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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Past crime - do leopards really never change their spots

104 replies

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 09:13

I've been seeing a man for nearly a year and have found out (in the context of discussing stupid things we did when we were young) that he shop lifted when he was about 19/20. This didn't sound like a one off thing, more like an ongoing thing until he was caught. He was a student at the time. He's from a reasonably comfortably off family and I can't imagine it would have been for essentials, as such. I was pretty taken aback, and didn't say much. He didn't seem focussed on if being wrong, he talked more about the effect in his career/job interviews - because his previous job (he changed career a couple of years back) involved access to confidential records and he had to declare the conviction for ship lifting even though it's spent or whatever the right term is. He said he also had to for a recent application to teach part-time in an FE college - because it's young people. He seemed more focussed on the embarrassment or having to declare it and maybe talk about it interviews than anything else.

I should make it clear we're in our mid 30s now (me a bit older, with kids whereas he has none; I met him through one of my kids hobbies). He has a decent job (though not well paid), he's studying part-time, and he's on the housing ladder with a doer-upper, but I can't help wondering about his honestly and character as a result of this. I've spoken to my closest friend about this and their strong view is "leopards don't change their spots, I'd be very wary about him around money etc.".

Before I knew about this I let him use my card a few times to do chip & pin and to get cash out of the cash machine when I was busy with kids etc. Had I known I probably wouldn't have. I can obviously change the pin and avoid asking him to use it again (though he might notice & wonder why I've totally stopped asking him to use the card) but it still makes me uneasy. I feel like I have to think about what access to money he has, not be able to have it lying around the house etc. And also about things like taking him into relatives houses, which I would do for parties etc.

I can be a bit disorganised with money and couldnt even say for sure that nothing was taken (in small amounts) from my account during the period he's known the pin and had access to the card. I mentioned to him that I felt like I had less money in my account than I should have at times etc. and I couldn't really read his expression, he didn't seem to look guilty or anything; he just said if I thought I had less than I should have or didn't know where my money was going, I needed to get all my statements and go through them with a fine tooth comb etc.

I've also remembered that he found something he gave my eldest (who tbh has not liked anyone I've been involved with) shoved in the dresser in the kitchen/dining room and I can't remember why he said he was looking in there (maybe for a pen) but I'm wondering if that's really why he was looking through it. My friend thinks he was going through it for cash etc.

I've not had much luck with relationships in the last few years and thought I'd met a good one. He doesn't seem to have much money to spare (eg he doesn't run a car, he cycles to work - he said he can't really afford one while he's doing up the house) but he has really made an effort on special occasions (got me a lovely hotel break for my birthday). But this is playing in my mind.

OP posts:
MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 09:38

I should make it clear - on the few occasions he's used my card, I asked him to do it because I was in a rush or busy doing something else or couldn't find a parking space; he hasn't asked me to use it or anything like that.

OP posts:
Ardvark111 · 02/03/2021 10:10

You should just write this off tbh if it's not a lot of money unaccounted for,? Or it may play on your mind.. but learn from it and not let him use your card again no matter what the reason, and of course we all have pasts and made mistakes and people can change for the better,!!

Brusselsprouts21 · 02/03/2021 10:29

Personally i wouldn't be too affected by this. It happened many years ago and your senses now are only being heightened because you know about his past. My partner had a very eventful late teenage/early 20s life involving drugs. Never once have i thought about him going back to that as there is nothing to suggest he would. Your partner sounds like he's embarrassed about this. It really is down to if you trust him or not.

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 10:40

Thanks for the reply. No, it wouldn't be a lot of money but I don't pay the attention I should to my account so I couldn't say exactly.

I won't be so thoughtless about letting someone use my card in future.

I just didn't imagine he would have anything like that in his background; he's from a seemingly respectable, ordinary family, he's got a decent job, he's well educated, well spoken, the hobby I met him through is very "MC". Its hard to imagine how he could've gotten into regularly shoplifting - stealing to call a spade a spade - back then. It's not like he's from a deprived background. It doesn't speak of integrity, does it.

Yeah it is playing on my mind - my recent relationships haven't worked out and I was over the moon to think I'd met a great guy. I'll admit I've been a bit insecure at times ; because he's younger, attractive, has no ties. I knew he was previously interested in another woman involved the hobby I met him through (who doesn't have any kids), but she wasn't single or interested (not entirely sure) .... and we got together because I sort of made a move, I don't know if we would've if I hadn't.

My friend thinks its shady, she doesn't want to see me taken advantage of after previous shit relationships.

OP posts:
MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 10:44

@Brusselsprouts21

Personally i wouldn't be too affected by this. It happened many years ago and your senses now are only being heightened because you know about his past. My partner had a very eventful late teenage/early 20s life involving drugs. Never once have i thought about him going back to that as there is nothing to suggest he would. Your partner sounds like he's embarrassed about this. It really is down to if you trust him or not.
I wouldn't be super comfortable with past (hard) drugs use, but this is different isn't it. It's theft (unless you know the drug user stole to find their habit when they were involved in it).
OP posts:
AdventureCode · 02/03/2021 10:50

You need to let this go, he did reckless things whilst young doesn't everybody.
He's told you about it, so shows you honesty by giving you all the facts about his past. You've now gone and told all your friends about his past which I'm sure he wanted to leave behind. You also seem to think he's somehow cheated you by not apologising or showing remorse to you for something he was previously punished for and is now spent over 10 years ago Confused
You also now think he's stolen off you, you dont know how much but it must be small, but you haven't even gone through your account to check where (if anything)your money is going if indeed its going anywhere.

You sound hard work! Get a grip.

anamazingfind · 02/03/2021 10:54

I did this a few times as a young teenager, but never got caught. I think it's not an unusual thing to do, but obviously not ideal. Personally I have never had the urge to do it again, and am very honest regarding everything. I wouldn't dream of not handing a purse in complete with money, for instance. What someone does in their youth is not an indication of their present behaviour.

However you are clearly having trust issues which either need putting to rest or ending the relationship. Talk to him about your fears and feelings, and see where it goes from there. I suspect he will be horrified and embarrassed you now distrust him.

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 10:58

You've now gone and told all your friends about his past

Fair post but I've only told my closest friend.

They think a thief is a thief incidentally. And i shouldn't have to worry about cash and cards etc in my home around someone I'm in a relationship with, but they're v protective of me.

OP posts:
HeartsAndClubs · 02/03/2021 11:03

So, you’ve found out about his past and now you’re using that as a reason to justify the fact you are completely blasé about the money which goes out of your account and you don’t care who you give your card to to get you money.

As a matter of interest, if you were actually scammed in terms of your bank account would you know? You should know every penny that goes into and out of your account. Failing to do so is irresponsible anyway.

As for him, he was caught. A lot of teenagers aren’t. Did he go to prison?

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 11:08

but you haven't even gone through your account to check where (if anything)your money is going if indeed its going anywhere.

It wouldn't really be doable now; how would I know who used the card when it was used, it's been months - and it could've been him, myself or my older kids using it at the local cashpoint. He visits most weekends and how would I know who had taken money out with it any weekend. I wouldn't remember exactly what times he might been asked to get money and how much (if more was taken out for exams, unless it was a large amount more, which is unlikely).

OP posts:
KarensChoppyBob · 02/03/2021 11:09

Op you are coming across as very classist. Naive.

People from any walk of life (yes even the MC!) can have the desire to thieve/deceive/commit fraud or whatever.the cleverest ones get away with it for longer.

I'm a bit sad for this man, with your friends knowing about something that no doubt should have been left in the past.

heydoggie · 02/03/2021 11:11

19/20 is a funny age. Officially an adult but in real terms, the brain keeps developing till 25 and a lot of people are very immature at that age.

I would definitely not just let it go - I think I'd have another conversation about it and say it threw you, what led to it, what does he think about it now.

Someone who was going through a bad time with their mental health, was doing it for the rush, and a distraction, is a different story to someone who was going through an anti-capitalist phase and thought the big shops could take the loss and different again to someone who just wanted things, felt it was unfair they had to live frugally as a student and didn't really think about the consequences on anyone else. The biggest thing I'd say would be how they reflect about it now, and I think it would be difficult to be open in your questioning so it doesn't turn into him getting defensive/telling you what he thinks you want to hear.

It could point to a mentality that isn't one I would want in a partner, or it could be a sign he went through a tough/selfish stage as a late teen then snapped out of it. Tbh I find it bizarre you would even think he would be rifling through your purse as a response though. I'd be much more concerned that a teenage shoplifter would turn into a 30-something who was blasé about things like insurance fraud or had some dodgy morality issues around money, but I can't imagine someone with a job who owns a house, however low-earning, would be skimming a fiver every time his girlfriend asked him to go to the shop for her.

heydoggie · 02/03/2021 11:12

Also: My husband and I have entirely joint finances and I'd say I could count the number of times I've used his card and he mine, never mind doing it with someone you've been with less than a year. Its really bad practice, as you say it can lead to you missing fraud and I also can't believe you hand it over to your child. I'd start rethinking that pronto, regardless of this relationship.

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 11:12

As for him, he was caught. A lot of teenagers aren’t. Did he go to prison?

No, I think he had to go to probation officer, or whatever right term is a few times, but then he had the opportunity to go to the US on a placement related to his degree, so they let him stop. It's quite weird that he got his degree, around the same time he was shop lifting and then attending probation.

He did say he was heavily influenced by his best friend at the time in the shop lifting.

OP posts:
MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 11:14

As a matter of interest, if you were actually scammed in terms of your bank account would you know? You should know every penny that goes into and out of your account. Failing to do so is irresponsible anyway.

True, I need to change that.

OP posts:
KarensChoppyBob · 02/03/2021 11:16

I think him telling you willingly about it smacks of honesty and a sense of responsibility. He obviously feels strongly about you too, to have let his guard down like that, he didn't have to.

Eckhart · 02/03/2021 11:18

This isn't about whether a leopard can change its spots; this is about how you feel about a leopard changing its spots.

If you felt a leopard could, you wouldn't be asking MN, and would have just written it off as a daft thing he did as a youngster. This would be a valid response.

Feeling that a leopard can't change its spots, and that his shoplifting as a youngster makes you feel uncomfortable is also a valid response.

There are no rules and no certainties. Rely on how you feel, because even if he would never dream of doing it again and is 100% trustworthy, as he says, you don't have faith in what he's saying.

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 11:18

People from any walk of life (yes even the MC!) can have the desire to thieve/deceive/commit fraud or whatever.the cleverest ones get away with it for longer.

And they're not people anyone sane wants to be in a relationship with him.

Especially when you're raising a family.

OP posts:
seensome · 02/03/2021 11:20

Can understand, once the seed as sown in your mind it's difficult to trust 100 % that they are a changed person and doesn't help that your friends are discouraging you.
I think watch him carefully, does his attitude to paying for things now an important value to him?
He was very young and mistakes are made , if he hasn't grown out it, he will slip up when he is more comfortable around you.

Please do check your bank statements, yesterday as I discovered someone has hacked my card details, I don't know if it's someone I've known or online hacking but I only noticed as I glance through my pending transactions daily and put a stop to it quickly. A habit that everyone should do.

wandawombat · 02/03/2021 11:21

I think more of an issue here is if you are properly scammed, your bank will take no action as they are really strict about cards, etc.

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 11:23

I also can't believe you hand it over to your child.

They're all teenagers, and are responsible.
The majority of them work too - shop, baby sitting, family business at the weekend etc.

OP posts:
ravenmum · 02/03/2021 11:24

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2043806-Would-you-ever-share-a-PIN-code
I was advised on this thread never to share a PIN code. Worth a read, perhaps.

I feel like I have to think about what access to money he has, not be able to have it lying around the house etc. And also about things like taking him into relatives houses, which I would do for parties etc.
Personally I'd write it off as a stupid mistake from his youth, but my stance shouldn't influence yours. If you don't trust him not to steal from you or your family, why would you stay with him?

CatRamsey · 02/03/2021 11:25

He sounds like he knows it was a silly thing to do in the past and he's embarrassed about it now and seen how it has affected his future. It probably wouldn't bother me but if it's bothering you then you need to listen to your instinct. I probably would stop letting him use your card though.

KarensChoppyBob · 02/03/2021 11:26

I agree OP.

Was pointing out that your surprise at his appearance/class combined his past was unfounded.

KarensChoppyBob · 02/03/2021 11:26

*with

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