Conflicted - accused of a crime.

[MamaMiaoff]

My male friend has been accused of sexual assault a month ago and I am conflicted.

He met her off a dating app and they started to send dirty texts. They met for a walk, hit if off and decided to met at a house that evening. He says they got on really well. She was all over him within the hour. He said he calmed it down as although he thought he was in for a promise wanted to chat and relax.

He says an hour later she went to get a drink, stood up and felt odd. She then accused him of giving her drugs. He doesn’t do drugs. She called a friend and said he was making her uncomfortable. He said at that point he left as she was shouting at him not to forward the pictures he took that night. He says there was none. Police has his phone.

Over the next few days she sent him many messages. Accusing him of being a bad man, then prayers of saving his soul and saying she was glad she didn’t do anything more with him than kiss. Then next message she is reporting him to the police for being bad? His friends and me told him to ignore her, but save the messages as they were odd. His last message a few days later was please leave me alone.

That day she went to the police and reported that she blanked out for 20 minutes, he spiked her and thinks he did something to her as she was sore in her private areas a few days later.

My friend got arrested, suspended from his job whilst investigation is ongoing. He is destroyed. He has admitted he thought he was in for a sex, but says he wouldn't expect it if she changed her mind. I believe he would never force anyone to do anything. I have been in a relationship with him and he was very respectful. Not the greatest boyfriend, and has a string of failed relationships.

But - Why go through the invasive procedure of a rape kit if the girl was not sure or lying. They didn’t know each other, so it can’t be revenge.

I believe my friend. But small doubts as it’s a traumatic thing to be investigated for by the women and certainly very serious to be lying. Why out yourself through it?

How do I support? What do I do?

Although i tend to believe that its a very very small minority some women are vile enough to lie about something like this. I know one woman ( definitely not a friend of mine) that I wholeheartedly believe would be capable of falsely accusing a man of this out of spite. I would support your friend but remain open minded and cautious.

Op you’ve said a couple of times he’s on bail. This means he’s been charged. You’re not released on bail if you’ve only been arrested. On bail means he’s now been charged. So there must be evidence, because the cps makes the decision to charge and they want sufficient evidence before they do that.

@Bluntness100

Op you’ve said a couple of times he’s on bail. This means he’s been charged. You’re not released on bail if you’ve only been arrested. On bail means he’s now been charged. So there must be evidence, because the cps makes the decision to charge and they want sufficient evidence before they do that.

That's simply not true! You can be released on bail without being charged.

@Bluntness100

Op you’ve said a couple of times he’s on bail. This means he’s been charged. You’re not released on bail if you’ve only been arrested. On bail means he’s now been charged. So there must be evidence, because the cps makes the decision to charge and they want sufficient evidence before they do that.

That isn't accurate, at least not in England, as you can be released on pre-charge bail.

There are too many options here to even try to make a judgement, especially without knowing him.

1.she's lying about the whole thing.
2.he's lying about the whole thing.
3.she's lying about blacking out, but something sexual did happen with her consent or not.

1. Neither are lying. She "blacked out " for whatever reason (mental illness,disassociation,trauma,they were drunk, drugs maybe - could also explain why her "story" doesn't make sense) , nothing happened or he stopped when he realised but she doesn't know that.
2. She did black out but he didn't stop.

He's already lied to you, or at least tried to hide the truth due to the bubble situation and so that he "wouldn't get in trouble".

For your sake, distance yourself and let the investigation continue and make your mind up at the end. Use covid as an excuse if you have to. We can't tell you what happened. We weren't there. He can, but he already has form for twisting things .

Also, keep in mind she hasn't actually accused him of rape. She told the police she blacked out and then she was sore. She "thinks" something happened. It's the police that made the accusations and I have no idea what they based it on because we're not privy to their evidence.

Deep down, do you think he's telling the truth about no sexual contact taking place?

Never took advantage of me for anything.

So?

Rapists don't rape every single woman they ever met you know.

He has admitted he thought he was in for a sex, but says he wouldn't expect it if she changed her mind. I believe he would never force anyone to do anything. I have been in a relationship with him and he was very respectful. Not the greatest boyfriend, and has a string of failed relationships.

Suspended as he has a job that requires an enhanced dbs. He told his employers and they are following protocol.

No-one can tell you whether he did it or not. What is obvious though is that he indulges in risky behaviours. I would classify sleeping with women he doesn't know and meets off the internet as fairly risky, as it tends to involve using women for sex and then either dropping them or leaving them dangling. Many women aren't happy with that.

How many women does he meet off the internet for sex in this way, or exchange dirty messages/photos with? If he is in a job which requires an enhanced DBS check, he must be an absolute idiot to be carrying on in that way. How old is this man?

I have an ex who behaves like this. I always think he is leaving himself open to a woman making these sort of allegations. I honestly find him an utter embarrassment and I would certainly not be hanging around giving him support for getting himself into such a situation.

He said he offered up his phone and anything needed for evidence

You almost sound as if you hero worship him. This isn't a necessarily realistic perspective that you've got going on. If he didn't "offer up" his phone, etc he would be ordered to.

That isn't accurate, at least not in England, as you can be released on pre-charge bail

Ah I thought you had to be charged.

Do you mean a legal firm proved he hadn’t done it ?
The internet is full of the “I know a woman who lied about sex she regretted” but I’m not entirely convinced, about your story about your friend, based on my experience.
The police do not take action unless they have some kind of evidence. They don’t just apply bail conditions Willy nilly

You're wrong. Police absolutely do take action without proof all of the time. I have also been arrested because i was accused of assault. It never bloody happened and it was proved pretty quickly. I was still arrested. Same as the person i know. It was proved beyond all reasonable doubt and finally a confession. To add fuel to the fire he saw the lying bitch a couple of years later and she had the audacity to smile and wave at him in the street as if they were old friends. I know mumsnet dont like to believe it but some women genuinely are fucked up liars. They exist.

@MamaMiaoff I would say at this point, it’s impossible to tell - and you are in an awful limbo period. I agree that dirty texts, meeting in a house for possible sex - without even really knowing a person - is not great behaviour, from either of them. It shows a level of objectifying - from both parties. So if it didn’t go in the direction they intended - for either party/with alcohol involved - something awful has happened.

I think it’s important that you remain impartial. Also be careful, as you have previously been in a relationship with him - it will be difficult to stay emotionless and objective.

God, I really hope neither of my children are ever in this situation. Why don’t people see each other as HUMANS anymore? People view each other as commodities for their personal gain. It’s an AWFUL way to meet a person. They both put themselves in a vulnerable position - and for what?? Possible sex - that’s ended really badly. With someone you don’t know, and have no feelings or concern for.

I think you should be wary of blindly supporting this friend.

People don’t really get arrested & charged for a sexual assault with no evidence.

You only know what he has told you & you sound incredibly bias.

@Bluntness100
"Op you’ve said a couple of times he’s on bail. This means he’s been charged. "

Utterly incorrect. In fact given the circumstances it is highly unlikely he will have been charged unless it was a rape with forensic evidence and he admitted it. He will most likely be on bail for a few months....he could have also been released under investigation.

Given the circumstances if correct, he is highly unlikely to be charged. The police deal with this all the time...but there is never enough evidence to get it over the CPS threshold test so they are no further action.

Lol sunflower girl, read the thread. 😂

This is a horrible thing for everyone concerned. I've been through it twice ( not a victim). The first one was evidenced she was lying, the second one the accused was a friend we used to go clubbing with and worked with. We'd been out with him so many times, he'd stayed overnight with us (group of females) he was a lovely genuine guy . During the investigation I was incredulous but cautious. My friend simply wouldn't believe it. He ran a nightclub. He got filmed raping a girl who was practically unconscious by his own CCTV. Not such a lovely genuine guy after all.

*RantyAnty

He's lying.

Wow, do you work for the police? Because they could really do with someone like you for the force.*

I agree, the police do need more people like this poster. No where near enough police officers beleive women

He met her off a dating app and they started to send dirty texts. They met for a walk, hit if off and decided to met at a house that evening. He says they got on really well. She was all over him within the hour. He said he calmed it down as although he thought he was in for a promise wanted to chat and relax.

He says an hour later she went to get a drink, stood up and felt odd. She then accused him of giving her drugs. He doesn’t do drugs. She called a friend and said he was making her uncomfortable. He said at that point he left as she was shouting at him not to forward the pictures he took that night. He says there was none. Police has his phone

I've just read this again. The part that stands out for me is that she phoned her friend and sad he was making her feel uncomfortable. Thats pretty telling that she feels uncomfortable. What don't you get about this? Do you think anyone who meets another person inside a house wants to have sex with them?

Surely you must have heard of Rohypnol? Its almost untracable in a person's system about 12 hours later, after most people have slept it off. Someone spiked my drink in a club once and fortunately my friends were looking after me and I got home safely but its easily obtained.

Even if she was just feeling bad after drinking too much, is it really beyond the realms of possibility that she thought she was being invited to a party and ended up alone in a house with him coming onto her? Or that his behaviour wasn't great and she decided not to continue?

The police will also be investigating whether he has taken illegal videos or photos of her, so your friend might end up charged for that even if for nothing else. The police will be able to trace deleted sent messages and videos, for instance.

I'm really wary of men who want to exchange "dirty messages" with strangers too. I think many of them are all too aware that it will make conviction of a sexual assault or rape much more difficult as the defence will use it towards evidence of consent.

@GreenlandTheMovie she invited him to her house, and it was known to both they would be alone. I have said to him he put himself in that situation with a stranger. Dirty messages was started by her. But that’s no excuse.

He swears he didn’t take photos or videos and the police with be able to find them if he did. snd did not touch her without consent. He said there was touching by both, but over clothes.

Said as soon as she said started accusing him he went to leave. First mention of uncomfortable was on phone to her friend.

Are you struggling yourself with the timeline and intensity since his arrest? Did you expect it to be resolved in a few weeks and it’s getting too much for you?

There is little point you pouring over the details - because you have only his version - the police will uncover any evidence either way in time. It may take many months even years if it goes to court.

If this is becoming so intense and affecting your own emotional state - then you need to pan back and take a breather.

He will be fine - it seems that you have gone above and beyond already.

What more does he want / need from you?

@Springfern

*RantyAnty

He's lying.

Wow, do you work for the police? Because they could really do with someone like you for the force.*

I agree, the police do need more people like this poster. No where near enough police officers beleive women

Yes, something like that... involving investigations.

There are holes in the story and also the further posts of the account.

OP and others. There is another thread on here from and a young woman recently raped by a "friend". It's a very heartwrenching and honest account. Might learn something from it.

There is little point you pouring over the details - because you have only his version - the police will uncover any evidence either way in time. It may take many months even years if it goes to court

This. I’m sure her friends would post a totally different version. Particularly the one she phoned and said he was making her uncomfortable. It’s very odd to phone a friend in the middle of a date and say that, no?

All you have is his version, in his version she is always going to be a nutter and he is always going to be an innocent victim. In her version it’s pretty much reversed. Whatever happened that night, no one but those two people know. And one of them is lying. There is no way for you to know which.

OP and others. There is another thread on here from and a young woman recently raped by a "friend". It's a very heartwrenching and honest account. Might learn something from it.

The Thread has been removed to be checked behind the scenes for potentially being a troll 🌺

@MamaMiaoff I do think it’s really important that you stay objective here. At this stage, no one knows. It’s impossible to tell whether the touching went too far in the accusers eyes, what past experiences she’s had. Something made her uncomfortable. You need to be very aware that you are hearing one side of a story. It would be very difficult - I would imagine - to prove guilt in this situation, so I think you friend won’t be prosecuted (if he has told you the truth). But we must treat people better. I do think the #metoo movement has given women a bigger voice to stand up to these things. I can think of several experiences I’ve had in the past that I’ve ‘let go’ - but were wrong and made me very uncomfortable. Equally - it’s awful that your friends reputation, career will be damaged by this even if he isn’t found guilty. Both people will be damaged by this event - and it makes me see the importance of treating others with respect, and not to jump into bed straight away with someone you meet on a dating app.

@Silverthorny thank you. It’s hard to be objective. I have said to him are you site you didn’t miss read the signals? He said no, if she said stop I would have. But no one was there. He says he stopped it as was going fast. I have given him hell for meeting a random woman and putting them both in this situation. It was easily avoided by not going back for sex.

@Sssloou yea the intensity is hard. I support him, but don’t understand why someone would be doing this is not true. It’s based on what She thinks happened. In a weird way I am glad the police are taking her account seriously as many women are too scared. Also given him a kick to behave better.

We spent few hours together and I asked him to not talk about it. Just a normal day. He apologised for the stress.