The man child: can they change?

[bemorejackieweaver]

Just that really. Has anyone ever seen a man child (like a married one in his forties with kids) change into an actual adult man? If you have seen it, how did it happen?

I mean... of course he's loyal! Who wouldn't be in that situation?

Glad you're able to get shot of him.

Does he add to your life in a positive way?

You could choose to view him as some sort of expensive "hobby" - sort of like your own giant panda. Rare and ornamental, but a bit hopeless, rolls around doing nothing all day and terrible at sex. Costs a lot to maintain.

That relies on the "cute" factor though - and it doesn't sound like he has any.

Yep - with the amount you subsidise him you could get a housekeeper.

I think you’ll find that after 6 months you love your life and freedom!

@Easterbunnygettingready

Sorry op have you found yourself lumbered with my exdh? The one who demanded a new x box game for my 40th as it wasn't fair the whole day was about me...

Woah 😨

@bemorejackieweaver

Oh god, this is brutal and excellent, thanks everyone. I think my OH is a Man Child. Can you confirm please MN? We have 2 DCs for context. I work full time in a good job. He works 1 day a week on minimum wage.

Man Child signs

• contributes zero financially
• leaves doors open and unlocked
• doesn't tidy up after himself and kids when it's his turn to look after them
• complains about having to look after both kids because he finds it too difficult
• doesn't know how to cook and won't learn
• gives me school admin to deal with like I'm his mum
• complains about any changes in the house
• contributed nothing to 3 house moves (except moaning)
• does zero DIY or bringing tradesmen in
• does zero thinking/planning about the kids' nursery and school
• has the entire 3rd floor to hoard all his sentimental stuff/books/games etc
• complains about being tired all the time (there's nothing wrong with him medically)
• he has no idea about bills and household admin

Adult signs

• he does all the laundry
• he does all the washing up/dish washer
• he does all the driving and looks after the car (that I bought)
• he looks after our 2 year old 1 day a week

He is 45. Erm...is his a man child?

Get him in the bin.

Can you define man-child? Do you mean someone who won't commit to one person long term? Or one that has the life of a teenager, or both?

I know of one quite well and he's early 40s and still can't commit. He wont marry or make any plans to have a child. She has one so maybe she is ok with that. I personally think she's mad.

@YesItsAPeacock

I mean... of course he's loyal! Who wouldn't be in that situation?

Glad you're able to get shot of him.

God yes, I have never thought of that. I always thought he was loyal because he loves me and is a good person. But you're right, he has it made. THAT is why he is loyal! Thanks @YesItsAPeacock

@KarmaNoMore

Never with the same woman.

This! I did a lot of training on my ex husband and he has changed but all the work it took changed my feelings towards him. I don't think we are programmed to find a man child attractive long term.

@Willgetbetter

Yep - with the amount you subsidise him you could get a housekeeper.

I think you’ll find that after 6 months you love your life and freedom!

Thanks @Willgetbetter. I hope so. We have an excellent cleaner and childminder/babysitter and I'm sure they will be able to do the stuff my OH does at the moment. That sounds really mean, but it's true. And they would do it better. Without moaning!

He will try to talk me out of it, bringing up all the lovely memories, the special holidays, our years together, saying I should be grateful for what we have, that I'm going through a mid-life crisis, all couples go through tough times etc.

Aargh. I must stay strong.

@Bumblebee1980a

Can you define man-child? Do you mean someone who won't commit to one person long term? Or one that has the life of a teenager, or both?

Nothing to do with commitment. Behaving like a child, refusing adult responsibilities, like caring for the children he has helped produce, or the household he also lives in, or making the food he also eats, and who deals with none of the mental load, weekly, medium or longterm planning, and will only ever grudgingly agree to do 'jobs' (like looking after children, which he views as 'babysitting' or housework (viewed as 'helping you out') if specifically told to, like a reluctant teenager who really doesn't get why he should be contributing to family life, and then behaves as if he's done you a favour by doing them, often incompetently.

Strategic incompetence is also often key. I have a male friend who, despite being high-powered at work, can't cope with both his children at once, and who (when he got divorced and was having the children EOW by agreement) wanted his ex-wife to only send ONE of the two children on those weekends, so his wife never got a weekend to herself as she would always have one child at home, but he only got one child at a time to 'manage'. He also told her he wouldn't be doing his daughter's hair while she was with him, as it was 'too hard', and that she needed to send the children with pre-chosen outfits, packed together so he didn't need to figure out appropriate clothing. (Obviously she told him to cop himself on.)

@MessAllOver An ornamental panda! This has made my day. My panda used to be cute, but not anymore.

He adds positive things to my life sometimes, when he isn't moaning. And he does the laundry, that's positive. I enjoy his companionship sometimes, but not always. Often I look forward to us doing something together and then I'm disappointed because he complains or is exhausted/stressed. It's nice to see the kids enjoy their daddy. But this is tinged with sadness when I watch him shout at them for 'making a mess,' i.e. playing.

Can an ornamental panda do laundry? I really should get one.

The thing which for me is worse than being a useless man child is the fact that your partner is happy for you to pick up so much more stress, strain and work than him.

He is more than happy to let you carry the financial burden of raising a family and keeping a home.
He is more than happy to let you manage the majority of the life admin, cleaning, cooking and boring adult crap which no one likes doing but is a necessary part of life.
He is more than happy to let you pick up the majority of the child raising, which means you sacrifice a lot of your own personal time and energy to make up for the hours he doesn’t put in.

I could probably deal with a partner who was a rubbish cook, didn’t know how to work the dishwasher and got things arse upwards bc he’s a bit of a moron occasionally- if he was a genuinely well meaning moron. If he cared about me and pulled his weight in other ways.

Your moron doesn’t give a flying fuck that you have to pick up so much more than your fair share. He literally doesn’t care does he.

Because if he did he wouldn’t sit there and watch you run yourself into the ground.

I can’t believe anyone would choose to stay with a partner who so blatantly didn’t care about them. He doesn’t even try to hide it.

Kick that piece of shite out

Laundry is the least of your worries, with a dead weight like that gone, you’ll be doing it with a smile. Or load the machine and have the cleaner or babysitter unload it and dry with a little extra pay per week.

Have you suggested splitting before? This will come as a HUGE shock to him if not. Imagine loosing a good thing like that. He might actually have to behave like an adult for the first time in his life. A rude awakening. I wouldn’t be surprised if you get rather extreme scenes over the. Exit weeks. Years, shouting, threats to self, that sort of thing.

Make sure you are mentally prepared.

Exit should be “next”
Years should be “tears”

@bemorejackieweaver well yes he was actually, also very handsome when younger and very very charming. All these things lost their shine I can assure you

@PetalPath

Laundry is the least of your worries, with a dead weight like that gone, you’ll be doing it with a smile. Or load the machine and have the cleaner or babysitter unload it and dry with a little extra pay per week.

Have you suggested splitting before? This will come as a HUGE shock to him if not. Imagine loosing a good thing like that. He might actually have to behave like an adult for the first time in his life. A rude awakening. I wouldn’t be surprised if you get rather extreme scenes over the. Exit weeks. Years, shouting, threats to self, that sort of thing.

Make sure you are mentally prepared.

My mother left my father (I was already an adult at this point) and I've never seen a man change so fast from lazy bastard to Mr Domestic.

She booted him out and he had to fend for himself. Amazingly he could manage to do all sorts of things he couldn't before: pay bills, deal with paperwork, keep a house, cook for himself, do his laundry, even look after his own elderly mother and father

You need to get shot of him OP. He can still be a good dad to his kids without you. Probably a better one. I much prefer seeing my dad getting on with life rather than sitting like Al fucking Bundy on the couch as my mother ran around after him.

@bemorejackieweaver. I'm sure you can pay someone to do your laundry while wearing a panda costume . You'll still have money to spare.

Have you worked out your "D"P's hourly rate? How much do you pay him per hour of childcare/housework etc? And that's not even taking into account the lack of contribution to bills etc.

You'll probably find that you can afford a Norland nanny or a butler, the amount you're "paying" him per hour of actual hard slog.

Can I apply for his job? I'll do your laundry in a panda suit or hedgehog costume or whatever you prefer. And I'll smile and play with your kids without sulking. If you're throwing in a loft bedroom and all bills paid, it sounds so much easier than my present life . The one where I actually have to do some "adulting".

I always hate on here how posters always say that people can't change. I don't believe that at all, most people absolutely can and do change if they really want to, but that's the key thing- they need to want to change and proactively take steps to do that. I've known so many people who have behaved a particular way in a relationship for years, ignoring their partners pleas for it to change until eventually their partner gives up and leaves. Some would carry on behaving that same way in future relationships but others would stop and not do that in their next relationship, the thing is they wouldn't have ever stopped for thw previous partner no matter how much they asked, because it took the shock of them realising what they would lose for them to change. That shock comes from actual action so they realise the consequences of what they are doing and not just threats.

Right now your OH has no reason to change because they've got it made. You can't change his behaviour, but you can action your own so you stop accepting that behaviour from him and stop facilitating it by financing him.

@PetalPath

Laundry is the least of your worries, with a dead weight like that gone, you’ll be doing it with a smile. Or load the machine and have the cleaner or babysitter unload it and dry with a little extra pay per week.

Have you suggested splitting before? This will come as a HUGE shock to him if not. Imagine loosing a good thing like that. He might actually have to behave like an adult for the first time in his life. A rude awakening. I wouldn’t be surprised if you get rather extreme scenes over the. Exit weeks. Years, shouting, threats to self, that sort of thing.

Make sure you are mentally prepared.

I agree, I will be doing the laundry with a smile.

I suggested couples counselling a couple of years ago. He refused to do it but he did start doing more as a result. He basically took over the laundry. Not much else.

That is very insightful and I think you're right, there will be shouting, threats to self and that sort of thing. I have a counsellor so I will ask for her support mentally. Oh god, 'extreme scenes' makes me shudder.

OP just because nobody else seems to have mentioned it: are you sure he wouldn't claim to be a SAHP if you split? You mention he is the one receiving child benefit, I'm sure I've read on hear about that being a test the courts use to establish who the resident parent is.

I'd just be wary he might try to block you buying him out/require you to pay child maintenance/use the children as a negotiating tactic. I would tread v carefully and get legal advise before even broaching it. I think a six-month trial separation, with a legal agreement drawn up through mediation could be a good way to start it as he may be less demanding if he thinks there could be a way back. That is assuming he is not in fact a hands-on parent and you wouldn't want him having the children most of the time.

[quote MessAllOver]@bemorejackieweaver. I'm sure you can pay someone to do your laundry while wearing a panda costume . You'll still have money to spare.

Have you worked out your "D"P's hourly rate? How much do you pay him per hour of childcare/housework etc? And that's not even taking into account the lack of contribution to bills etc.

You'll probably find that you can afford a Norland nanny or a butler, the amount you're "paying" him per hour of actual hard slog.

Can I apply for his job? I'll do your laundry in a panda suit or hedgehog costume or whatever you prefer. And I'll smile and play with your kids without sulking. If you're throwing in a loft bedroom and all bills paid, it sounds so much easier than my present life . The one where I actually have to do some "adulting".[/quote]
Oooh that's a good idea, I will work out his hourly rate. That's excellent.

You'll be the first to know when I advertise the vacancy. Hedgehog sounds lovely!

I’m sure they can all do it unless there is some sort of disability. The thing is they want a woman to do it!
I’m surprised your father didn’t end up with another woman to take your mother's place after getting used to a lifetime of being weighted on...
I suppose for some it can be a wake up call and they do not want to suffer the shock and embarrassment of being thrown out yet again!
Maybe he knows he’ll at least always have a roof over his head with elderly parents and probably inherit.

In a way you can feel sorry for these men, they have become a rather pathetic creature with limited independence or self satisfaction, living under the illusion the best feeling in the world is subjugating a woman, believing that’s what makes you a real man. Some very warped and twisted ideas.

Thanks @heydoggie, yes, I can see that is all possible.

I don't think he has it in him to think about any of this stuff. He has zero clue when it comes to anything like this. But if and when he becomes a adult, and with advice from someone else, he might try some of that stuff, especially if he feels hard done by.

He used to be a not-very-good SAHP but he certainly isn't anymore. I think to begin with the children are better off here in the same house with me. Not sure about the future but I would be happy for them to spend half their time with him.

@Tallybeebloom

I always hate on here how posters always say that people can't change. I don't believe that at all, most people absolutely can and do change if they really want to, but that's the key thing- they need to want to change and proactively take steps to do that. I've known so many people who have behaved a particular way in a relationship for years, ignoring their partners pleas for it to change until eventually their partner gives up and leaves. Some would carry on behaving that same way in future relationships but others would stop and not do that in their next relationship, the thing is they wouldn't have ever stopped for thw previous partner no matter how much they asked, because it took the shock of them realising what they would lose for them to change. That shock comes from actual action so they realise the consequences of what they are doing and not just threats.

Right now your OH has no reason to change because they've got it made. You can't change his behaviour, but you can action your own so you stop accepting that behaviour from him and stop facilitating it by financing him.

Thanks for this. I agree and I may trying stopping accepting his behaviour and stopping financing him first for a trial period and see what happens. I will talk to my counsellor about it and mull it over. I have always believed in working on relationships and that people can change. And I understand that I can only change myself. So this may be my starting strategy. Thanks again, I appreciate it.