Does love come back/what do I do

[helplesshopeless]

Nc for this.

Advice needed please, I've created a huge mess and can't see a way out/what is for the best. This may be long.

I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail. The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical). On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to eachother, but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly. We have had happy family times too and we both dote on our child.

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for. It was mainly an emotional affair but there was a small amount of physical contact (we did not have sex). This is someone that I work with, so although we're wfh at the moment, he is in team zoom meetings etc.

My DH found everything out last week. He is angry but also devastated. I have never seen him so upset and it has shocked me that he cares that much about me. He has completely woken up to how he's been treating me and is committed to having anger management therapy and working on things with me. I obviously am ashamed of what I have done and there is no excuse for my behaviour, but he does recognise that his treatment of me took me to a place where I was open to someone else. I still can't believe I had an affair because it is so against my morals and I fully deserve to be judged for it.

We are working on things and will get relationship counselling. There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it.

My husband wants me to leave my work so there's no interaction with the other man. I totally understand his point but am reluctant to do this as I'd then feel trapped.

I want to get back to a happy place with my husband. I don't want to feel trapped with him. I don't know if I can find my way back to loving him, whether all of this is coming too late after years of awful treatment. I accept I have behaved in a disgusting way and deserve all of this fall out, and am so worried about the impact on our child and how I'd manage if we separate. I am also concerned about the impact on my husband if things don't work as he has been explaining how it will crush him and he'd never be able to trust anyone again if we don't manage to work through this.

I just don't know if my heart is in this anymore, I want to be able to be happy with him and love him and our family deserves for me to work on this and fully commit to getting back on track, but I have no idea if I'll ever get back to where I need to be.

I am ashamed to admit I still have feelings for the other guy. I could obviously never be with him anyway so that is irrelevant, but it's clouding my judgement. I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there?

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

If your heart tells you there is something worth fighting for, then you have nothing to lose (except some time maybe, and your pride
Losing years of happy life and the opportunity to find someone new who treats you with respect and kindness instead of anger and abuse are not something you should add on in parenthesis as a possible minor drawback to a decision.

Did OP's husband find the thread?

aaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

@PorridgeGoneWrong that is excellent advice for the OPs husband and I hope he’s here to read it.

She had an affair
He has anger management issues

It seems to me that they both have some 'work' to do.

She doesn't have to spend years trying to improve her relationship skills

Someone has to start somewhere. Why not her. Equally, why not him. She's posting for advice. If he was, he's get the same advice.

OP, you said : 'I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there? '

My answer is still: YES; YES after an affair, YES with a husband who has mood swings and anger management issues. YES people can change. But BOTH of you have to do a lot of work. If one person starts, the other person will often 'copy'. I think it's a risk worth taking, even if others disagree.

You still can pack your bags or his bags any day. That option stays on the table.

Is your husband also abusive and manipulative, Porridge?

That is, did you go back to an angry man who wanted you to give up your job so that you would be financially dependent on him?

Relationships often don't run smoothly. That doesn't mean you need to write them off.

Some people are lucky and meet someone who has a great set of skills, and possess these skills themselves. Many, many don't. Repair is possible, if you can learn do the right behaviours.

Not every relationship can be saved, but many more could than are.

Tell us your experience of how you dealt with your husband's angry outbursts and contempt, Porridge.

My first question is : why is that person angry? What's going on? Before I write them off as an "angry abuser".

OP has described his abusive behaviour and anger. I hope you're not questioning her description. I also hope that if you ever get in a relationship with an angry, abusive man, you don't feel obliged to stay with him and suffer because of a misplaced sense that you need to do your duty.

I would never have dreamed of calling my first husband an "angry abuser," although in retrospect he fits the profile in many ways. Few human beings can be oversimplified to that extent, especially those you're planning to share the rest of your life with.

However... looking back, I clearly understand that it was an extremely emotionally damaging/destructive relationship and we are both, ultimately, much healthier and more well-rounded people for having separated. (Not that he thanked me for it at the time, of course.)

I understand your advice, @PorridgeGoneWrong, but my concern for OP (and even, if I'm honest, for you!) is that I could never have reached this understanding if I'd stayed with him. The dynamics of the relationship did not permit growth for either of us.

I'd also like to say that with DH#2, life is not about forcing things to work through compromise, self-sacrifice, policing your every step and watching what you say. It's completely effortless. I think that's what happens when you are actually well suited to each other, instead of trying to hammer a round peg into a square hole.

I'd also like to say that with DH#2, life is not about forcing things to work through compromise, self-sacrifice, policing your every step and watching what you say. It's completely effortless. I think that's what happens when you are actually well suited to each other, instead of trying to hammer a round peg into a square hole

I agree with this and would like to add that while it's true that "not everyone is lucky", you can't base your decisions on that idea.
Before we had children, I almost broke up with my exh as he persuaded me that I shouldn't "just give up" but should "work on it".
As Alcemeg describes, I'm now in a relationship that does not involve me swallowing my hurt or wishes. It's not a dreamy fairytale relationship. Neither me nor my bf are the perfect partner. We're not one of the lucky few. But it's not a struggle. There's work, but it's not hard work. It feels good. It's appreciated and reciprocated.

Yes, and I didn't go straight from DH#1 to DH#2! I spent many years making mistakes and having somewhat terrible relationships.

Then I spent several years completely on my own.

And every single minute of all that, the dramatic mistakes and the years alone, was better than staying in the marriage that didn't work. Because life beckons us to learn and grow, and it may not always be a comfortable process, but it's a vital one.

I keep posting this in various thread on MN because it's the best description I've ever found! Sorry to keep re-sharing it!

I love Dr Seuss! What a great video.

Well, I can tell a bit of a story, but I don't want to hijack the thread.

I'm not married to a chronically angry man. I am married to a man with fairly strong tendencies towards anxiety that make him feel 'controlling'. He has (in the past, very much less now) been frequently negative with me, negative with the children. He says now, he did that as a reaction to me shutting him out. I shut him out because I was carrying too much, working full time, doing nearly all the burden with children and home and I saw him as not noticing, not helping, "leaving me to it". I became silently angry. When we talked, we often dismissed each others feelings. We didn't understand what it was to validate each other. I understood later that my parents had rarely validated me, despite trying their best. I understood that I am an naturally anxiously attached type and the merest frown from an intimate partner sent me down.

Over years many things worked to chip away very thoroughly at our connection. I did not see him as someone 'safe' to come home to. I saw him as someone there in the background. I didn't know it then, but I didn't 'trust' him to 'be there' for me. If I felt upset, he rarely responded by comforting me. Now, he knows much better.

We didn't thank each other, we didn't hold each other's hand for support, we didn't comfort each other.

In the context of this un-trusting environment I also broke his trust by getting too close emotionally to a male colleague who was extremely supportive to me. It happened slowly but very naturally. My husband was devastated when he found out but he didn't want to throw it all away. (I no longer have any contact with this colleague, we both left and will not cross each other's paths)

Since then I had to educated myself the hard way. I bought a lot of books, did a lot of reading and thinking and journalling. The links I sent were some of the best material I found. We both listened to it.

It has been a long struggle but we have both really changed.

I had to learn to not judge myself for what happened and to not judge him either.

I had to learn both self-validation and validation of others.

I had to learn about boundaries and how to defend them well.

I had to learn how to share difficult feelings. I had to learn to give feedback very gently.

I had to learn how to satisfy my needs for connection without suffocating others and my partner.

It will sound odd to people who do this naturally. They are in my view the lucky ones who learn this young by growing up in a very healthy environment.

Maybe many people on this thread are already great at these things.
Good for them! I am pretty jealous of them.

But it wasn't my case. And maybe it isn't the OP's or her husbands? I don't know. Maybe it can help, maybe not. No two situations are the same

I don't judge you OP. Nor your husband. Sorry to hog the thread.

@PorridgeGoneWrong congratulations I'm glad things worked out for you.

I agree, wouldn't life be so much easier if we all grew up well-balanced and competent!

In my case, to do things differently in my first marriage would have required us both to change fundamentally and it just wasn't going to happen. The dynamics had become set in stone. Not just him, but me too. He was entitled in the way that I was as a teenager, not really aware of what was involved in looking after someone. And I could not resist the urge to step in and take charge when something needed doing. It was a recipe for disaster.

I did eventually learn boundaries, but only by getting out and experiencing what it was like to be with someone who didn't keep pushing/crushing them all the time. (Although I did spent many years struggling with other men who also pushed them all the time. Until now I'm with someone who doesn't.)

He's a much "nicer" person now, and he'd never have managed that with me because I'd have gone on forever enabling him not to bother!

Life, eh. I'm glad Dr Seuss has all the answers 😁

So reading all the responses above, it seems that maybe the crunch question is how do you know if your marriage is worth saving and how much personal cost are you willing to bear?

My own personal take is that you can work on a marriage together if your own physical, mental and emotional safety doesn’t feel threatened. If someone fundamentally respects you and you them, and you can both let go of the desire to control the narrative then progress can be made.

Unfortunately for me, my H was so desperate to control the narrative around his past, especially as he had kept it a secret for over 25 years, he couldn’t accept that l had a different perspective on ‘his’ story. He kept saying things like l was ‘misinterpreting’ him when l was trying to tell him how l felt. I asked for space, and he would give it with one hand and then take it away with the other. The pressure he put on me to forgive him so things could recover became unbearable. When l left l was on the brink of becoming seriously unwell. I had to save myself.
In the end l had no choice to make.

I know now we need some serious time apart and the spilt is most likely permanent. Whatever happened between us become very toxic. Hs behaviour was awful but l also need to look at the role l played. I feel it will take months of reflection and work to understand how what felt like a reasonably ok marriage unravelled in 7 months. A year ago if someone told me the future l wouldn’t have believed them. Yes there were difficulties but also strengths.

But we weren’t able to weather the storm. It became the undoing of us and l saw a side to him that although l had glimpses of before, had never experienced in such horrifying measures. He may well have acted out of desperation and panic rather than a premeditated abusiveness but the impact of me was the same.

I wonder how many people really do simply grow up knowing these things. I would guess it's probably a pretty small proportion. I always used to feel like I was a weirdo - the only one who didn't know how to "be a human" - I wished they'd teach it in school!

My exh wasn't a monster, just not really the right husband for me, in retrospect. I stayed with him because I thought he knew better than me. His family life growing up seemed(!) healthier and happier so I thought his advice about working on a relationship was wise and clever and I should follow it because I was clueless.

This is why I personally feel it's important to make sure that if you stay and work on it, you're doing it for the right reasons. Because you want to stay with that particular person. Not because you think you shouldn't give up, or for any other reason driven by guilt and shame. But having said that, I still find it really hard to work out whether I am driven by guilt and shame or not 😬

I'd also like to say that with DH#2, life is not about forcing things to work through compromise, self-sacrifice, policing your every step and watching what you say. It's completely effortless. I think that's what happens when you are actually well suited to each other, instead of trying to hammer a round peg into a square hole.

I totally agree with this, @Alcemeg Surely if you're with the right person, it is effortless. You want to make them as happy as possible because you completely love them. If you don't love them, it will feel like work, and that can't possibly be what you live your life for.
I feel a sense of duty to make things work between me and DH, but I just don't feel anything for him and feel as if I'm wasting my life, as harsh as that sounds. How are things now? @helplesshopeless

@Wakingup55643 -- Yes, absolutely!

You want to make them as happy as possible because you completely love them.

And don't forget that this works both ways. That was the big eye-opener for me with DH#2. Being looked after by someone considerate, who does whatever he can for you because he wants you to be happy.

Somehow, I'd always imagined that was women's work! 😋

That's what makes it easy to love someone. When they love you, and always treat you with respect and kindness, not just when they're in a good mood.

In the absence of that, it's certainly a struggle to force yourself to try and "love" someone, "rekindle the flame" by overlooking what you try to dismiss as "petty resentments." That's what worries me about the whole "work on it/try harder" narrative.

With DH#1 I used to fantasise about a world in which it would be possible to talk to a partner about all the resentments that build up, let off steam safely, find a way to understand and accept each other, instead of spiralling conflict. Now, to my astonishment, I've found there's something even better than that: being with someone where you don't actually feel any resentments that need to be aired, because they're doing their very best for you at all times.

@PorridgeGoneWrong Look at me hijacking this thread 🤣 Sorry, this is just a subject very dear to my heart! I just wish I could wave a magic wand and release more women from the illusion that it's worth bending over backwards for a lifetime to try and force a relationship to work more functionally, when actually they deserve better, even if that means just enjoying the peace and quiet of living alone.

I'm just nodding along with all of this like someone who has just found Jesus attending a gospel service.

But can you have that revelation without that experience of meeting someone who is considerate? Otherwise it is all theory.

Thank you lovely mumsnetters for all of this amazing wisdom! @Alcemeg I was particularly amused by your 'aaarrrgghhhh' response 

Can I just say how thankful I am for your continued thoughtfulness, and insight into your own relationships and experiences. You are all amazing 

Things with me are the same really. We've had some extreme ups and downs, some nasty tempers from DH in relation to my affair, but also lots of remorse from him in how he's treated me in the past. He actually just said to me he'd just by chance come across some messages between us from a month or so ago where he was berating me over a non-issue, and he was completely upset and shocked with himself, and he'd had no idea that was how he came across, and he would never treat me like that again. So I know it's sinking in with him how damaging his past behaviours have been and he's actually starting to really get it. I really do believe that he wants to and is going to change.

I feel a sense of duty to make things work between me and DH, but I just don't feel anything for him and feel as if I'm wasting my life, as harsh as that sounds.

This is exactly how I feel unfortunately. My therapist said I'm still in a state of deep trauma over everything due to how I've been treated in the past and after the affair fall out, and only with time will I start to 'un-freeze' and work out whether I have any love left. What is your situation, @Wakingup55643?

Now, to my astonishment, I've found there's something even better than that: being with someone where you don't actually feel any resentments that need to be aired, because they're doing their very best for you at all times.

This is what I want! Sadly for me, as I think it's throwing me into further turmoil, this is what the OM offered/could give me. I'm honestly still struggling with the fact that I have to give him up to properly give my husband a chance, as I just don't feel anything for my husband and I know there's someone out there who is better for me. But also I know that the ideal situation is for me to be happy with my husband rather than trying to extract myself, so I need to focus on trying to get there with him. I just keep going round in circles and am no further on a month in to this process 

OP,

I struggled a lot to let go of past hurts as well. I think that's normal and your lack of feelings towards him now are not 100% indicative of what you could feel.

What reassures me (at least slightly) about your DH is him saying things like "he was completely upset and shocked with himself, and he'd had no idea that was how he came across, and he would never treat me like that again."

Some people will say that it is all just talk and I agree it is maybe just talk for now but at least it's the 'right kind' of talk (beginning to take responsibility, beginning to be self aware)

I would ask you if you were once really "in love" with him? Can you remember what his behaviours were at that time, and what yours were. Did you hold hands, call each other nice names, did you laugh together. We restarted some really tiny rituals, like holding each others hand in bed at night, not going past each other without a little hug or kiss, small 'thank yous' for the something (a cup of tea, emptying the dishwasher, a positive comment on how he played sweetly with your daughter, etc) and found these small gestures were very important moments.

The Gottman talk I sent you is really a good one. He mentions all these behaviours. You need to build up a state "positive sentiment override" with your partner and that building up is done by a multitude of small actions that are identifiable and actionable.

It's not a quick fix but you just need to feel some progress. A little bit of positive feeling creeping back. You have to avoid 'comparing' him to the affair partner. Its very destructive, despite being natural and tempting.

Have a listen and also do read the other links.

I wanted also to post this link:

www.lifehack.org/415605/6-good-predictors-of-marital-happiness

It's linked to Gottman's (incredible) reseach.

Creating a lasting marriage is surprisingly simple. Gottman says, “Happily married couples aren’t smarter, richer, or more psychologically astute than others. But in their day-to-day lives, they have hit upon a dynamic that keeps their negative thoughts and feelings about each other from overwhelming their positive ones.” This is what makes most marriages last and what separates happily married couples from the multitude of couples who stay married just for their kid’s sake.