Because we are parents and that means we have to get over ourselves, suck it up, and get on with it. Why your 'd'h thinks that doesn't apply to him is anybody's guess. Your thread has made me so angry. He is clearly chipping away at your self esteem and you are letting him. Please don't do this to yourself. You are a keyworker and we need you. You deserve a happy home life.

You are stressed because you are married to an abuser. Everything else is a result of that. Get rid of the abuser and the other issues recede.

I’d like to try having a calm discussion with him and agreeing some rules, it just always seems to turn into an argument when we try and talk about it. But that could partly be because I feel so defensive about it all? Maybe I am not listening properly to him. It’s just like a fog comes down when I try and talk to him, I can’t see through it to why, and I end up crying and upset.

This sounds like you are being abused. The way you describe being unable to have a calm conversation and ending up in tears, sounds like he's abusive.

OP you need to leave - he is so strict with them and I think your initial post got a lot of responses that relate to a entirely different situation to the one you find yourself in.

You I think have been able to manage his outbursts (you shouldnt have to) but your children wont be able to and he is now taking his anger out on them.

Exactly what does dragging mean for not going to bed? Its not the rules per se but his reponse to them

OP, being fluent in technology will be as vital for the next generation as reading is for ours. Does he deny them writing implements? Books? They need access to tech to become fluent in it.

Your idea of having a shared device for them is actually sensible - it means that you can set boundaries around its availability and be very clear on that. The fact that your husband doesn't get this is concerning.

I'm also worried about the fact that you have tried to discuss this with him and have ended up feeling foggy and defensive - that should not happen in a discussion between two reasonable people. My late husband was a master gaslighter and made me feel just like that, until one day I stood up to him and just refused to engage with the gaslighting. But it takes a lot of strength to draw a line and tell someone like that 'No'.

I gather you are a SAHM or very part time - therefore you spend more time with the DC and know their ways best. You should have considerable input in how domestic rules are applied, and what those rules are. And without flexibility, rules become unworkable. I don't think your husband is trying to instil reasonable rules around screen time and healthy eating at all - I think he is trying to dominate absolutely.

Lastly, if you split up, there would be no confusion. There would be 'rules for at Dad's house' (for however long your DC wanted to continue contact after the age where they could refuse) and 'rules for at Mum's house'. Your DC would handle that.

If you've already tried Relate and seen no change, that means your husband thinks his way is just fine. He won't change. And as your DC get older and want more independence (as they should), there will be more and worse conflict. I speak from experience - my late husband (alongside his many other problems) could not handle the fact that his DDs were growing up and becoming independent young people with their own voice.

@ElizabethTudor

DH tried to drag DS up stairs to bed when he wouldn’t go up on time

they argued over some homework and he was so angry he left DS on his own and went for a walk

Fuck the screen bollocks.
This alone would have me kicking your angry, controlling prick of a husband out of the door.

(I haven’t even covered the bit where he was needling you when you weren’t feeling well)
Who died and made him King of ScreenTime?

God help your children living in such an angry, volatile environment.

Hugely damaging for them.

You both urgently need to find a peaceful middle ground on which to parent or separate.

If your son talks about how his father is behaving it would rightly raise flags with people.

You both need to work together or separate.

Your house sounds like a very stressful environment for all.

Thanks again for all the advice/opinions. We did talk over some of the parenting issues with the counsellor, she said it sounded like we actually had similar parenting views (eg encouraging outdoors/imaginative play, eating healthily and limiting sweets etc) but that I was just more laid back about it. I think the flexibility is the key. Having the freedom to change bedtime by a few minutes or buy an ice cream impulsively on holiday, without incurring an angry mood. I will look at the Gingerbread parenting course, thankyou, as that might be helpful. I think we do need some house rules agreed by everyone, not just him trying to make rules then getting angry when they aren’t followed, feeling undermined.
I think the issue has got a lot worse over the last year as he’s had to work at home all the time and is feeling very fed up and isolated, which I can understand (previously he would travel a lot, and wouldn’t spend nearly as much time at home or with the children). I work 3 days a week, so do a lot more of the childcare/out of school activities etc during the week. So now he’s at home he’s more involved with what they’re doing and obviously feels they need stricter boundaries.
I have told him that he cannot under any circumstances, try and physically make the kids do anything, I have noticed since I said this that he’s been using more patience and calm tactics.
I totally agree this situation can’t go on and is unhealthy for the kids. I’m not sure whether he’s abusive, he’s not controlling in the sense of not letting me do things/see people or about money. He says I’m very sensitive to criticism, I’d say this is actually true. I grew up with a very stressed and angry Dad, parents fighting, and I really hate conflict and try to avoid it at all costs! So it’s ironic that I now have all this conflict in my own marriage.