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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Past crime - do leopards really never change their spots

104 replies

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 09:13

I've been seeing a man for nearly a year and have found out (in the context of discussing stupid things we did when we were young) that he shop lifted when he was about 19/20. This didn't sound like a one off thing, more like an ongoing thing until he was caught. He was a student at the time. He's from a reasonably comfortably off family and I can't imagine it would have been for essentials, as such. I was pretty taken aback, and didn't say much. He didn't seem focussed on if being wrong, he talked more about the effect in his career/job interviews - because his previous job (he changed career a couple of years back) involved access to confidential records and he had to declare the conviction for ship lifting even though it's spent or whatever the right term is. He said he also had to for a recent application to teach part-time in an FE college - because it's young people. He seemed more focussed on the embarrassment or having to declare it and maybe talk about it interviews than anything else.

I should make it clear we're in our mid 30s now (me a bit older, with kids whereas he has none; I met him through one of my kids hobbies). He has a decent job (though not well paid), he's studying part-time, and he's on the housing ladder with a doer-upper, but I can't help wondering about his honestly and character as a result of this. I've spoken to my closest friend about this and their strong view is "leopards don't change their spots, I'd be very wary about him around money etc.".

Before I knew about this I let him use my card a few times to do chip & pin and to get cash out of the cash machine when I was busy with kids etc. Had I known I probably wouldn't have. I can obviously change the pin and avoid asking him to use it again (though he might notice & wonder why I've totally stopped asking him to use the card) but it still makes me uneasy. I feel like I have to think about what access to money he has, not be able to have it lying around the house etc. And also about things like taking him into relatives houses, which I would do for parties etc.

I can be a bit disorganised with money and couldnt even say for sure that nothing was taken (in small amounts) from my account during the period he's known the pin and had access to the card. I mentioned to him that I felt like I had less money in my account than I should have at times etc. and I couldn't really read his expression, he didn't seem to look guilty or anything; he just said if I thought I had less than I should have or didn't know where my money was going, I needed to get all my statements and go through them with a fine tooth comb etc.

I've also remembered that he found something he gave my eldest (who tbh has not liked anyone I've been involved with) shoved in the dresser in the kitchen/dining room and I can't remember why he said he was looking in there (maybe for a pen) but I'm wondering if that's really why he was looking through it. My friend thinks he was going through it for cash etc.

I've not had much luck with relationships in the last few years and thought I'd met a good one. He doesn't seem to have much money to spare (eg he doesn't run a car, he cycles to work - he said he can't really afford one while he's doing up the house) but he has really made an effort on special occasions (got me a lovely hotel break for my birthday). But this is playing in my mind.

OP posts:
anamazingfind · 02/03/2021 12:46

I think your mind is made up about him, and there is no trust. No other option than end it I'm afraid

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 12:49

So maybe it's all building up to a picture Im not comfortable with.

OP posts:
thosetalesofunexpected · 02/03/2021 12:49

@MarshmallowAra

When i said in previous post thread
You need your partner to prove himself towards you,
such as his words and his actions should be aligned (match up/be similar.
" Walk, the talk"

e.g someone can say i believe in being faithful in a relantship/marriage is important
But they can have hypocrisy attitude such as expecting their partner to be faithfull,
But they them self, cheat behind partner back.

Sorry it may not best example i have given..

duchesspodcast · 02/03/2021 12:52

Definitely agree, it's actions not words. Well it's words too, if he's talking about previous unethical behaviour as if it's fine.

peak2021 · 02/03/2021 12:54

You have doubts that is enough.

I would not give anyone my bank cards for getting out cash, even my sister who I trust 100%. I know who could be snooping over my shoulder (or not) but not if it is someone else.

OnceIWasAnApe · 02/03/2021 12:56

See, to me it's odd that you're freaking out about shoplifting when he was a teen and not the fact that he has been unfaithful in past relationships.
The stealing wouldn't phase me at all, because although it's very wrong, it's not making a victim out of someone you know and love and who trusts you.

thosetalesofunexpected · 02/03/2021 12:59

@MarshmallowAra

Allways trust your emotiona gut instinct dynamic op

Do you feel he has learned emotionally from his past misdeamer op?

Bagamoyo1 · 02/03/2021 12:59

Twoccing (I thought it was twocing) is taking without owners consent. Basically stealing cars. Very much not normal teen behaviour!

OP your boyfriend sounds very morally dubious. He has admitted theft and cheating, without seemingly little regret. I’d be very wary of staying in this relationship.

TrueTruronian · 02/03/2021 13:01

The shoplifting wouldn't bother me and I think you're overreacting massively - unless he's actually given you reason to think he's stealing from you.

The cheating would bother me, he wasn't a teen when he did that and I'd worry about him doing it to me.

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 13:04

@OnceIWasAnApe

See, to me it's odd that you're freaking out about shoplifting when he was a teen and not the fact that he has been unfaithful in past relationships. The stealing wouldn't phase me at all, because although it's very wrong, it's not making a victim out of someone you know and love and who trusts you.
I wouldn't say I'm freaking out, just uncomfortable about it.

The cheating .. tbh I haven't met all that many people who haven't cheated to some extent when young. I've cheated with someone - was very young but still.

I wouldn't have ended it on that basis, but when it's building up with other stuff re. Integrity ....

OP posts:
MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 13:06

@Bagamoyo1

Twoccing (I thought it was twocing) is taking without owners consent. Basically stealing cars. Very much not normal teen behaviour!

OP your boyfriend sounds very morally dubious. He has admitted theft and cheating, without seemingly little regret. I’d be very wary of staying in this relationship.

Sorry but, with no malice meant at all, I find this post quite ironic Grin.

Do you feel huge regret and remorse about stealing cars, esp since you apparently weren't caught and haven't had to deal with any punishment as such.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/03/2021 13:10

I feel like I have to think about what access to money he has, not be able to have it lying around the house etc. And also about things like taking him into relatives houses, which I would do for parties etc.

That would be enough for me, especially as he's shown no regret apart from the effects on himself

Yes they can change, but if you're this uncomfortable there may be some "gut feeling" creeping in here and IME it's not something to ignore

picklemewalnuts · 02/03/2021 13:17

I have never given my adult D.C. access to my card, or DH- and we have a shared account. We use each other's cards in front of each other, though, but wouldn't leave the house with them.
My mum has now given me hers so I can do online shopping for her.

I'd be very sad if someone who had known me for a year thought I was untrustworthy based on something I did when I was 20. But I'm now 50+ and a model citizen, so...

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 13:22

Obviously I'm only focussing on the doubts or reservations or whatever in this thread ..
I've tried to include some of the good points that make this difficult.

He's usually easy company, unlike previous partners he drinks lightly, he's made effort for special occasions .. a lovely break for my birthday, he had a little wooden ornament thingy I got him, engraved with a quote about love and gave it to me for valentine's alongside other stuff, he's bought my kids thoughtful gifts, he's gone out of his way to get something that was put of stock for my child in a store in his town etc etc. My eldest likes no-one I date, but the rest like him. I feel I can be myself around him etc. Etc.

As always it' not straightforward, I'm unsettled by this (on top of the previous thing). When I'm feeling a bit paranoid & insecure, I wonder about whether he could see me as a resource, when I'm not, I don't think it's likely at all he'd pilfer from me.

I admit I've been insecure in this relationship; it seems like he could find someone younger with less ties, I've wondered why he's with me.

OP posts:
MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 13:34

The cheating would bother me, he wasn't a teen when he did that and I'd worry about him doing it to me.

I obviously haven't finished it over that, and I acknowledged that a lot of people have done it (two out of four of my previous partners turned out to have cheated) and that it was ten years ago; but yes, it has unsettled me somewhat.

He lives 40 mins away and sometimes goes out during the week in his town and at times I've worried about it ; like am I sitting at home like a dope while he's out chatting, flirting, maybe worse? But he seems keen and committed and has been saying he loves me so ....

OP posts:
Bagamoyo1 · 02/03/2021 13:40

marshmallow it wasn’t me that stole cars. I was just answering your question about what twoccing meant. I’ve never stolen anything in my life!

Fireflygal · 02/03/2021 14:01

Op, his confession (but not guilt or regret) is probadly against your values. That doesn't mean you're wrong as values are core to who we are as people.

I think I would be similar. I had a relationship with a funny, attractive, loving man but our values mismatched..I tried to overlook it but it was just something that I couldn't move on from. Longterm my uneasiness was shown to be the right decision. Listen to your gut. You don't need anyone here to tell you to ignore your feelings. What is right for someone else won't be right for you.

It is hard to move on from a relationship when mostly it is good...but the percentage that feels wrong never goes away and often increases.

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 14:04

@Bagamoyo1

marshmallow it wasn’t me that stole cars. I was just answering your question about what twoccing meant. I’ve never stolen anything in my life!
Oh sorry, I see now it was Evenmorefurious .. I just presumed the poster who clarified twocing was the one who said they had done it.
OP posts:
Bagamoyo1 · 02/03/2021 14:19

No, I’ve just watched lots of episodes of The Bill!

Eckhart · 02/03/2021 14:21

Obviously I'm only focussing on the doubts or reservations or whatever in this thread
I've tried to include some of the good points that make this difficult

So many make this mistake.

It doesn't matter how nice he is sometimes. There shouldn't even be any bad things in the equation for you to have to balance out with lists of what lovely stuff he sometimes does.

If you want to judge a person (and you really do, if you're thinking of offering them the 'partner' position), look at how low they will/can/have stooped. Don't balance it with anything. Just sit with it, and see if you want to live with it or if it makes you think 'no no no'.

The most evil person in the world can buy you a weekend away, thoughtful gifts, and be fun to be around and relax around.

I'm not suggesting that he is evil. I'm just saying that if you have a pair of scales with his good points on one side and his rubbish points on the other, you're fighting a losing battle, because however many bunches of flowers he buys you, his rubbish points are still rubbish in your eyes and you deserve a partner that you don't think is rubbish at all.

MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 14:49

@Bagamoyo1

No, I’ve just watched lots of episodes of The Bill!
Grin
OP posts:
MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 19:04

@Eckhart

Obviously I'm only focussing on the doubts or reservations or whatever in this thread I've tried to include some of the good points that make this difficult

So many make this mistake.

It doesn't matter how nice he is sometimes. There shouldn't even be any bad things in the equation for you to have to balance out with lists of what lovely stuff he sometimes does.

If you want to judge a person (and you really do, if you're thinking of offering them the 'partner' position), look at how low they will/can/have stooped. Don't balance it with anything. Just sit with it, and see if you want to live with it or if it makes you think 'no no no'.

The most evil person in the world can buy you a weekend away, thoughtful gifts, and be fun to be around and relax around.

I'm not suggesting that he is evil. I'm just saying that if you have a pair of scales with his good points on one side and his rubbish points on the other, you're fighting a losing battle, because however many bunches of flowers he buys you, his rubbish points are still rubbish in your eyes and you deserve a partner that you don't think is rubbish at all.

For the sake of argument (in general, not even about this) don't you think most people have some rubbish points?
OP posts:
MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 19:05

@Fireflygal

Op, his confession (but not guilt or regret) is probadly against your values. That doesn't mean you're wrong as values are core to who we are as people.

I think I would be similar. I had a relationship with a funny, attractive, loving man but our values mismatched..I tried to overlook it but it was just something that I couldn't move on from. Longterm my uneasiness was shown to be the right decision. Listen to your gut. You don't need anyone here to tell you to ignore your feelings. What is right for someone else won't be right for you.

It is hard to move on from a relationship when mostly it is good...but the percentage that feels wrong never goes away and often increases.

What was the values mismatch between you, if you don't mind me asking?
OP posts:
MarshmallowAra · 02/03/2021 20:21

@RantyAnty

I think I would want to see the record of the conviction.

Agree with PPs about getting more serious about your bank account and finances and access to them.

Afaik I couldn't access that without his consent (?) and asking him to show me copies of that (which happened 15 yrs ago) would obviously say to him "I don't trust what you're telling me, I think you're lying".
OP posts:
Eckhart · 02/03/2021 20:29

For the sake of argument (in general, not even about this) don't you think most people have some rubbish points

Yes, of course. Everybody does. But generally in a relationship, you'd be accepting of those things, rather than needing the lever of 'what lovely things they do'. It's the weighing of one against the other that's unhealthy.

If somebody hurts you, they still hurt you, even if they buy you a new car/bake you a cake as well.

Do you trust him? In your heart of hearts, are you 100% sure that your happiness is one of his main priorities?