Ask him or snoop?

[poorsole]

Married 20-odd years, both brought emotional baggage which caused problems between us with intimacy and trust for a long time, much improved in recent years and probably closer now than we've ever been. That's the background, he's never cheated (neither have I) but there have been some minor lies in the past and I will accept it doesn't take much to set off my 'spidey senses'.

So we share an email inbox (set up years ago when we first got broadband) so we have different addresses but they all go to the same inbox. A couple of weeks ago I noticed he'd received a 'reset password' email for Instagram, which I didn't know he used. Didn't really think anything of it til I went back into email later on and noticed it had been deleted, bearing in mind neither of us ever delete anything and usually end up having a massive purge every few months when there's 10000 to be deleted in one go So I checked the 'bin' folder and sure enough there was the email, except I checked again 5 minutes later and he'd deleted it from there too.

I've said nothing, spent the last two weeks trying to make my peace with/pluck up courage to check his phone. Know full well if he's up to something he won't just tell me if I ask and I will have given him the heads up but I hate the thought of snooping and so far can't bring myself to do it. I know his passcode and have had plenty of opportunities but I chicken out every time, partly because it feels wrong and partly because I'm scared of what I'll find I think.

He's not behaving differently otherwise, not secretive with his phone and knows I know the code (he hasn't changed it either) but probably also knows I'm unlikely to go looking so could be 'hiding in plain sight' kind of thing. I just can't settle on what to do for the best and it's starting to really affect me now, he knows there's something wrong too and I feel like I'm being unfair to him to not just tell him what's up, but then I'm scared I'm right and he is hiding something and then I'll never know. Help

@Abracadabra14

What was there OP? Why would he have an account? Are you aware of how to see what he's liked?

How do you do this? I thought IG had removed that function? Thanks!

@poorsole

The same boring stuff as his FB, football, cars, absolutely nothing dodgy at all and I had a fairly thorough look Nothing untoward in DM's either, contact with family members and friends but that's all.

Not really strange that he has (or that he didn't mention having) insta, it's the sort of thing he might mention in conversation but wouldn't make a point of telling me, nor would I expect him to. Whatever his reason for deleting that email I'm confident it wasn't because he was trying to hide something dodgy, his account totally backs up the person he presents himself to be.

Which means the issue is with me fully believing he is that person and he's done some stupid things in the past which have contributed to the fact that sometimes I don't. I think that's something we can work on and will hopefully be a progression of all the improvements we've made in recent years, we've both put a huge amount of effort into fixing our problems and we're actually getting pretty good at it so I feel hopeful we can do it.

So glad there's nothing to worry about OP

If you don't know his instagram password I would just ask for a new one since it goes into your own emails you would see what this is. He will be surprised next time he can't get in if you are have changed it but he will no automatically assume it was you maybe a glich in the system.

‘ that's something we can work on and will hopefully be a progression of all the improvements we've made’....

‘ we can come up with some sort of strategy for the next time this happens, because there will be a next time. ’

We? Isn’t it time you owned up and diverted your attention to yourself more?

You created this crisis out of nothing and it’s all down to your own issues.

Do you not realise they in your head your H is constantly guilty until proven innocent? And the proof only lasts a short while. And then cycle repeats.
You solve your anxieties and insecurities by exploding and expecting him to prop you up.
20+ years is too long for threading a partner this way.

I have had a relationship like this - where I was constantly in the wrong - in my partner’s mind for being a certain way. Every now and then I was accused of it and it was thrown in my way in the accusatory way. And I had to prove myself and be apologetic, etc. It was exhausting and I eventually left.
I feel sorry for your H. His ‘sins’ - a singular porn search and a meme in his photos - can’t possibly justify years of your behaviour and hyper vigilance.

It’s highly unlikely you will hear what I am saying given how you sound on this thread. In this you also remind me of my ex - zero ability or desire to self reflect.
So - I am sorry for both of you as it’s miserable to live this way.

I'm happy to say you couldn't be more wrong Josuk, if you knew how much time I've spent examining my own issues and behaviours to try to improve this relationship you would realise just how wrong. DH on the other hand has had to be dragged kicking and screaming into any kind of introspection or acceptance of his own responsibility for problems in our marriage.

There has been so much more than the two things I've mentioned to create the distrust, far too much to detail here and he would be the first to admit he's behaved badly. Working through the effects of that together doesn't mean I won't be looking at my own behaviour though, quite the opposite and I'm not sure why you'd think that from what I've said?

I spend half my life questioning my own behaviour, motivations and mindsets so some of your post actually made me laugh, although I am sorry to hear you were treated that way in your previous relationship. I know DH doesn't feel the way you describe, we both take responsibility for the things we've done wrong these days so there will be no 'explosion', just an honest conversation about what's happened and how we can stop it happening again, no 'proving himself' or propping me up required.

And here we have it.
You know when you have an argument over something your partner has done. And instead of owning up to it - they say - yes, but in the past I have done this and that, and you did the other....

OP - all I am saying that instead of admitting that NOTHING happened in the past few days and that YOUR issues caused you to make this thread and agonise and spin and anticipate that you finally got him... Instead of raising your hand and saying you were wrong - You just say - ahhh... but I wasn’t wrong because he is more wrong over time....
This is the best example of lack of introspection.

But pointless really as you have a narrative where you are expecting him to prove himself a fraud. And eventually you’ll get there.

I'm absolutely owning that the last few days have been entirely of my own making, that's the thinking behind me telling him the whole sorry tale, why else would I do that but to hold my hands up to my own issues? He knows what has led me here as well as I do, there won't and doesn't need to be any further discussion about that so all I'm expecting us to work out together is how I approach any future doubts.

I don't see how me owning up to what I've put myself through over the last week and asking for his help to work out how not to do it again is turning it around to be his fault or how it shows a lack of introspection? Acknowledging what caused my distrust doesn't mean I can't see that my behaviour and thinking is wrong and is causing problems, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect the person who caused it to help work out a healthier way forward, considering we're both committed to making our marriage work.

Maybe I didn't put across properly the part I intend to play in whatever changes we need to make but he won't be expected to appease me, I'm confessing not accusing so the majority of the work is mine to do, I know that.

Poorsole don’t let yourself be lectured to by anyone who justifys men hiding Instagram accounts and heavily supports the dirty porn industry some in other porn posts . A partner feelings against the porn industry is NOT an excuse for hiding this type of activity and tricking them into being in a relationship .

There will always be people advocating that any woman against porn is just insecure and implies it’s somehow mans given right . Who will attack any woman who even questions what’s going on
It’s fine . Now in your case you turned out to be wrong and you’ve freely admitted this .. truth is ‘a LOT of women are not wrong when they suspect their partners are lying about online activity with porn. We see it here everyday
Just move on from this and reconnect with your partner

Thank you Washingtofold and I agree entirely that women's perfectly reasonable boundaries are shouted down as insecurity far too often. It appears it's also men's given right to cause trust issues in a relationship and then be absolved of all responsibility for dealing with the fallout, but there you go And yes, reconnecting with DH is very much my priority for this weekend, he'll be home any minute and I have making up to do

@Josuk

‘ that's something we can work on and will hopefully be a progression of all the improvements we've made’....

‘ we can come up with some sort of strategy for the next time this happens, because there will be a next time. ’

We? Isn’t it time you owned up and diverted your attention to yourself more?

You created this crisis out of nothing and it’s all down to your own issues.

Do you not realise they in your head your H is constantly guilty until proven innocent? And the proof only lasts a short while. And then cycle repeats.
You solve your anxieties and insecurities by exploding and expecting him to prop you up.
20+ years is too long for threading a partner this way.

I have had a relationship like this - where I was constantly in the wrong - in my partner’s mind for being a certain way. Every now and then I was accused of it and it was thrown in my way in the accusatory way. And I had to prove myself and be apologetic, etc. It was exhausting and I eventually left.
I feel sorry for your H. His ‘sins’ - a singular porn search and a meme in his photos - can’t possibly justify years of your behaviour and hyper vigilance.

It’s highly unlikely you will hear what I am saying given how you sound on this thread. In this you also remind me of my ex - zero ability or desire to self reflect.
So - I am sorry for both of you as it’s miserable to live this way.

@josuk

Earlier you said

‘

Plenty of people who live with unreasonable and irrational people chose the easier life and walk on eggshells around them. If the only way to preserve peace in a relationship is to pretend to not have Instagram - than most people would do that.‘

So it’s hardly surprising that when you seem to think and have the attitudes that MOST people would hide accounts and lie that any potential partner might say or that YOU could think it reasonable to do exactly THAT yourself!

I also see you posting frequently in support of the porn industry and implying women are insecure if they are not ok with it

Perhaps YOU could do some introspection about that and why a partner might wonder if you are the man they think

@Washingtofold
When did this become a post about porn? OP as worried he is looking at women in bikinis on Instagram....

I don’t know if you read through OP’s posts.
I have... too much lockdowns blues and it gives me something to do, but I digress.
OP has on many occasions said how her past issues with other partners lead to issues in this relationship. She then also said she is sure her H hasn’t cheated. But she also admitted to have been expecting him to somehow, after 20+ years to reveal himself as a misogynist, etc. And that this is her greatest fear....

So - can any of you imagine living with such an expectation for over twenty years? Always being on the lookout? Can you imagine living with someone who has that sort of expectation of you and trying to catch you out? For years and years???
Does anybody think it’s healthy?

This has nothing to do with self esteem or my personal opinion on porn. This is about relationships and baggage people bring in.
I have never said OP should not have her boundaries in the way they have evolved.

What OP described is clearly a very unhealthy pattern in her relationship. And telling her she is justified, regardless of what happens helps no one.
And of course - people who live with irrational and easily triggered people learn to avoid things that create issues.
A friend had a W who was so jealous about his female colleagues, that it lead to long discussions and interrogations, every time she asked about work. Over time, he learned it was easier not mentioning females, or to gave them male names whenever W asked who he is working with. There was nothing to hide, but he just wanted peaceful evenings after work. This is human nature.

Even now - the OP thinks that her H had done something wrong in this instance - and ‘caused the issue in the relationship’.
And that was because he reset the Instagram password and deleted the reset email. I don’t think she is going as far as to say he is not allowed Instagram.
So - we all are supposed to support her in saying it’s a normal reaction?

As to my past relationship issues. Good job figuring me out and assuming it had everything to do with my attitude to porn. And that I am a man. Back in my reality - it was my H, and it was about the ‘messiness’ of our house and his opinion of that being related to how I feel about him. For years...
But it doesn’t really matter what issue it was. Once a relationship has one person assuming the other one is always in the wrong - and has to answer/prove themselves /improve on - it creates an uneven dynamics. And this is how resentment build.

It's totally ok for the op to have high standards.

Just because other posters have different levels of moral standards that they apply to their life should not give them the right to criticise others.

Op and her partner went into their relationship with certain boundaries that have evolved organically through the marriage. Who knows what other aspects are going on reguarding the relationship.
@Josuk...... maybe you are in a relationship where you recieve more reasurance than op, on a more constant basis. Op's partner may be less emotional and reassuring therefor making her feel less confident and insecure.

It seems to me op is doing quite a lot of work analysing her own behaviour, what is her husband doing? There must be something not right for her to feel insecure. It takes two to make a relationship, where one person feels pain their is usually some sort of inequality.

Don't shame op, she sounds a caring good natured person with good moral values.

[quote Josuk]@Washingtofold
When did this become a post about porn? OP as worried he is looking at women in bikinis on Instagram....

I don’t know if you read through OP’s posts.
I have... too much lockdowns blues and it gives me something to do, but I digress.
OP has on many occasions said how her past issues with other partners lead to issues in this relationship. She then also said she is sure her H hasn’t cheated. But she also admitted to have been expecting him to somehow, after 20+ years to reveal himself as a misogynist, etc. And that this is her greatest fear....

So - can any of you imagine living with such an expectation for over twenty years? Always being on the lookout? Can you imagine living with someone who has that sort of expectation of you and trying to catch you out? For years and years???
Does anybody think it’s healthy?

This has nothing to do with self esteem or my personal opinion on porn. This is about relationships and baggage people bring in.
I have never said OP should not have her boundaries in the way they have evolved.

What OP described is clearly a very unhealthy pattern in her relationship. And telling her she is justified, regardless of what happens helps no one.
And of course - people who live with irrational and easily triggered people learn to avoid things that create issues.
A friend had a W who was so jealous about his female colleagues, that it lead to long discussions and interrogations, every time she asked about work. Over time, he learned it was easier not mentioning females, or to gave them male names whenever W asked who he is working with. There was nothing to hide, but he just wanted peaceful evenings after work. This is human nature.

Even now - the OP thinks that her H had done something wrong in this instance - and ‘caused the issue in the relationship’.
And that was because he reset the Instagram password and deleted the reset email. I don’t think she is going as far as to say he is not allowed Instagram.
So - we all are supposed to support her in saying it’s a normal reaction?

As to my past relationship issues. Good job figuring me out and assuming it had everything to do with my attitude to porn. And that I am a man. Back in my reality - it was my H, and it was about the ‘messiness’ of our house and his opinion of that being related to how I feel about him. For years...
But it doesn’t really matter what issue it was. Once a relationship has one person assuming the other one is always in the wrong - and has to answer/prove themselves /improve on - it creates an uneven dynamics. And this is how resentment build.[/quote]
Josuk whether you are a man or a woman , I’ve read many of your posts here on mn and they are very pro porn and frequently imply that women with a problem with it are simply insecure
Yoh say this post has nothing to do with that qbd are to do with bikinis andinstagtagran. No actually I don’t remember the OP saying her biggest fear was Bikinis . Can you show me that qnd show that you are not MINIMISING womens concerns
We both know that there is a lot worse than women in bikinis and although you personally may have no issue with it , other women are entitled to and to not be lied to about it
As for me assuming you lied to an ex about porn , read again . I simply said that seeing as you have such a dismissive stance on men hiding porn why would you not be suspected of hiding things also
I’ll leave it there Josuk because I am aware from reading many threads where you have posted you like to tell women they are insecure should be introspective , you seem unwilling to be so yourself

And before you once again tell us that the OP was wrong . She has admitted that . So what .
Not only do you act as if you know how other women should behave and feel about porn but you behave as if you are a paragon of virtue who has never made a mistake or had a personal insecurity

Snoop.

I seem to have caused some confusion, I'll try to clarify. When I mentioned having emotional baggage in the beginning I was referring to issues with intimacy as a result of being raped. The early trust issues were caused by DH lying about stupid stuff (nothing to do with porn or other women) and never centred around any kind of infidelity, they just made it hard for me to trust he was telling the truth about normal, day to day stuff. The porn searches and memes came much later, well after the lying had already damaged trust. I was cheated on once in a previous relationship but I didn't start out not trusting DH, that was very much a result of his lying.

I also mentioned insecurity stemming from childhood, my dad left when I was tiny and we never saw him again, he paid maintenance but never pursued any kind of relationship with me. Of course that damaged me (which is why I mentioned it) but that and having been raped were pretty much the only 'baggage' I brought into my marriage so I'm not sure where 'OP has on many occasions said how her past issues with other partners lead to issues in this relationship' comes from tbh

I hope that clears some stuff up, not that it matters really but I do so hate misunderstandings Thanks to those of you who got it first time round

@Josuk

OP has on many occasions said how her past issues with other partners lead to issues in this relationship.

Where has she said this on the thread?! Let alone many times?

I haven't said it youvegottenminuteslynn, well spotted

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Are we reading the same thread?
——
‘both brought emotional baggage which caused problems between us with intimacy and trust for a long time’

‘Yes the baggage is still around for both of us unfortunately. We are learning to handle it better but it still rears it's head sometimes and we're having to just muddle through, can't afford counselling.’

‘I feel like I'm waiting for the shoe to drop, for him to betray me or prove himself to be not the man I thought he was.’

‘the periods in between 'incidents' are considerably longer these days, I'd say it's been 2-3 years since the last time. It's rooted in insecurity...,’

🤷🏻‍♀️

But how often OP mentioned her past and it’s impact on the marriage isn’t really relevant.
OP herself recognised that she’d need a lot of therapy to deal with her side of things.
So - i think given that - in her place I’d be questioning my first reactions and tried to not be quick to assume her H was in the wrong over something, anything really.

[quote Josuk]@youvegottenminuteslynn

Are we reading the same thread?
——
‘both brought emotional baggage which caused problems between us with intimacy and trust for a long time’

‘Yes the baggage is still around for both of us unfortunately. We are learning to handle it better but it still rears it's head sometimes and we're having to just muddle through, can't afford counselling.’

‘I feel like I'm waiting for the shoe to drop, for him to betray me or prove himself to be not the man I thought he was.’

‘the periods in between 'incidents' are considerably longer these days, I'd say it's been 2-3 years since the last time. It's rooted in insecurity...,’

🤷🏻‍♀️[/quote]
And again . Where does she mention anything at all to do with that emotional baggage being to do with past partners ???
You’ve been asked to show people why you threw that bit in . Or did you just ASSUME ?
Once again the woman’s history , the woman’s insecurities are all to blame and women should expect men to be hiding their online habits ( as this according to you is only natural ) yet they should never be suspicious
Maybe you should be a little instrospective about why people on kn threads so often assume you are a man

[quote Josuk]@youvegottenminuteslynn

Are we reading the same thread?
——
‘both brought emotional baggage which caused problems between us with intimacy and trust for a long time’

‘Yes the baggage is still around for both of us unfortunately. We are learning to handle it better but it still rears it's head sometimes and we're having to just muddle through, can't afford counselling.’

‘I feel like I'm waiting for the shoe to drop, for him to betray me or prove himself to be not the man I thought he was.’

‘the periods in between 'incidents' are considerably longer these days, I'd say it's been 2-3 years since the last time. It's rooted in insecurity...,’

🤷🏻‍♀️[/quote]
I don't read those as being issues with previous partners...

OP shared she had a difficult childhood and is a survivor of sexual assault. Those were the issues she referred to as baggage etc. You're being overly aggressive to a stranger who is obviously having a tough time and has spoken about painful experiences. You have read those selected comments differently to many other people, myself included, as we are all different, so maybe it's worth considering that your assumptions about them were incorrect.

@Josuk

But how often OP mentioned her past and it’s impact on the marriage isn’t really relevant. OP herself recognised that she’d need a lot of therapy to deal with her side of things. So - i think given that - in her place I’d be questioning my first reactions and tried to not be quick to assume her H was in the wrong over something, anything really.

You specifically mentioned her issues with past partners. Not just issues from her past. I agree therapy would be beneficial, but you either misunderstood or misrepresented what OP said - it wasn't about issues with previous partners.

@youvegottenminuteslynn
Yes I absolutely think it’s interesting that with all of us reading this one thread only one person has interpreted the OPs mention of past baggage in that way and it happens to be a poster who is frequently accused of being a male
I think it’s also worth noting that when things are looked at through mysogynistic lens women will always be at fault and that sadly some women hold mysogynistic attitudes
I feel the OP sounds really lovely and willing to be reflective . She came on here and said she found it was nothing to worry about and that she was going to work on bettering the situation and she was met with hostile responses from someone who clearly with didn’t care to read her posts properly or chose to put their own bias on them

None of that refers to past relationships though Josuk, unless you count being raped aged 13 as a relationship? And none of it causes the sort of insecurity you seem to think I suffer with, which is jealousy and insecurity around my DH's potential porn or SM use. I'll say it once more, I'm insecure about lies, being deceived, because at times DH has deceived me, nothing to do with past relationships and a perfectly rational response to having been lied to.

The therapy I need is for childhood abandonment and rape trauma and while I won't deny those issues cause other problems in our relationship they don't really relate to this issue, other than me having a slightly warped view about men in general thanks to my dad. We probably also need therapy as a couple to address the trust issues caused by DH's lying and his feelings about my intimacy issues from the rape but again, none of that relates to baggage from past relationships.

I haven't seen any of your other posts but you do seem to have made some pretty big assumptions about my situation and it sounds like they play into an established rhetoric for you. That's fine, we all have our drums to beat but you're seeing things that aren't there in this case I'm afraid.