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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Past crime - do leopards really never change their spots

104 replies

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 09:13

I've been seeing a man for nearly a year and have found out (in the context of discussing stupid things we did when we were young) that he shop lifted when he was about 19/20. This didn't sound like a one off thing, more like an ongoing thing until he was caught. He was a student at the time. He's from a reasonably comfortably off family and I can't imagine it would have been for essentials, as such. I was pretty taken aback, and didn't say much. He didn't seem focussed on if being wrong, he talked more about the effect in his career/job interviews - because his previous job (he changed career a couple of years back) involved access to confidential records and he had to declare the conviction for ship lifting even though it's spent or whatever the right term is. He said he also had to for a recent application to teach part-time in an FE college - because it's young people. He seemed more focussed on the embarrassment or having to declare it and maybe talk about it interviews than anything else.

I should make it clear we're in our mid 30s now (me a bit older, with kids whereas he has none; I met him through one of my kids hobbies). He has a decent job (though not well paid), he's studying part-time, and he's on the housing ladder with a doer-upper, but I can't help wondering about his honestly and character as a result of this. I've spoken to my closest friend about this and their strong view is "leopards don't change their spots, I'd be very wary about him around money etc.".

Before I knew about this I let him use my card a few times to do chip & pin and to get cash out of the cash machine when I was busy with kids etc. Had I known I probably wouldn't have. I can obviously change the pin and avoid asking him to use it again (though he might notice & wonder why I've totally stopped asking him to use the card) but it still makes me uneasy. I feel like I have to think about what access to money he has, not be able to have it lying around the house etc. And also about things like taking him into relatives houses, which I would do for parties etc.

I can be a bit disorganised with money and couldnt even say for sure that nothing was taken (in small amounts) from my account during the period he's known the pin and had access to the card. I mentioned to him that I felt like I had less money in my account than I should have at times etc. and I couldn't really read his expression, he didn't seem to look guilty or anything; he just said if I thought I had less than I should have or didn't know where my money was going, I needed to get all my statements and go through them with a fine tooth comb etc.

I've also remembered that he found something he gave my eldest (who tbh has not liked anyone I've been involved with) shoved in the dresser in the kitchen/dining room and I can't remember why he said he was looking in there (maybe for a pen) but I'm wondering if that's really why he was looking through it. My friend thinks he was going through it for cash etc.

I've not had much luck with relationships in the last few years and thought I'd met a good one. He doesn't seem to have much money to spare (eg he doesn't run a car, he cycles to work - he said he can't really afford one while he's doing up the house) but he has really made an effort on special occasions (got me a lovely hotel break for my birthday). But this is playing in my mind.

OP posts:
MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 21:56

I have a lot of insecurity about why he'd choose to get into and stay in an ltr with me, older than him, with a family, not objectively more attractive (or maybe even as attractive as him). I sometime wonder if it's because of security or that it might be a phase that he comes out of when the novelty wears off and when he's in a different head space; that he's just fooling himself, and me, that it could be long-term. I'm reluctant to invest in case that's it. Maybe that's part of the reason I'm."over reacting" to finding out stuff that throws doubt in his honesty and integrity.

He was in a (bit of an on-off sounding) relationship with a woman a few years younger than him for 6 or more years before this, and 9 months out of it when we started seeing each other. I know they finished fir three months and get back together four years ago; for the first while tbh it was in the back if my mind that he might get back together with her, still is a little bit. That or he'll meet someone on one of his nights out.

OP posts:
MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 21:58

Maybe I'm focusing on bad points to make myself feel better if it does go belly up (!)

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ShrewYou · 02/03/2021 22:12

You can't be in a relationship with someone who you now are thinking about why they might have been looking in a drawer! That's madness. You are going to drive yourself crazy.

JustLyra · 02/03/2021 22:23

I think you need to end it. You can't have a relationship with someone you've now got into your head has stolen from you (even though you seem to have a very sketchy grasp on your finances).

It's not fair on either of you.

Eckhart · 02/03/2021 22:34

@MarshmallowAra

Do you trust him? It doesn't matter whether your answer is based on your insecurities or his misdemeanours. It's a yes or no. Do you trust him to safely cherish your feelings in whatever arena he finds himself in life?

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 22:55

[quote Eckhart]@MarshmallowAra

Do you trust him? It doesn't matter whether your answer is based on your insecurities or his misdemeanours. It's a yes or no. Do you trust him to safely cherish your feelings in whatever arena he finds himself in life?[/quote]
Totally aside from this character issue, I have the feeling that this relationship is a phase that he'll come out of, no matter what he says or what plans we make (we were talking about marriage & kids in the long-term) .. so I suppose don't trust him to have my interests at heart; he may be just wasting my time and I'll get hurt when he moves on.

I know he was a bit depressed after the breakdown of his previous relationship; I suspect he has been glad to have the company, support, somewhere to go at weekends, and he genuinely thought he was in love; but it's a phase. He's probably on the rebound.

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MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 22:57

(I don't think it's intentional on his part, I should emphasise).

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JustLyra · 02/03/2021 23:00

You don’t trust him not to steal from you and you don’t trust him not to meet someone on a night out.

Walk away.

anynamewilldo2021 · 02/03/2021 23:04

He made a mistake. He's paid the price for it and has been honest with you.

If I'm reading this right, You have absolutely no proof that he's taken any money from you and your basing your suspicion on a mistake he made many years ago.

Eckhart · 02/03/2021 23:10

Why on earth would you be with somebody you don't trust with your feelings, who you think is with you because they're on the rebound? Why would you choose to do that to yourself (and your kids)?

I'm genuinely asking. There must be reasons, and if you can identify them, it will help you get to the bottom of what's going on.

FiveFootTwoEyesOfBlue · 02/03/2021 23:14

I don't think that because someone shoplifted when they were 19 they're likely to steal from their girlfriend or her relatives when they're 30, I think you're over-reacting in terms of worrying about this. But if you feel that you don't share the same morals then that's potentially a problem, if you think he's a dishonest or self-centred person.

You should judge him on his actions in the present, maybe look carefully at his attitudes and behaviours, then decide based on that, not on something relatively minor 10 years ago.

E.g. cycling to work because you can't afford to run a car while doing up your house, to me shows strength of character; some people would go into debt to have a car.

thosetalesofunexpected · 03/03/2021 14:16

@MarshmallowAra

Trust what your gut emotion instinct is telling you about this relantship op.!😕

Dodie66 · 03/03/2021 15:22

My hubby told me that he used to shoplift when he was a teenager. Now he is the most honest person I know and wouldn’t dream of doing anything like that. In fact he is now the opposite. I agree with the previous poster and that maybe you are over reacting

Kintsuji · 04/03/2021 10:10

@MarshmallowAra

I should make it clear - on the few occasions he's used my card, I asked him to do it because I was in a rush or busy doing something else or couldn't find a parking space; he hasn't asked me to use it or anything like that.
I wouldn't automatically write him off over this. I've known people who did stupid and illegal things at this age, that grew into compassionate caring adults. It might be worth talking to him about if he knows how and why it happened. Being middle class doesn't mean there's no stress or mental health struggles in your life. Me I overeat when I'm struggling mentally, some people drink too much or steal or do drugs or take up compulsive exercise. It doesn't excuse it, but you may well find there is an explanation that means that isn't who he really is.

The bankcard, you need to change your pin asap and not let others use the card again. Doing either of these things breaks the terms and conditions under which your account and card were set up and means the bank will have no liability if fraud or theft occurs involving your account.

ginandbearit · 04/03/2021 10:32

I used to work for a chain of bookshops ...we had tons of middle class shoplifters of all ages , huge embarrassment to families out for the day when Hugo or Annabelle were found to have lifted a book or two ...and we also had professionals , lawyers , teachers , titled people ..all wealthy ..they did it for the thrill or the entitlement .
Also any minor cautions ( if thats what he had) are erased and dont have to be declared after six years if no other crimes have been committed .

MarshmallowAra · 04/03/2021 11:28

@ginandbearit

I used to work for a chain of bookshops ...we had tons of middle class shoplifters of all ages , huge embarrassment to families out for the day when Hugo or Annabelle were found to have lifted a book or two ...and we also had professionals , lawyers , teachers , titled people ..all wealthy ..they did it for the thrill or the entitlement . Also any minor cautions ( if thats what he had) are erased and dont have to be declared after six years if no other crimes have been committed .
Interesting!

I believe he and his friend were cautioned but continued shoplifting a while after. His friend was caught but let go by the shopkeeper and (I think) mistky.stopped after that. He was caught again (at least once), arrested, had to later attend court and got some sort suspended sentence and had to attend probation.

So I think he has a record for theft, but as I understand it it is considered spent, except for checks for jobs involving confidential records and working with under 18s etc (?)

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ChristmasFluff · 04/03/2021 16:44

What I would find more worrying is that he doesn't seem in the slightest bit ashamed of it, and more that he feels like he shouldn't have to declare it. That he is being inconvenienced, rather than that he sees he was wrong.

From the other things you write, your gut is screaming at you, and I would listen to it.

Eckhart · 04/03/2021 16:48

I think it's quite different from nicking a lip balm or something. He has a criminal conviction.

billy1966 · 04/03/2021 17:04

@JustLyra

You don’t trust him not to steal from you and you don’t trust him not to meet someone on a night out.

Walk away.

I really think you should listen to your gut here.

As others have written, get your act together re your card and bank account.

Your friends are protective of you because it really is dopey to be handing your card out to anyone.
Flowers

38greenbottles · 04/03/2021 17:09

I don't think it's overreacting to be massively out off by this.
"It speaks to character" as they say.
People need similar values to sustain a long term relationship.

38greenbottles · 04/03/2021 17:10

put off by this...

thosetalesofunexpected · 04/03/2021 19:02

@ginandbearit

Very interesting thread post you put up earlier.😕

which book stores chain was it then?

Was it waterstones book stores then?

HappyHedgehog247 · 04/03/2021 19:09

Lots of people change their behaviour from that age. The fact he told you is a good sign. Have you explored with him what it was about? Could you share with him that it’s made you feel uneasy?

ginandbearit · 04/03/2021 19:12

No not Waterstones ..Hammicks ..long gone now ...we had professional shoplifters in the Law dept who sold books on or nicked them to order ..to.lawyers !!

MarshmallowAra · 04/03/2021 23:52

@ChristmasFluff

What I would find more worrying is that he doesn't seem in the slightest bit ashamed of it, and more that he feels like he shouldn't have to declare it. That he is being inconvenienced, rather than that he sees he was wrong.

From the other things you write, your gut is screaming at you, and I would listen to it.

In fairness it's 15 or so years ago, do maybe that element has faded a bit for him, and it it's understandable that he's focussed on the embarrassment of having to have it known or even talk about it to prospective employers as a mid 30s professional.
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