Conflicted - accused of a crime.

[MamaMiaoff]

My male friend has been accused of sexual assault a month ago and I am conflicted.

He met her off a dating app and they started to send dirty texts. They met for a walk, hit if off and decided to met at a house that evening. He says they got on really well. She was all over him within the hour. He said he calmed it down as although he thought he was in for a promise wanted to chat and relax.

He says an hour later she went to get a drink, stood up and felt odd. She then accused him of giving her drugs. He doesn’t do drugs. She called a friend and said he was making her uncomfortable. He said at that point he left as she was shouting at him not to forward the pictures he took that night. He says there was none. Police has his phone.

Over the next few days she sent him many messages. Accusing him of being a bad man, then prayers of saving his soul and saying she was glad she didn’t do anything more with him than kiss. Then next message she is reporting him to the police for being bad? His friends and me told him to ignore her, but save the messages as they were odd. His last message a few days later was please leave me alone.

That day she went to the police and reported that she blanked out for 20 minutes, he spiked her and thinks he did something to her as she was sore in her private areas a few days later.

My friend got arrested, suspended from his job whilst investigation is ongoing. He is destroyed. He has admitted he thought he was in for a sex, but says he wouldn't expect it if she changed her mind. I believe he would never force anyone to do anything. I have been in a relationship with him and he was very respectful. Not the greatest boyfriend, and has a string of failed relationships.

But - Why go through the invasive procedure of a rape kit if the girl was not sure or lying. They didn’t know each other, so it can’t be revenge.

I believe my friend. But small doubts as it’s a traumatic thing to be investigated for by the women and certainly very serious to be lying. Why out yourself through it?

How do I support? What do I do?

@Heyahun how long did it take for the investigation to close

I don't think its allways a straight forward case she either mentally unwell who was taking advantage of by sexual deviant character

Or

She is manipulative Lier,

I can be a case of aswell,
she could have emotionally have a lot of emotional baggage issues/personality disorders

And also be a victim being taking advantage of her vulnerablity by op male friend

Or

She could be needy manipulative/ messed up/personality disorders who knows how to play the system to her advantage?

Sometimes things in life are not allways as clear, straight forward as black and white

Sometimes things/situations can be very messy.

Someone is lying
Which one is it.!

Your male friend op
Maybe is not what you thought he was.!?

The lawyer says her account doesn’t fit together as the story has been changed by her 3 times. But we know trauma can do this

Do you mean he told you his solicitor said this? I’m guessing all you have is the stuff he says?

I wouldn’t automatically say the police will believe her or take her phone. I’m 3 years into my case and they still haven’t taken the phone I had locked up in my office by HR away from me so they can’t accuse me of deleting anything. They are quite frankly shit at rape and abuse.

You can’t know if he’s lying or she is, pretty sure my rapists friends all think I’m a liar, but then a minute number of women do lie.

If you believe your friend support him, you can only let he legal system do it’s job, it is likely he will never face any action, you won’t ever know the actual truth so it has to be just down to your choice.

@Bluntness100 he has the lawyer on speaker phone when I was there as e was writing down what she said, so I heard.

@thosetalesofunexpected I would like to think he doesn’t pray on vulnerable. He has a history of going out with people who have past issues. But when I went out with him, he was fine. Never took advantage of me for anything.

Well if she's accusing him of rape the forensics will give an answer.

I don't believe he is necessarily lying. He might have thought he was on a promise but her behaviour then so strange that the man backed off. I know a lot of blokes that would back off in the face of clearly unhinged behaviour. Not all men want the woman all over them. It's offputting.

DH was on OLD before we me and he had a similar encounter. He was scared she had a hidden agenda and made his excuses and left. He got a tonne of abusive texts from her accusing him of being gay, inadequate and leading her on etc., none of which was true. He dodged a bullet basically. He is confident to this day that if he had had sex with her she would have claimed he raped her when she sobered up.

A friend of mine had this happen to him when we were at uni.
He met a girl on night out, few kisses etc and she suggests going back to his place to carry things on.
The walk out of the bar, she pulls him into a side alley on the way to the taxi and does some sexual things with him.
They didn’t go home because they both felt too drunk, he gave her his number as they planned to meet up the next night.

He doesn’t here from her again so thinks she’s lost interest.

A few days later he wakes up to texts “How could you do this to me? You’ve ruined my life!!! You’ll pay for this!”. He doesn’t know who it is so he replies asking who and what is going on??
No reply.

Then a couple of days later the police turn up at his house and arrest him for attempted rape.
He lost his part time job, was kicked off his uni course, had to move out of his shared living student house as understandably the girls living there didn’t want a “rapist” living with them.

It went on for 18 months and finally went to trial on little to no evidence all because it transpires the girl was 15 (friend was only 19 at the time and had no idea she was underage as she had been drinking with her friends in a student bar all night).

At trial he wasn’t allowed to see her. She testified behind a screen, sobbing. My friend was heartbroken and had resigned himself to the fact he was likely to go to prison for a crime that didn’t take place.

2 days before the end of the trial the defence team are sent CCTV footage from a random camera on the side of a derelict building which the police had assumed was broken. The owner of the building was a foreign National and lived abroad.

The footage clearly showed the “victim” was lying. It clearly showed her instigate all of the sexual activity, including pinning my friend against a wall and putting her hands down his jeans etc.

At the end of the footage you could clearly see them kiss, him putting his number in her phone and go in opposite directions.

It was all lies. Charges were dropped and that was that. But my friend’s life was left in tatters. He sank into a depression and tried to kill himself.

The girl got no punishment for her lies, her name was even kept out of the papers as she was underage at the time of the crime. She walked away and was able to carry on her life as normal.

It’s sick and so wrong.

Some people do make up sexual assault claims. Your friend could very well be innocent.

Most people who swear they were spiked are usually 'just' very drunk.

It sounds from his account of things that nothing happened, she's just a bit unstable.

It's highly unlikely he'll face many legal repercussions given how the police are about sexual crime. I'm surprised he's even been suspended- that actually may mean there's more going on than you're being told about. I do know what I'm talking about as I've reported rapes twice in recent years.

Either way, be very careful around this person from now on, even if he gets let off (which he probably will, whether he's done it or not.)

@Spongebobnopants they found footage after 18 months? That was one lucky man.

@RantyAnty

He's lying.

How disgusting of you- you have NO idea if he’s lying. You should be ashamed. He MIGHT be lying, equally SHE might be lying.

@Windmillwhirl yep! He is the luckiest man alive!!!
The camera footage used to get recorded onto discs back then, then dates written on and stored. They were 48hr discs and the system held 6 discs.
Not long after that they stopped the recordings as it wasn’t necessary.

Months later by pure coincidence, someone who worked for the owner of the building saw a local newspaper article about the ongoing trial and thought to check the discs and found they had them from that period and took them to police station.

It’s insane. My friend was looking at serving prison time and was put through the trauma of a trial!

What a story! I watch a lot of true crime and these cameras have convicted and saved many. But after that length of time..... incredible. God love him.

Sorry to derail thread.

@Windmillwhirl unfortunately he died only a few years later, not suicide but a rare form of bone cancer. He was only 24 when he died and the accusations and what that girl put him through ruined the last part of his life.
I always try to forgive and forget, but some things it’s virtually impossible to.

What a cruel, horrible end. I'm so sorry for your friend. May he rip after all he went through.

@RantyAnty

He's lying.

Don't be mental!

I wonder why you felt the need to post this thread. Why after a whole month do you feel conflicted? Maybe you do have some doubts about your friend. Lots of short relationships, seems to get into relationships with vulnerable women - what’s that all about do you think - regardless of this situation?

Why are you so deeply involved in the details of this - how has it come about that YOU have physically heard him speak with police, solicitor and counsellor?

Do you feel vulnerable and feel that you are being used here? How much of a good close personal friend is he for you to have given him this much support?

If you are feeling overwhelmed, drained and conflicted by this - you need to pull back a bit - let some other friends step in to support him for a bit if it’s too intense for you.

Do you feel comfortable doing this ? How would he react? How has his demeanour been / or changed in the last month compared to his usual self?

It can happen, my ex friend when I was younger lied about a guy raping her. She was just unwell to be honest, always wanted attention, at first it was rape then pregnant then mismarriage then she's moved away and had a baby and sent family and friends pictures of someone else's kid pretending to be hers...

@RantyAnty

He's lying.

Of course.

He's a man and women never lie.

Maybe the police can decide?

@Sssloou involved as I am one of two people he has told. He was destroyed. As a friend you support. He is stressed, depressed questioning himself. Embarrassed that due to policy he can’t work.

He has short relationships as he always thinks the grass is greener, saviour complex ( why we didn’t work as I don’t want saved). New people more exciting.

It is draining and I pulled back a bit. But keeping him in a routine by walks and support.

My doubt is why would a woman put herself through this on a lie, especially as they just met.

My gut says they were going to have a sexual relationship and she changed her mind and in her panic something was said that neither picked up on. She is saying she dues to know what happened and police said until proven he is on bail.

He was with me when lawyer called.

I’m surprised at the amount of personal experience that people have of women lying about sexual assault to the extent that they go to trial (albeit indirect experience).
I’ve little doubt that the police would deal legally with someone making false allegations of such a serious nature (and I suspect the 15 year old case above was possibly taken so seriously because of her age, rather than that she was such a convincing liar). Lucky for those men who have had the police or court system or cctv reveal the truth. Sadly, many people subjected to sexual assault never get the same validation.

OP - were the texts weird because part of them were missing, by any chance?

I’m asking because it’s one thing for his solicitor to bang on about how the woman must be ill or a lack of evidence etc. But until the solicitor sees the evidence the police have she cannot really say anything with certainty.

I hope this is resolved the right way

@Krazynights34
Nothing seemed missing. Was WhatsApp and it tells you if something was deleted. But with technology police will tell. Same as dna.

Lawyer was saying this based on her accounts. Didn’t say she was ill, just didn’t add up. When she said was spiked, she had phoned her friend 3 times as mine was leaving. Said she doesn’t remember

It’ll probably come to nothing then OP.

It might be a dreadful experience for your friend but the police are doing the right thing. It’s good that they are investigating. I’m assuming that he’s been charged then, if he is on bail...

I’m hoping he’s being honest but he might not be the good guy he seems to be. I had to report a consultant who touched me sexually a couple of years ago. The police were robust. Challenging my evidence etc. They interviewed him and I found out why the hospital didn’t believe my account/wrote to me as if I had been delirious... namely that said consultant was in a same sex marriage.
I guess I’m saying- just because it might seem that the accuser is mentally unwell, or malicious, doesn’t mean she is. Trauma had a profound effect on people. And there’s no way I would have reported that consultant to anyone for malicious reasons. Appreciate it’s a different situation but I suppose I mean I understand how you are conflicted!! I’m sure mr consultant’s friends and colleagues have a right laugh at me. I’m sure some of my friends do too. But it did happen..

@Krazynights34

It’ll probably come to nothing then OP.

It might be a dreadful experience for your friend but the police are doing the right thing. It’s good that they are investigating. I’m assuming that he’s been charged then, if he is on bail...

I’m hoping he’s being honest but he might not be the good guy he seems to be. I had to report a consultant who touched me sexually a couple of years ago. The police were robust. Challenging my evidence etc. They interviewed him and I found out why the hospital didn’t believe my account/wrote to me as if I had been delirious... namely that said consultant was in a same sex marriage.
I guess I’m saying- just because it might seem that the accuser is mentally unwell, or malicious, doesn’t mean she is. Trauma had a profound effect on people. And there’s no way I would have reported that consultant to anyone for malicious reasons. Appreciate it’s a different situation but I suppose I mean I understand how you are conflicted!! I’m sure mr consultant’s friends and colleagues have a right laugh at me. I’m sure some of my friends do too. But it did happen..

I'm so sorry you went through that @Krazynights34

There’s his version, her version and then there’s the truth
Maybe she’s unhinged or maybe he assaulted her but (luckily?) for your friend there is no evidence that he did assault her and the text messages sound like there’s evidence she’s nuts
Crazy people do get assaulted though, some men target them as it’s less likely they will be believed.

@Hoppinggreen they do sounds nuts. I really want to believe my friend. Slight doubt as she has put herself through a horrible investigation for supposedly no reason. Why?

That’s what I can’t process. He texted this morning asked if he should drive to just bail or taxi as he isn’t sure if it gets extended or not