Please help me understand how it is better for my son to have shared custody between me and my abusive husband, than for me to stick this out

[sc4red]

I have been married for several years and have a son under the age of one. My husband is emotionally abusive to me on a daily basis. He gaslights me constantly, tells trivial lies regularly, calls me names, puts me down, mocks me, criticises me, gives me the silent treatment etc. I have learnt so so so many lessons from this relationship and have done so much work on myself, and I truly understand how I have ended up in this situation.

If we didn’t have our son I would divorce him tomorrow but we do. I see him interact with him and he shouts at him whenever he gets frustrated (basically every time my son cries), is very rough with him with changing nappies and so on. It truly breaks my heart to witness this. My original plan was to stick this out until my son graduates (Yes the next 20 years), purely so that I could monitor all the interactions and intervene where necessary and protect my son as much as possible. Now I’m at the point where I just don’t know if I can go through with that. It is taking its toll on me mentally and emotionally and I am permanently drained.

If we were to divorce, I imagine worst case scenario he would get 50% access. I feel it doesn’t matter if I document things, there’s no physical evidence, he’ll just deny it all and so I have to just work with what’s within my control and that is the reality that he will have my son half the time. In the event we divorce, my husband will move back to his parents house and live there and his parents are extremely abusive too (where my husband has evidently learned all this stuff from). His parents hate me because I haven’t been obedient etc, and I just know he and his parents will talk badly about me and treat my son poorly (which is the norm to them). I feel like I am throwing my son to the wolves just to keep myself happy? I read all the time that people say by staying my son will learn an awful lesson about what relationships are like. But by leaving he’s going to be subjected to extremely unhealthy behaviours for all the time he is with them, and should my husband remarry (I am confident he will), my son will just be subjected to that toxic relationship.

I feel physically sick at the thought of everything that will go on whilst my son is not in my care. My husband will allow his parents and extended family to take my son wherever and do whatever and there will be no regard for his safety, and he will learn so much unhealthy, toxic stuff. I can’t understand how on earth it is better for me to divorce my husband than stay for the sake of my son?

Also should I leave I am financially secure and will have a place of my own so that’s not an issue. And I can’t even be bothered to fight him for child maintenance because I know he will fiddle his accounts etc

Op , please leave. It will be the best decision you make. My ex used to threaten to take the kids every time I said I wanted to leave, it's what kept me back. These bastards always make threats like this. Long story short , forget 50/50, the kids don't see him! I know you must feel so trapped ..... sometimes you have to take a leap on faith and move into a new phase of life , a happy life ....

I wish my mom had left. No, she wouldn’t have been able to protect me during his custody time and that would have been a big problem. In fairness, I’m old enough that 50:50 would have been unlikely. But if if it had, I would have had large swaths of time where I could actually relax and be comfortable in my own home. Even if the emotional abuse is primarily directed at the mother, the kids walk around in fight or flight mode every second dad is home. They hear him at the door and it’s not, hooray, Dad’s home, it’s jump up and tidy up and look productive and slap on a smile so there is nothing to set him off.

@Oldat40

The courts ruled 50/50 seven years ago in my case - our boys were just 3 and 6. I just couldn't take the abuse any more. I was the main carer. If I am honest I do often regret leaving. He is now applying for even more custody.

I saw your other thread and I am so sorry - both for the situation you are in and the fact that there was so much agression on the thread. I suspect part of it came from the fact that yours is the worst case scenario so I think a lot of other women need to find a justification for it because its scary. Based on your thread it seems likely that he wont get more custody - he is basically just in a pattern of taking you to court time and time again to scare you/cost you money. Its shit though.

MixedUpFiles

Your post has meant a lot to me. Thank you.

@namitynamechange Thank you for saying that, I appreciate it. You are right - mine did end up worst case scenario and you'd very unlucky to come across somebody quite as evil as my ex. I think sometimes people can't actually quite believe how badly the "justice" system has let down myself and my children and yes, it does frighten people.

He is so little. Get him out RIGHT NOW.

Detail all the behaviour and towards your son.

Refuse access.

Better to be in a separate home where you can call in every possible support to protect you both.

50-50? You must be joking. The court rules for the child's best interest. If as a judge I had evidenced before me aggressive and abusive behaviour towards a baby/toddler plus history of abuse to the mother, that father would have limited supervised visits.

You might think he's too little to be damaged by this, but he isn't. Go earlier, not later. You will have to go at some point. So get on with it.

Sorry don't mean to sound harsh - just - you child will be damaged by this. You already are. Neither of you have to suffer this. Bring a parent is not a right. It needs to be deserved. He doesn't deserve to be a parent.

My child has been significantly damaged by an abusive, erratic, aggressive, cruel, disruptive, lying, stealing, controlling 'father'. It's taken too long for me to sort this out and if she were 1 now, he'd be straight out of the door. But unfortunately he became very dangerous too so we were trapped.

If your 'dear' co-parent isn't dangerous, nothing should hold you back. Really.

Youre much better off leaving for both yours and your sons sake. I very much doubt he would get 50/50 access. Especially if you offer reasonable access such as weekends.

My youngest ds dad is very similar to what you have described and I was concerned about his contact. It turned out a lot of his behaviour towards our son was to ensure that I did all of the heavy lifting to avoid his outbursts, so that he didn't need to do it.

When we broke up he did take him and told me I wouldn't see him again, but I got him back after a few days. After a slow reintroduction to contact a routine was set of weekend contact overnights and it has been that way for a number of years now.

He is not so bad when he's just around our son as he wants to be seen as the best parent, so is forever competing. My ds is able to see both sides of us and he still prefers to be here than he does there.
Dad does talk about me a lot, but ds refuses to engage. Where as I dont say anything negative about his dad. So as small as these things may seem, the child is able to see the difference and recognise what is happening. Ds also knows I'm nothing of what his dad says. This was harder when he was younger, obviously but you just have to grin and bear it.

Just wanted to give you a possible view from the other side of it all. My situation turned out far better and even created a better father for my ds.

Go to woman's aid. They might have a lawyer offering an initial free legal session.

@muppette Sadly this isn't always true. I suffered at the hands of an abusive ex years ago but because it was never physical he was awarded 50/50 of our 3 and 6 yo. The abuse was bad then and still continues. He is now applying for even more custody having turned my 13 yo against me.

If you stay he has full-time access to your son. If you go, he might - MIGHT - have 50%. You can't be there every second to protect your son by staying. That's a delusion.
Remember that he'll need a new victim and is likely to lose interest in you and your son if you move far enough away to make it inconvenient for him.
You can document his behaviour with video. Either on your phone from the rear, or tiny spy video devices. If you go that route be extremely careful and clever about where you put them. Only do it when you have your exit plan in motion. Never tell him or show him what you've recorded. That's for you, your solicitor and the authorities if you need it. If you try to show off that you've gained the upper hand and show how clever you by declaring that you've recorded him, the abuse may escalate.
Take the advice of Women's Aid.
If it were me, I'd disappear and move away where he'd never find us.

Finally, no you are absolutely not protecting your son by staying.

Leave. For yourself. For your child. You can't be a buffer and it is soul destroying. If he would use your child as a weapon if you leave, he will use your child as a weapon if you stay.

You won't be able to be the person and mother you want to be any of the time if you stay. If you leave he can't stop you from being the person and mother you want to be at least some of the time.

You can't control him. He will do what he will do. Release him. Don't give him anything to fight against. Focus your energy on yourself and your child. If he is feeding on your energy he will wither.

Note - you can't do this if you stay. You would have to be operating at 100% 24/7 365 and on guard for decades. What would happen if you were ill or bereaved? Abusers strike when you are vulnerable but being human means being vulnerable some of the time.

He could use such an opportunity to make your child believe you couldn't cope and that they were totally dependant on him.

My H did this after my DM died. Pretending to be kind but excluding me, actually telling me to stay in the bedroom whilst family life continued like nothing had happened, except without me. The D.C. weren't allowed to come and see me. He would cook tea for him and them but there would be nothing for me. I felt like I didn't exist. Then he would go to London all day for work meetings and the D.C. would panic. They couldn't cope with the cognitive dissonance. Mum can't cope/mum can cope. Neither could I. If I am so useless, why are you happy to leave D.C. with me? You don't want to live this.

He's left now and we are all so much happier.

[quote Oldat40]@muppette Sadly this isn't always true. I suffered at the hands of an abusive ex years ago but because it was never physical he was awarded 50/50 of our 3 and 6 yo. The abuse was bad then and still continues. He is now applying for even more custody having turned my 13 yo against me.[/quote]
Very sorry to hear that 💐

Your voice should prevail and someone should see sense. I hope you have very good legal support.

@muppette

He is so little. Get him out RIGHT NOW.

Detail all the behaviour and towards your son.

Refuse access.

Better to be in a separate home where you can call in every possible support to protect you both.

50-50? You must be joking. The court rules for the child's best interest. If as a judge I had evidenced before me aggressive and abusive behaviour towards a baby/toddler plus history of abuse to the mother, that father would have limited supervised visits.

I know this post comes from a kind place, but it is so staggering naive You can’t ‘refuse contact’ ffs MN is full of horrific posts from women battling with abusive exes and losing

OP, your situation is heartbreaking and I completely agree there is no easy answer.
My best friend left her awful ex, and he has gone wild in the courts.

She is forced to hand over her boys every week knowing their time with their dad will be a combination of them being yelled at for any minor infraction, pumped full of junk food at odd hours because he can’t stick to the most basic schedule, and then taking themselves to bed whenever they fancy it so they come back to her knackered and in foul moods.

She is trying to homeschool while their dad tells them they don’t have to, she is trying to manage a health condition of the older one while he tells the DS that he is fine and mum is ‘mad’

It’s a hideous situation

@GappyValley I agree with you (see my previous posts). I naively though divorce would be the end of the control but now it continues through my children.
Financially I am/also continue to be abused but far worse than that my ex is attempting to turn my children against me. It is all about "punishment" because I dared to leave. I am not sure it was worth it seven years on.

[quote Oldat40]@namitynamechange Thank you for saying that, I appreciate it. You are right - mine did end up worst case scenario and you'd very unlucky to come across somebody quite as evil as my ex. I think sometimes people can't actually quite believe how badly the "justice" system has let down myself and my children and yes, it does frighten people.[/quote]
I couldn't quite work it out having followed a few of your threads. It's that disbelief, that the courts can and do get it so wrong at times. It's less confronting to think the poster is somehow not doing enough then to accept that sometimes even if you do the right thing and leave, that sometimes that worse case scenario still happens.

@namitynamechange post hit the nail on the head. There is a lot of naivety on here.

All I could think reading a PPs post about thinking things would have been better if their mum had left, was you don't actually know that. I know when we separate that my eldest will feel anxious while with me thinking of the time without me. I know him, he won't feel calmer because his dad isn't in the house, he will feel anxious knowing time without me is coming. Partly this is because I'm his safe person, partly because his dad has very little patience and a tendency to get angry and yell. I'm not saying this in the sense that I think anyone should stay in an abusive or toxic marriage. But I don't think it's helpful to try and shut down the voices of

I think you are putting the damage he might have in the future, which is speculative at the moment, with the real and actual damage that is being done now. Your son is growing up in the same type of household his father grew up in. It leaves no option but to leave. If your H mentions shared parenting don't react and let him know it bothers you, more say that's good as it will allow me to work and make a new relationship. Make it a negative for him to have your DS, and make it seem a negative for you to have him all the time. If he does go for some type of shared parenting (it sounds as though he doesn't really want to anyway) you can start to challenge this as DS get older and can say more about what he wants.

( accidental post)
I don't think it's helpful to try and shut down the voices of women who have found the reality of LTabusiveB didn't free them or their children from the abuse like so many posters on MN say it will. We need the full narrative so that people know their is still so much needed to be done so that the law and the courts protect victims of abuse, both child and partners. We need the full narrative because the simplic LTB and your DC will be protected rings false to those of us who have experienced the opposite for ourselves or friends or family. Women who have experiences like Oldat40 deserve to be able to tell their stories and get support rather than platitudes or blame. The solution is often more complex than LTB. Its an import step and no one should stay in abusive or toxic relationships, but women need more than that. They need support and resources and knowledge post LTB. And all victims of DV need a spotlight shone on these issues so that systemic change can happen. If we burying the voices of women who are still trapped by their abuser's behaviour post separation then we are denying the need for further change in these areas and we are hurting highly vulnerable women.

All I could think reading a PPs post about thinking things would have been better if their mum had left, was you don't actually know that.

I do know that. If my mum had left, I wouldn’t have grown up thinking that kind of relationship was normal and ok, or believing that my dad’s behaviour was my fault. I wouldn’t have married someone similar and struggled to break the cycle.

I hated spending time with my dad. The one time my mum went away overnight when I was about 9 I pined all weekend. But o honestly think my relationship with him would have been better without my mum tiptoeing around him and trying to act as a buffer between us, and the damaging messages I learnt - don’t challenge him, don’t rock the boat, your opinion, boundaries and feelings don’t matter, we just all humour him, wouldn’t have been ingrained.

Your child might dread the time without you. But I honestly believe that the impact of living in an abusive home is far worse than that.
And I am under no illusions that the family courts act in the best interests of children.

Kintsuji your second post is brilliant an important and I wholeheartedly agree.

I think that anyone who hasn’t experienced the family courts first hand has no clue how they work and how they harm women and children in so many cases. That’s in both public and private law cases.

@ArosAdraDrosDolig

Kintsuji your second post is brilliant an important and I wholeheartedly agree.

I think that anyone who hasn’t experienced the family courts first hand has no clue how they work and how they harm women and children in so many cases. That’s in both public and private law cases.

Nevertheless, pp should read Oldat40's actual posts and make their own judgement as to whether her circumstances are in any way similar to their own.

Of course no-one has any clue about how family courts operate until they use them, but in my experience they put the needs of the children first over and above the feelings of the parents, and that is as it should be.

Good legal advice from a lawyer who specialises in family law is key. However, the best legal advice won't change the fact that some parents will continue to have unrealistic expectations.

@Kintsuji I really do hugely appreciate what you have said here. Sadly, as another poster has referred to, others on MN have been less than kind and that has been hard to take, especially during the times I have found myself in a very dark place to begin with.
When I found the courage to leave my ex-husband years ago, I kind of just assumed legal system and the family courts would see quite clearly what was going on, that what I had endured would come to an end.
How wrong I was.
To this day the perpetual cycle of abuse is constantly minimised; not just by those simply passing judgement, but by so many supposed "professionals". I live in fear. I don't sleep. All I see when I close my eyes are my boys being taken away from me until there comes a time when I may never see them again at all. Their vulnerable minds will become too poisoned for reconciliation.
It is hard to describe how it feels, but it's almost like a grief knowing that the mum you always wanted to be isn't the one you were allowed to become.
I will keep fighting although I know there may come a time when the battle has been lost.

Oldat40 for you.

Your story breaks my heart. I’m going through a contact battle just now ( involving domestic abuse) and the prospect of losing my DC haunts me every day. Are you in touch with some of the campaigning groups? Even if campaigning isn’t your bag, you will find lots of support.

OP, I can totally understand your reluctance to leave. I do wonder sometimes if I did the right thing. But I always end up realising I did. He currently has no contact, but that may not last forever. For all the reasons pp have given, overall I do think you need to leave.

However, I think you need to do it carefully. Please speak to a solicitor who understands domestic abuse and the threat of your ex using the parental alienation counterclaim. You need to be really careful about this. Google Rachel Watson books- she blogs a lot about this. Speak to women’s aid. Read books about domestic abuse. Knowledge is power.

My dC was 5 when our situation kicked off. Younger than that and it is difficult for them to verbalise what they are experiencing. Older than that and their relationship with the perpetrator is more established.

Good luck oP.

Also, it is well established that the family courts in England and Wales ( and to a lesser extent Scotland) do not take domestic abuse seriously.

There are a lot of people fighting for change, but currently it is pretty horrendous.

Read “See what you made me do” by Jess Hill. The chapter “ Through the looking Glass” will give you nightmares. I don’t want to scare you oP but you need to navigate this carefully- but you still need to leave.

Do you have support? You will need it, for many years to come, likely.