Dealing with very particular DH

[jpbee]

Im struggling to find posts relating to my situation as usually this is in reverse. My DH is very particular about things, mostly relating to the house being tidy and clean. I like a minimalist space and things to be clean too so we’re not complete opposites but I feel it has escalated on his part over the past couple of years and I’m struggling at times. I’ve no doubt lockdown has accentuated this.

He is very open when I do something that he doesn’t consider to be acceptable and will say it quite bluntly and it can be hurtful.
Today I got a new pair of trainers and they didn’t fit so I put them back in the original outer packaging and placed them on the dining table to seal and label later, this was partly due to us having a young daughter and I didn’t want her messing with them. He saw them on the table and was horrified that I would put the box on the dining table. I tried to shrug it off and he went on a rant about how that box has been in the back of a van and on a conveyor and it’s gross that I would put it where we eat. He then said I lacked in logic at times..

I suppose I need some perspective, was this a really disgusting thing to do or is he being overly critical? I’m losing touch with reality and what is actually gross and what he considers to be gross!

I have many more examples and the one above may not be ideal but is is fresh in my memory and just got to me today.. I’m hoping someone out there might be in a similar situation and can relate? Everyone talks about how lucky I am being with someone like this as quite often men don’t do anything round the house, and whilst I’m grateful it is also becoming a source of anxiety for me now.

That is such a relief to hear. I was worried most replies on here might actually just confirm that it wasn’t an ok thing to do

Are there any other situations in your life where you lack your own judgment about things? Say, if you were with a good friend or a relative, somebody who loves you, and you trust - would you ever doubt something like whether putting a box on a table is ok with them?

Or do you only question your judgment about things when you're with him?

I put new shoes on a table yesterday won a fiver on the lottery last night 😂

@Magnificentmug12

I wouldn’t of done it- who puts shoes, in or out of a box on the dining table! That’s crazy!

Are you seriously telling me that putting shoes (clean and in a box) on a dining table is perfectly normal? There’s no way- it’s disrespectful and rude.

Disrespectful and rude to whom? The table!?

Of course it's perfectly normal. Tables are big flat surfaces designed to facilitate human activity. They help us to get stuff done without having to stoop down to floor level. One of the things they help us to do is eat meals, but they're not a special sacred space dedicated to the food god. They're multifunctional objects there to be useful. What was the OP supposed to do, squat on the floor while sorting out her parcel in order to maintain the sanctity of the dinner plank?

@Joe50

Pre covid my husband would go mad at teenage kids for coming home in gym kit and not changing at the gym. I think this is OTT. AIBU?

Definitely not normal. Going mad at stuff like this is abusive. Your poor children living with a headcase.

Just as the poor OP's husband is an abusive twat.

OP doesn't have to live this way.
Get him out.

I always believe the boiling frog analogy must apply with these men, because it is a sudden thing.
Over time the woman just gets slowly used to their bullshit until it is so abusive.

As for not leaving shoes in a box on a table, I have never heard anything so ridiculous.

Poor OP living with such an abusive headcase.

Towards the end of my very long marriage, I noticed how my husband became snappy over silly things such as the scenario you wrote about. Some of the things he fretted over seemed totally bonkers but I now know it was because he was unhappy.
Now divorce and my dining table is over flowing with craft items, glue guns, pretty flowers..... bliss!

@Magnificentmug12

I wouldn’t of done it- who puts shoes, in or out of a box on the dining table! That’s crazy!

Are you seriously telling me that putting shoes (clean and in a box) on a dining table is perfectly normal? There’s no way- it’s disrespectful and rude.

Your opinion is not a rule. Some people find this disrespectful/rude, and some people don't. You may think it's crazy, many don't.

What matters is not your opinion. It's the difference between the opinion of OP and her husband.

My daughter has OCD and germophobia and she has exactly the same reaction.

Thank you so much for all of the honest responses. I’m not trying to downplay but I’m slightly concerned by some of the reactions that my post somehow made this sound worse than what it was. He by no means made a scene or shouted etc, he was quite calm but did feel the need to explain to me why it wasn’t ok and felt the need to tell me my logic was off.

Anyway I confronted him about it last night after getting the confirmation I needed from here that it wasn’t me losing the plot or being overly sensitive. We went back and forth for a long while about why it wasn’t ok to put the box there, I kept pushing further - “but why does it matter, what will actually happen as a result of putting it there, what is the worst that could happen?” etc. I suppose we agreed to disagree and he did point out that it wasn’t a huge deal to him and he had forgotten all about it.

The conversation continued and I explained that I was concerned that things were going too far and it was at times making me nervous in my own home (to clarify I’m not afraid of him or scared, I mean nervous of doing the wrong thing and feeling silly/inadequate). He said he thought I was getting a bit carried away and that he wasn’t that bad. I suppose he’s right, this isn’t a constant thing but I do feel inferior to him and find he does insist on pointing out if I don’t do something ‘his way’ even if it is inconsequential..

The chat didn’t end badly but didn’t end particularly well. I get the feeling he will continue to think the same way but just won’t say anything anymore and that isn’t really ideal as it stews then.

I should add, as a rule I am a very passive person. Unless I disagree with something to the extent where I think I could be harmful or have a serious consequence I tend to go along with it to save confrontation or argument. Especially if there is some degree of logic and reasoning from the other person. What I did last night where I confronted the situation and said how it made me feel is very out of character for me. So I haven’t really helped the situation as he is used to me just agreeing and changing my behaviours to suit his.

Of course it's an ok thing to do. We are also quite minimalist and have a very tidy house, but I'd definitely do something like put a box on the table to post later or whatever. It sounds like he's taking things way too far. Do you think he needs helps before he perhaps gets worse? Has he tried talking to his doctor (if there are more instances beyond this one)?

He said he thought I was getting a bit carried away and that he wasn’t that bad. I suppose he’s right

He's telling you how you should be feeling, when a respectful person would be telling you how they would prefer you felt. He's making a right person and a wrong person, when there is no right or wrong, there are only opinions. He is not accepting your feelings, and wants you to change them, so that he can carry on feeling his feelings.

He's not behaving as if you are a team, he's behaving as if you are individuals, and you are obliged to do things how he likes. The objective shouldn't be to make him happy at your expense. The objective, for both of you, is to find a compromise so that both of you can live without recriminations for doing the things you want to do.

@jpbee

I should add, as a rule I am a very passive person. Unless I disagree with something to the extent where I think I could be harmful or have a serious consequence I tend to go along with it to save confrontation or argument. Especially if there is some degree of logic and reasoning from the other person. What I did last night where I confronted the situation and said how it made me feel is very out of character for me. So I haven’t really helped the situation as he is used to me just agreeing and changing my behaviours to suit his.

I think you have helped the situation. If you'd done anything else, you would have either caused a big row, or had to surpress your feelings, neither of which are healthy relationship behaviours.

If you feel something, then calmly telling your partner is pretty much always the right thing to do.

I think what makes it difficult to confront is the fact I have been so relaxed about it in the past and kind of gone along with things. So to suddenly, after years of this, try to confront and change things does look a bit odd.. I have resolved that going forward I will be more resistant if I don’t think something is necessary / logical. It will likely cause issues though and I’m not sure I’m strong enough to deal with it or can be bothered having the added drama when things were reasonably smooth before..

@SidLowe

It's a huge overreaction imho.

But new shoes on a table...my nana would've been horrified about the bad luck!

My nan too. She would have made a corn dolly ( I grew up with my grandparents on their Dorset farm ), put some yellow flowers rounds it's neck and then left it in the same room for 28 days.

I can see my grandads reaction now. He would have shaken his head , put his hat on, given my grand a peck on the check and gone and told Arthur. Arthur was a bull. The most dosile and sweetiest animal ever. He loved having his head scratched.

My grandad could never send Arthur to market so he was nearly 25 years old when, crippled with arthritis, he finally called the vet in. My gran said he cried like a baby

I miss them , and Arthur, so much. Where can I get a time machine ?.

Things aren’t really smooth though when one person just goes along with things, especially when you feel nervous and are getting criticised a lot. Things don’t need to be all out yelling arguments to be damaging. You told him
how you felt and he immediately dismissed you and in a really patronising way by saying you were getting ‘carried away’. It’s infantilising.

Being passive and going with the flow as a rule is one thing if you’re generally a chilled laid back sort of person. Sounds more like you have find confrontation and being assertive or speaking up difficult though - so how much is passivity as a personality trait and how much is it out of fear of rocking the boat?

He said he thought I was getting a bit carried away and that he wasn’t that bad.
I also wanted to pick this up. His response to bring told that his behaviour is making you feel uncomfortable in your own home is to deny that's the case; essentially to tell you you're having the wrong set of feelings and you should just have the ones he wants you to have instead. That's a big old nope from me.

Also, he seems to be using the word 'logic' to mean 'in agreement with what I think or how I want things' rather than in its more usual sense. There is nothing whatsoever that's 'logical' about not using a perfectly convenient table to carry out a task which would be more difficult if performed elsewhere. He seems to have a whole "I the superior logical being, will explain to you How Things Should Be" thing going on which actually has nothing whatsoever to do with logic and everything to do with deferring to what feels right or comfortable to him, even if it feels uncomfortable to you.

@jpbee

I think what makes it difficult to confront is the fact I have been so relaxed about it in the past and kind of gone along with things. So to suddenly, after years of this, try to confront and change things does look a bit odd.. I have resolved that going forward I will be more resistant if I don’t think something is necessary / logical. It will likely cause issues though and I’m not sure I’m strong enough to deal with it or can be bothered having the added drama when things were reasonably smooth before..

Can you have a quiet, calm chat with him about how you want to deal with this well as a couple, and how you've only just realised it's an issue because it's been cumulative?

When it's little things, it's hard to know as you go along, in the same way that if you ate one grain of rice at a time, you wouldn't feel you were having a meal... but eventually you would have.

Could you start from a standpoint of telling him how it makes you feel, and that you'd like to make him aware of when it happens? So that when it does happen, you can just say 'I've got that feeling again, after you said x/y/z.' and not have to have a big discussion about it? If you keep telling him and he chooses not to change his manner, then there's really an issue of him not caring if you feel crap.

You are not alone. I too live in your sort of world, with a very "particular" DH and have done an awful lot of soul searching. In many ways we get on very well, and see eye-to-eye, but his "rules" around the house are very hard to live with . It's definitely not OCD, it's more having a "right" way to do things...and essentially everyone else's method is "wrong" and often warrants a ticking off.

It's humiliating and patronising. Sometimes things get better, but they usually revert again. The way I do the washing, for example, is sub standard..I'm not really allowed to load the dishwasher, and if it was up to him, I wouldn't drive the car (and I'm certainly not allowed to do so if he is in the car...no matter how tired he is). I should add that I have a PhD in a technical subject and have a responsible job. But like you said you have been, I have been quite passive and let things go..so now when I push back, it doesn't go down well.

I have no answers I'm afraid. Grey rock is helpful at times. Gentle discussions at calm times may possibly help, but I'm doubtful about a real step-change. I have come to the conclusion that this kind of behaviour (where their way of doing something is the "right" way, and they have every right to admonish someone who doesn't do things "right") is deeply engrained.

So many women on Mumsnet post about how their partner is lazy and doesn't pull their weight, but the other extreme is very tough to live with too.

I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. I wish I could say that there was a magic trick that would induce an epiphany to make this problem go away, but, in my experience, there isn't one.

@SoSo99

What would happen if you sat your husband down, told him you needed to quietly tell him something, and that you needed him to understand, and then said 'From now on, the jobs I do, I will do my way. If you don't like the way I do my jobs, you can take responsibility for them in the future, so that they get done your way.'

How would he respond? Or would it be impossible to do, and if so, why?

I hope you don't mind me asking. It sounds tough to live with.

SoSo99 - I could have written exactly that. Before children he wasn't fussed about housework (and I had grown up in my house doing lots of domestic stuff, cooking and sewing etc) but when we spit to p[art time work and took on a larger house and renovation job (I am extremely handy - do woodworking etc, so not immune to getting stuck in) its as if he has to be Leader of the Home because he has stepped down a little at work. If I've ever confronted him he'll go from 0-60 attacking me, saying he flogs himself (he does two long night shifts per week) to enable me to work like I do and he pays for everything. Yes, I know....

I don't respond to the needling at all now. No response. It's his silliness. I don't react to the reloading of the dishwasher or questions about parking (he too will drive on no sleep rather than me)

I accept that this is who is is and in an argument I don't need to be right. I'm happier this way

I can definitely relate to everything you said there, it made me sad to read it as I know exactly how you feel. It makes me feel ungrateful as in many ways I’m lucky, he does so much round the house and it is immaculate but like you say it is hard living to this extreme and can make you feel inferior.

In our chat last night I told him I feel like another child in the house and like he is constantly trying to educate me like we would with our daughter. At times it is quite innocent - “why don’t you try it this way it’s easier” but other times it’s more direct and is offensive and humiliating. He is never aggressive or extremely rude, like he would never call me an idiot and say I was stupid, so it’s not the worst thing ever and doesn’t make me unhappy all the time but it lingers there in the background bothering me.

I’m sorry you’re in the same situation, it’s by no means the worst situation someone could be in but it doesn’t feel nice either.

apols the derail, just Soso99 is living my life right now

there is a lot of narcissistic trait based stuff in this, but calling out narcissism is in itself narcissistic and rather futile beyond educating yourself in what the traits are and why they occur.

Sorry didn’t tag but post above was to SoSo99 and medlenno

medlenno it’s funny you mention the leader of the home part too, I literally said that to him last night that it feels like this is his home and we do things his way