Ask him or snoop?

[poorsole]

Married 20-odd years, both brought emotional baggage which caused problems between us with intimacy and trust for a long time, much improved in recent years and probably closer now than we've ever been. That's the background, he's never cheated (neither have I) but there have been some minor lies in the past and I will accept it doesn't take much to set off my 'spidey senses'.

So we share an email inbox (set up years ago when we first got broadband) so we have different addresses but they all go to the same inbox. A couple of weeks ago I noticed he'd received a 'reset password' email for Instagram, which I didn't know he used. Didn't really think anything of it til I went back into email later on and noticed it had been deleted, bearing in mind neither of us ever delete anything and usually end up having a massive purge every few months when there's 10000 to be deleted in one go So I checked the 'bin' folder and sure enough there was the email, except I checked again 5 minutes later and he'd deleted it from there too.

I've said nothing, spent the last two weeks trying to make my peace with/pluck up courage to check his phone. Know full well if he's up to something he won't just tell me if I ask and I will have given him the heads up but I hate the thought of snooping and so far can't bring myself to do it. I know his passcode and have had plenty of opportunities but I chicken out every time, partly because it feels wrong and partly because I'm scared of what I'll find I think.

He's not behaving differently otherwise, not secretive with his phone and knows I know the code (he hasn't changed it either) but probably also knows I'm unlikely to go looking so could be 'hiding in plain sight' kind of thing. I just can't settle on what to do for the best and it's starting to really affect me now, he knows there's something wrong too and I feel like I'm being unfair to him to not just tell him what's up, but then I'm scared I'm right and he is hiding something and then I'll never know. Help

Snoop now...ask questions later

Having an Instagram account is completely normal....hiding it from your DW isn't 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'd look too or get someone you know to send him a follow request?

Weird that he'd set up his Instagram to an email you both use though? Surely he has a private email address to do that (if he wanted to hide something?)

Interested to know what you find tonight?

‘ I feel like I've been waiting for (even actively looking for at times like this) proof that he's not who he says he is for almost our whole relationship.’

OP. I really do not see why you are in a relationship where you seem to be obsessed and waiting for something to disappoint and hurt you.
And it’s not even about him actually cheating and leaving you. (That would at least be somewhat explainable given you have been cheated on)

So - your greatest fear is that despite him saying so - he likes looking at pictures of semi-dressed women. Or, that porn is arousing. Etc. Ok. Now what?

How many people around you project a different version of better them than they really are? This is why catholics have confession - people aren’t perfect. SM is full of perfect people. Etc.

You are constantly looking for proof that he isn’t perfect.

And once you find it - what would you do?
Since you assume he is anyway - why don’t you stop this masochistic torture of yourself and him and move to the next step.
Yes - OP. He finds pictures of attractive Instagram women nice to look at.

Now you can finally feel justified and divorce him.

It is really sad that you made your life and your relationship of 20+ years a pursuit of something like this. You reduced all of him - ‘who he is’ - to whether or not he (maybe occasionally) looks at porn/sexy images and isn’t able to come clean about it to his partner.
But given how obsessed you are with these things - of course he would be terrified of telling you.

But OP - you are going in circles and only making yourself worse. Why?

My greatest fear is that he's not who he says he is MMmomDD, I've explained that over and over but you seem to be missing it. It's not about Instagram or porn, it's about lies. You also seem determined I'm 'fixated', despite me telling you there's years between these incidents when I don't give any of it a thought. It worries me when something happens to worry me and I've freely admitted I obsess until it's resolved but this isn't my day to day life by any means.

It's also not about him being perfect, I wouldn't want him to be because I'm certainly not! It's about him being honest and authentic, not pretending to be someone he's not. If he is 'terrified to tell me' this stuff it's because he's lied himself into a corner of his own accord, I genuinely wouldn't have cared in the early years.

We seem to be rehashing the same points in our replies to each other so I'm going to focus on the other advice and support on the thread from here I think, thanks for your contributions though.

Just like everyone else I am suggesting that you just go ahead and look at his phone. Put yourself out of this misery, at least for a short time.

But unlike the others I am asking you questions about you and your relationship. Questions that I hope would make you look and have some introspection. Something a counsellor would do, btw - if you ever got there.

You seem stuck in this narrative that he isn’t who ‘he says he is’.
So - who is this man you shared 20+ years with? What is he like as a partner? Is he caring? Does he make you feel loved? Does he pull his weight? Etc....
There are normally so many dimensions to a person and who they are.
And usually it’s not defined by this narrow criteria that you seem to want to.

However - do don’t seem to want to even try to reflect on yourself and what drives you. You just dismiss it by saying you’d need expensive therapy that you can’t afford.

It’s a cope out. You must be so used to living with these periodic ups and downs. Maybe you need them to get reassurances from him
or something.
So - the cycle of misery would continue for both you and him. But it’s a terrible way to live.

@MMmomDD

Just like everyone else I am suggesting that you just go ahead and look at his phone. Put yourself out of this misery, at least for a short time.

But unlike the others I am asking you questions about you and your relationship. Questions that I hope would make you look and have some introspection. Something a counsellor would do, btw - if you ever got there.

You seem stuck in this narrative that he isn’t who ‘he says he is’.
So - who is this man you shared 20+ years with? What is he like as a partner? Is he caring? Does he make you feel loved? Does he pull his weight? Etc....
There are normally so many dimensions to a person and who they are.
And usually it’s not defined by this narrow criteria that you seem to want to.

However - do don’t seem to want to even try to reflect on yourself and what drives you. You just dismiss it by saying you’d need expensive therapy that you can’t afford.

It’s a cope out. You must be so used to living with these periodic ups and downs. Maybe you need them to get reassurances from him
or something.
So - the cycle of misery would continue for both you and him. But it’s a terrible way to live.

Yea there are many dimensions to a person but when they turn out to have been doing something they made out was totally against who they are , their beliefs and their morals that puts everything you THOUGHT you knew about them under question. I’ve been exactly where the OP is and yes I’ve been through the whole counselling thing and even studied psychology myself . When you spend twenty years with a man who claims he’s one way and behaves another behind your back it’s natural to wonder what was real about anything So it’s easy to sit back and say way he caring does he pull his weight ? But when your in this position. For many women for whom this is a dealbreaker , you can’t help but wonder if the caring was all an act . After all if they can put on lies qbd acts about their sexual values and morals why couldn’t they do exactly the same in any other area of the marriage ???? Many many men stay in marriages because it’s convenient to have a wife and divorce is a nightmare sometines waiting and dreaming of some young hotter like the ones they are getting off to . Hell with women still carrying the bulk of the unpaid work a d childcare in most homes I would t mind a wife myself OP I’m not saying your h is ir is not like this . I’m simply trying to explain to MMMom why the heck it’s completely reasonable when men lie about porn and sleazy behaviour for women to question the person they are married to

Im thinking this is a bit of a storm in a teacup.
If you have been married to someone for 20 years then you should know them well enough to just ask the question.
I don't particularly want my DH to know everything I look at - when I set up my MN account I made sure I used an email he doesn't have access to. This doesn't mean I'm up to no good on here, it just means I want to be completely private. I have an instragram account which I don't think he even knows about. Its only to follow the children and a couple of good looking male celebs, but it certainly isn't worth mentioning to him and if he asked I would tell him.
I'm not trying to be a cow about it, but I think you sound obsessive, and instead of just asking or checking, you have built this up in your head and are making both of you miserable.

@Overdueanamechange

Im thinking this is a bit of a storm in a teacup. If you have been married to someone for 20 years then you should know them well enough to just ask the question. I don't particularly want my DH to know everything I look at - when I set up my MN account I made sure I used an email he doesn't have access to. This doesn't mean I'm up to no good on here, it just means I want to be completely private. I have an instragram account which I don't think he even knows about. Its only to follow the children and a couple of good looking male celebs, but it certainly isn't worth mentioning to him and if he asked I would tell him. I'm not trying to be a cow about it, but I think you sound obsessive, and instead of just asking or checking, you have built this up in your head and are making both of you miserable.

Yes that’s fine if this is the case but can I ask overdue how many of your make celebs you are following are wearing gastro gs and looking back seductively over their shoulder or showing themselves with their legs spread and extremely sexual positions . The truth of the matter is that women are OFTEN presented in much more sexualised and objectifying ways on Instagram and other social media than male celebrities are . So it really comes down to what he is doing on there and I’d suggest that , knowing following these type of sexualised images of women would be a dealbreaker for her he is unlikely to say that’s what he’s doing if she ‘ just asks him

Sorry not gastro strings skimpy strings

My point is that there is a huge amount of highly sexualised images of women on Instagram that are simply not compatible to following celebrities and he’s not going to say that’s what he’s doing when he knows that’s a dealbreaker

@MMmomDD

Just like everyone else I am suggesting that you just go ahead and look at his phone. Put yourself out of this misery, at least for a short time.

But unlike the others I am asking you questions about you and your relationship. Questions that I hope would make you look and have some introspection. Something a counsellor would do, btw - if you ever got there.

You seem stuck in this narrative that he isn’t who ‘he says he is’.
So - who is this man you shared 20+ years with? What is he like as a partner? Is he caring? Does he make you feel loved? Does he pull his weight? Etc....
There are normally so many dimensions to a person and who they are.
And usually it’s not defined by this narrow criteria that you seem to want to.

However - do don’t seem to want to even try to reflect on yourself and what drives you. You just dismiss it by saying you’d need expensive therapy that you can’t afford.

It’s a cope out. You must be so used to living with these periodic ups and downs. Maybe you need them to get reassurances from him
or something.
So - the cycle of misery would continue for both you and him. But it’s a terrible way to live.

I agree with all of this.

I said earlier that the bit that would bother me would be the hiding of the account.
If I was to go through a partners phone and the most incriminating evidence I found was that he was looking at photos of models/celebs/influencers etc that he didn't know in real life, I wouldn't have a problem at all.

I know it's a personal choice and other women may be less comfortable with this.

The point I'm making is that he perhaps feels the need to hide behaviour that many men & women feel is "normal" for fear of your reaction?

I think a man looking at a pic of an attractive women (given it's not people he personally knows or is friends with) is very common. I reckon the vast majority of men (and women) do it. So I don't think I'm doing it would fundamentally change who he is.

I'm wondering if you have insecurity/jealousy issues that have been impacting the relationship for 20+ years and he's tried to be decent and reassuring during that time but trying to convince you he doesn't find other women attractive at all?
I don't actually think that makes him a bad guy, I think it makes him 'normal' but his constant need to reassure you over the last 20 years has lead to him thinking it will be easier to hide it to spare your feelings?

Like @MMmomDD has said, it's not a healthy way for a relationship to be and after this there will be another similar issue in the future if the insecurity and mistrust is not addressed. Surely you can't be happy living this way? (I say that with the best intentions as I've felt similar myself
in the past and had to work through it)

@Itlod1982

Out of curiosity , you say you have no issue with your partner looking at attractive women and I do agree it’s normal for us all to find others attractive
However do you have ANY limitations on that looking . Is it fine if they are in bikinis , completely naked , legs spread , very young ( say just on legal age ) and would this change as you and your husband get older and have daughters that age and he’s ( say hypothetically ) still looking at 18yr olds with their legs spread
I always wonder when women say they are cool with their men looking at other women because they look at other men , just what they are comfortable with and if they way and types of men they look at are actually the same as the women they are happy for the men to look at , considering that women are way more sexualised in general on the internet than men
I don’t think it has anything at all to do with insecurity to recognise these things and to be clear about ones boundaries as OP is .
Just wondering what yours are ?

[quote Washingtofold]@Itlod1982

Out of curiosity , you say you have no issue with your partner looking at attractive women and I do agree it’s normal for us all to find others attractive
However do you have ANY limitations on that looking . Is it fine if they are in bikinis , completely naked , legs spread , very young ( say just on legal age ) and would this change as you and your husband get older and have daughters that age and he’s ( say hypothetically ) still looking at 18yr olds with their legs spread
I always wonder when women say they are cool with their men looking at other women because they look at other men , just what they are comfortable with and if they way and types of men they look at are actually the same as the women they are happy for the men to look at , considering that women are way more sexualised in general on the internet than men
I don’t think it has anything at all to do with insecurity to recognise these things and to be clear about ones boundaries as OP is .
Just wondering what yours are ?[/quote]
I wouldn't necessarily say I'm cool with a DP looking at other women because I look at other men. Personally looking at pics of men doesn't do much for me but I was trying not to be sexist in my reply and make out it was only men that behave in this way.

I don't have any 'rules' as such but would disgusted if it was young girls bordering on legal . That would really worry me and be a complete dealbreaker.

It's not something I spend much time thinking about tbh but I've been with DPs who watched porn and as long as it didn't interfere with our sex lives (i.e. as long as he wasn't choosing that over real life sex with me, and it wasn't giving him unrealistic expectations) then I didn't see the issue. I guess I see it more from the POV that most men do it so I wouldn't take it personally or think it was a reflection on me or our relationship?
I guess I think that any pics posted on insta would be a step down from porn so doesn't bother me. Would be a totally different scenario if it was people he knew in real life or if he was messaging them etc.

I'm not saying OP shouldn't be feeling as she is. Her feelings are completely valid but I wonder if her DP is behaving the way a lot of men (and women) do but feels the need to hide it to avoid hurting OPs feelings and avoid conflict. Again, I don't agree with his hiding of it but just trying to see it from both sides and after 20 years of arguing over this type of thing he can't be bothered with the aggro?!

I think most people who have been repeatedly lied to end up feeling a bit insecure and jealous.

At this point perhaps you don’t even need to know the whole story about the Instagram account. His past behaviour is still having an effect on you. That’s actually enough reason to end it if you want to. Or snoop... which is what most people would probably do. But it feels like you’re really asking yourself whether this is the end.

@Itlod1982

Yes totally understand what your saying but you do understand that a huge amount of porn and Instagram stuff for men Is girls just bordering on legal , like 18 year olds
I think many woman are cool with porn until they start exploring the industry and exactly WHAT their partners are looking at
This may or may not be the case with OP but look at the huge scandals recently with the mainstream sites where they literally were caught with illegal disgusting content .
I would suggest he may be hiding it because he knows it’s going to hurt her feelings and why the hell do something you know hurts your partner and o also think he is doing something that he knows would be a dealbreaker
I hope I’m wrong

Apparently the age you need to be to get an Instagram account is 13

I have no idea if that means you can also post

And OP for the record I have never heard of any type of illegal content on Instagram so I’m not saying that . I only heard of some full on porn sites scandals and was wondering how anyone with concern about content can be ok with their partner using porn when the sites are often dodgy As for Instagram I do know lots of young women 18 and up are posing in next to nothing and you have every right to not be ok with being in a relationship with someone who is using that . The whole thing is you need to find out why exactly he deleted . We can only speculate

Just look. You already know you don't trust him and you have reasons for that. Looking won't make that go away.

Have a look, and you can either find out what you are dealing with (if anything) and address it. Or find nothing and then you can address the issues behind the way you feel/the trust.

Grab this situation by the horns OP! Good luck.

[quote Washingtofold]@Itlod1982

Yes totally understand what your saying but you do understand that a huge amount of porn and Instagram stuff for men Is girls just bordering on legal , like 18 year olds
I think many woman are cool with porn until they start exploring the industry and exactly WHAT their partners are looking at
This may or may not be the case with OP but look at the huge scandals recently with the mainstream sites where they literally were caught with illegal disgusting content .
I would suggest he may be hiding it because he knows it’s going to hurt her feelings and why the hell do something you know hurts your partner and o also think he is doing something that he knows would be a dealbreaker
I hope I’m wrong[/quote]
You're right and I've maybe interpreted OPs concerns differently/incorrectly....

I assumed as it was Instagram she was concerned about, her worries were that he was looking at pics of adult women posing in bikinis & underwear.
It's hard to tell from her posts and everyone has different levels of comfort and boundaries.

My point was that if this is what OP was looking at, it is probably fairly standard (from my experience at least) and he's maybe felt the need to hide it during to OPs insecurities.

It's difficult to tell without this context and without knowing the issues the couple have experienced in the past. My view is based on him being a decent, devoted and loving partner who is looking at pics in the same way as many men but is hiding it from his partner to avoid hurting her feelings or casting up previous arguments on similar issues

I wish I could get it across properly that it really isn't about porn/women, it's about lies. And that it's not about jealousy or being a prude, I'm neither as it goes. It's that he set himself up as a paragon of virtue in the first place and has spent time and energy reinforcing that image ever since, despite me giving no indication I wanted such a saint for a husband. The 'standards' (for want of a better word) I've come to expect from him are of his making, which is what makes it such a head-fuck when he doesn't stick to them.

I still couldn't bring myself to look last night anyway so think I'm going to have to just ask him why he deleted the email and take my chances with his reaction.

Sorry if I've misunderstood. From your original post you said neither of you or DH had cheated in the past but there was baggage & trust issues so I had assumed this stemmed from insecurities on both sides.

To me it wouldn't excuse the hiding of the Insta account at all but I was giving your DP the benefit of the doubt that he might not actually be doing anything that untoward but after struggling with this for 20+ years has decided it's easier to hide it. Doesn't justify it at all but perhaps explains why he's felt the need to hide it.

Typically if i found a hidden SM account I'd assume cheating etc but sounds like this situation could be much more innocent than that.

Have you got a friend or family member who could follow him on Instagram? Or can you make an account using a different email? It might set your mind at ease without looking at his phone, or equally prompt you to look!

I still couldn't bring myself to look last night anyway so think I'm going to have to just ask him why he deleted the email and take my chances with his reaction.

If the whole issue is that he may not be the man of "virtue" that he is presenting himself to be... then wouldn't asking him be a bit pointless as he may fib, and you wouldn't know if he had. So either way you can't be sure?

Just have a look and put yourself out of this misery. There shouldn't be anything on there that a long term partner shouldn't be able to see. Why can't you have a look on eachothers phones?

Just ask to borrow his phone! If you ask him about the email hes just going.to lie isn't he