Were these aspects of my childhood 'normal'?

[dootdoot]

I'll start by saying that I have an excellent relationship with my parents now. I love them very much, we're very close and I don't hold any of these things from my childhood against them but there's certain aspects of it that, as I get older, I don't think are normal. Also, my parents weren't flush with cash when I was a child but we had a 4 bedroom detached home and went on at least one foreign holiday a year, usually a U.K. based holiday as well.

Firstly, hygiene. My mum constantly told me off for using too much shampoo/conditioner. I remember this from early primary school and if she felt I'd used too much too quickly she wouldn't buy more until she next felt like it. I also wasn't allowed face wash once I started getting bad skin because it was too expensive. I was never taught to wash my face at night, never chased up about teeth brushing etc.

When I first started to wear bras my mum only bought me one because she felt that was all I needed and bras were expensive. I wore that bra 7 days a week, to school, to PE, to sports (no sports bras either) and it rarely got washed because I had to wear it.

I was expected to make my own packed lunch from about 8 onwards. I wasn't allowed to get school dinners because they were too expensive. If I didn't make it I didn't eat lunch which happened often.

I don't know how normal these things are or if I'm building them up in my head because i see other parents on here discuss the way they treat their children and it's very different? There are other examples of similar things but I don't want to overload this post. Basically I feel my mum was sometimes really tight about basic things that I don't feel should've been places to scrimp

Yep never prompted re teeth and personal hygiene. Washing my own uniform and clothes from age 9, managing my own lunches as soon as I started high school. Never any help with homework or prompts to complete it. Never any help with organising my school stuff or my room...I lived a bit in chaos. I had lots of difficulties with organising myself and executive functioning, losing and forgetting things all the time. I think now as an adult knowing what I know I was probably neglected a bit and had some ADD features.

I've just remembered something else...even though we apparently had no money and all our clothes came from the cheapest place possible (think school trousers with huge holes in the crotch that we still had to wear 😳) my mum never went without her 30 cigarettes a day and couple of bottles of whisky a week!
I think some parents, especially in the 80/90's just didn't prioritise their children the way we do now. I'm much happier knowing my children have everything they need.

It does sound a bit neglectful though everyone has different values and parents in different ways. It clearly upsets you though - you can't change the past and you seem happy with your parents now, but you can affect how your own life is and you can choose to parent any child you might have differently.

My mother was a child in the war (I'm much much older than you) and she was very cost conscious though ultimately my parents were well off, with a nice house, cars, nice clothes, holidays etc. She was very into making things last, reusing etc. We were eco friendly long before we ever heard of such a concept! I have taken on some of those habits and still think twice about throwing away a bit of tat that might have some use (of course, that's cool now anyway).

She had strict hygiene rules though. We didn't have conditioner and face wash because it wasn't really a thing then. We weren't allowed to have packed lunches, I don't think - always school dinners. Maybe my younger siblings had them - I don't remember. She would probably have made us make them. She was very much into us being independent.

My mum was quite rule bound about things, got stressed over chores etc. Things had to be done properly and I think that was a burden she gave herself. She did work part time, though had time for chores and was always busy round the house, but my dad paid for a cleaner throughout. I'm much more lax than she is about things like that, probably a reaction to her.

My mother did suffer from anxiety and, I think, a need for things to be perfect. She was never the happy go lucky type. I see myself in her in many ways and have tried to reject some of the aspects I don't like, but I also admired her a lot. She definitely loved us.

People are complicated and no one is perfect. Sounds like maybe your mum found children/ life hard going. Perhaps she enjoys you more as an adult.

“to wear bras my mum only bought me one because she felt that was all I needed and bras were expensive. I wore that bra 7 days a week, to school, to PE, to sports (no sports bras either) and it rarely got washed because I had to wear it. “- this bit isn’t. Surely it could be washed at night and not worn in bed. Could’ve stretched to two bras, it’s unhygienic and neglectful in my opinion. Along with not supervising tooth brushing and buying face wash and shampoo etc. If ridiculous amounts were being used, then at least a bar of soap as back up...

School lunches, having packed lunches and not school dinners is acceptable. The only children that had hot dinners in my school were free meals.

No holidays when I was a child, mostly day trips- to the beach or walks, picnics and sometimes pub lunches. Some holidays when I got to secondary school. Not sure if it was purely money, as my mum looked after my grandparents who had cancer. (No benefits received).

No 4 bed detached home either! I’d say that’s where your parents money went.
I didn’t have breakfast, wouldn’t touch it just didn’t enjoy toast or cereals. I walked to school when I was 12, by choice around 2.5 miles each way.

Thank you so much for everyone's responses. It's somewhat comforting to know that this isn't an uncommon experience, although maybe a bit more so amongst people my age.

I've been thinking about these things and others probably since I left home but I've never discussed them because 1) I would never bring them up to my parents and 2) I would never tell anyone else for fear of them thinking badly of my parents, so I think this thread has helped me get some things off my chest

It hasn't/won't ruin my relationship with my parents. I love them and know they did their best, or believed they were. I'm just going to continue treating myself to all the toiletries I desire (!) and when I do have my own kids doing things differently. I'm sure they'll have things to complain about with my parenting when the time comes!

I'm also very sorry to hear about those whose childhoods were much worse than mine! I still feel very lucky and appreciative for lots of the things my parents did do for me.

"Firstly, hygiene. My mum constantly told me off for using too much shampoo/conditioner. I remember this from early primary school and if she felt I'd used too much too quickly she wouldn't buy more until she next felt like it. I also wasn't allowed face wash once I started getting bad skin because it was too expensive. I was never taught to wash my face at night, never chased up about teeth brushing etc."

My parents were OK about shampoo and conditioner BUT didn't let me wash my hair every day and I was teased at school for my greasy hair. (It's not true that you can train your hair to get greasy more slowly - if it was I would have managed it over this lockdown).
She was very insistent about toothbrushing morning and night. I still have terrible teeth. Not sure if that's because I eat too many sweet things or the bad dentist they took me to or something else.
We didn't have to wash face at night and I still don't see that as necessary if you haven't been wearing makeup. Your face is not full of muck is it and you're washing it in the morning.
Lots of people think soap is good enough...

"I was expected to make my own packed lunch from about 8 onwards."

I think that's OK as long as they bought the stuff you needed and supervised you until you were about 11, which it looks like you didn't.

Re. lunch money, if money was tight, did you not qualify for free school meals?

"Four bedroom detached and holidays sounds pretty comfortable to me"

Depends doesn't it? If they were a large family they would have needed a four bedroom house and they are not so expensive in some rural areas. I missed the bit about the holidays first time reading this though.

It sounds uncomfortable to know that your parents didn’t always prioritise what most of us would see as basics these days. I don’t know if your folks are older or younger. I’m a lot older than you, OP, and it never occurred to my parents that a hormonal adolescent might need more than a daily lick with the flannel! We had a ‘bath night’ once a week and yes, my folks policed shampoo and soap consumption. I know I went to school a bit minging most days! I had bad skin and greasy hair. I remember when I got to working age having to be very firm about needing a daily shower - I got lots of ‘do you really need to...’ comments. My parents had grown up during the war years, and they were also of the generation who took it for granted that anyone over the age of about 25 had false teeth, hence weren’t very ‘on it’ with teeth cleaning.

"For instance, she grew up with no loo at all, not even an outdoor one for instance, when she and my father started going out, when she was 20, there was still no toilet in the house and they just went up the field at the back. So no basic toilet hygiene to pass on. "

Wow. I'm really shocked by this. When was it? My DF grew up with an outside toilet and didn't have a bath until he was over 18, but I don't know anyone still alive or who died in the last twenty years who just went in the field!

Very similar here OP although im probably a few years older.

My mum and dad always had plenty of money for fags but not enough to buy my school uniform.
I remember a school photo where im stood in a QS (remember Quality Seconds?) Non-uniform dress whilst everyone else is in smart uniform.

We never had the 4 bedroom house or foreign holidays though.

My mum also didnt make my lunches from 8 onwards...

I think our experiences are quite common

But, like a few others, i dont speak to my parents now. This is was the tip of the iceberg really, im not sure why people have kids sometimes...

"But told off for shower running too long"

But you had a shower in the 70s!!

@Gwenhwyfar

"But told off for shower running too long"

But you had a shower in the 70s!!

Yes, we got our first shower in 1992!

"although daughter didn't have a sports bra when at school."

I don't remember anyone mentioning having one at school in the 90s. To be honest, I hardly did any exercise anyway as I wasn't sporty enough for school PE to be physical activity for me so I suppose I never saw the need.
I don't think bras need to be changed daily like knickers, but I agree you need two at least.

'Every family has a secret - and the secret is, that it's not like any other family'
Alan Bennet

"I still use soap and water to perfectly reasonable effect."

It's not good for your face. I agree that not everybody knows that though.

"Lots of children don't get lunch."

Which is awful. That's hardly what you should be comparing with.
I don't think the problem is that she had to make her own, but that she wasn't supervised so sometimes forgot and had nothing to eat.

Some of that stuff sounds too 'controlling' or lax, but if it's the worst they did, you got off pretty lightly. For me, late 60s baby:

Shampoo/showers: no one restricted or made sure we did those

Tooth brushing: yup, no one monitored me from age 7, I have bad teeth as a result; I am a flipping dragon about making DC brush teeth

Face washing:I actually think my spotty brothers may have taught me this, instructions in magazines, lots of books anyway

Bras: I wasn't restricted in number; I think my mom & cousins taught me to hand wash clothes by age 11/12, though

Lunches: I can go one better than OP: My mother stopped almost all family cooking when I was age 8. We fended for ourselves 98% of evening meals. I thought then and still think that is fine. The British insisting on daily hot dinners baffles me.

... anyone else thinking of Ellen MacArthur saving her dinner money for 6 years, eating scrumped apples instead, to buy that first boat?

Not one person has ever said her parents were negligent to let her do that. And she had an 80s childhood.

" Never any help with homework or prompts to complete it."

To be fair, when I was young at least, homework was seen as something to develop your own self-discipline. It wasn't supposed to be supervised by parents.
Own lunches at high school also sounds fine to me.
I was doing my washing from slightly older than you. I preferred it like that.

We didn't have a washing machine until I was 17, and a trip to the laundrette was very rare. On top of that I never had enough clothes so if I put them in with that, I'd not have enough to wear. I vividly remember my clothes getting tighter and shorter as I grew, but not being replaced. Hygiene wise I think my parents didn't give it any thought, I was expected to bathe myself from about 8 or so and of course I didn't. I remember lying in bed and picking bits of dried shit off my bum at about that age, clearly I hadn't been taught to wipe properly and hadn't washed for weeks. As a teenager, other people remarked on my smell. I'm 40 now and scrupulous about hygiene and laundry.

Not sure if it’s normal op, but some of these things remind me of my childhood too. My parents weren’t neglectful but for some reason just didn’t help me with things that in hindsight they really could have, and which led to me being bullied at school.

Some similar hygiene stuff to what you mentioned, I only had one bra and didn’t really realise that you needed to keep washing it (how would you know these things if nobody tells you!), I actually didn’t even realise this was abnormal until I was in my mid-20s and a boyfriend suggested I maybe invest in more than one bra

I had horrible acne and BO issues and my parents must have noticed but never really thought to help me with it, I don’t think I was given any deodorant as I remember sticking toilet paper in my clothes to stop the sweating.

I don’t think it was a money issue, I just don’t think they really ever thought about this stuff or realised it was an issue for me.

"I've never discussed them because 1) I would never bring them up to my parents and 2) I would never tell anyone else for fear of them thinking badly of my parents, so I think this thread has helped me get some things off my chest"

Didn't you say you had siblings? I can laugh at these things with my siblings now, even though I'm still bitter. One of mine said we all need therapy now and it was really good to get confirmation that I'm not the only one who has problems with certain things.

Wow I was surprised to hear you're early twenties. I'm late 30s and was expecting you to be older than me for your mum to have that attitude.

So I'd say no, that wasn't normal. Sounds very hard for you. X

Underwear, san-pro and personal hygiene items weren't something I had to worry about growing up.

We were a 3 bed semi, with holidays, so comfortable but presumably less so than your family?

You realise, though @lljkk, that you’re the age the OPs parents would be? What was more common in the late 60s really wasn’t by the 2000s.

No its not OK, there are different levels of childhood trauma but don't assume you didn't experience it just because you had holidays and a nice home.