Please help me understand how it is better for my son to have shared custody between me and my abusive husband, than for me to stick this out

[sc4red]

I have been married for several years and have a son under the age of one. My husband is emotionally abusive to me on a daily basis. He gaslights me constantly, tells trivial lies regularly, calls me names, puts me down, mocks me, criticises me, gives me the silent treatment etc. I have learnt so so so many lessons from this relationship and have done so much work on myself, and I truly understand how I have ended up in this situation.

If we didn’t have our son I would divorce him tomorrow but we do. I see him interact with him and he shouts at him whenever he gets frustrated (basically every time my son cries), is very rough with him with changing nappies and so on. It truly breaks my heart to witness this. My original plan was to stick this out until my son graduates (Yes the next 20 years), purely so that I could monitor all the interactions and intervene where necessary and protect my son as much as possible. Now I’m at the point where I just don’t know if I can go through with that. It is taking its toll on me mentally and emotionally and I am permanently drained.

If we were to divorce, I imagine worst case scenario he would get 50% access. I feel it doesn’t matter if I document things, there’s no physical evidence, he’ll just deny it all and so I have to just work with what’s within my control and that is the reality that he will have my son half the time. In the event we divorce, my husband will move back to his parents house and live there and his parents are extremely abusive too (where my husband has evidently learned all this stuff from). His parents hate me because I haven’t been obedient etc, and I just know he and his parents will talk badly about me and treat my son poorly (which is the norm to them). I feel like I am throwing my son to the wolves just to keep myself happy? I read all the time that people say by staying my son will learn an awful lesson about what relationships are like. But by leaving he’s going to be subjected to extremely unhealthy behaviours for all the time he is with them, and should my husband remarry (I am confident he will), my son will just be subjected to that toxic relationship.

I feel physically sick at the thought of everything that will go on whilst my son is not in my care. My husband will allow his parents and extended family to take my son wherever and do whatever and there will be no regard for his safety, and he will learn so much unhealthy, toxic stuff. I can’t understand how on earth it is better for me to divorce my husband than stay for the sake of my son?

Also should I leave I am financially secure and will have a place of my own so that’s not an issue. And I can’t even be bothered to fight him for child maintenance because I know he will fiddle his accounts etc

My kids are at their dad's almost 50% of the time. He has strong narcissistic tendencies and is incredibly strict.

Leaving him 4 years ago was the best decision I ever made. My kids and I now have a light, happy home where their friends hang out (before lockdown), have lots of joy and laughter....plus pure ease!

That's all mainly because I am happy and they see it!

It also means that I'm able to support them when they complain about their experiences with their dad.....in a way that I couldn't when we were married (because we had to come across as one team).

Allowing them to vent when they need to and helping them decide how best they would like to handle any experiences (non violence - mainly being let down, not being present with them, not allowing independence and being generally strict) means that they feel heard and do not hold in feelings that they need help processing.

Please don't stay. Create a happy home experience - for your son's sake (& yours too)!

Leave. I was your child. My mum stayed and protected me when she was around but could not be around all the time. I have flashback of abuse. When I was a few years old I hid in the wardrobe to wait until mum was back. I was put down by him. If I could not spell the word (later discovered that I have dyslexia) he would hit me and ask to spell again. I was 7 at the time. I remember being 5 and my room was not clean, he came in the middle of night and I had to clean up before being able to go back to sleep. The only happy memories are with my mum but only if he wasn't around. Needless to say, I struggle emotionally as an adult.

You can also move far away and just cite domestic abuse if he gets wind of your big move. No district judge is going to force you both to stay local if you are scared of him. Refuse to disclose your address in court for safety reasons.

OMG yes, please leave him. If he's rough with the baby he's a danger to him. Remember cases like Baby P, Victoria Climbie. This man is not safe to be around a small child.

If you stay with him, your child will grow up traumatised and thinking that this type of treatment is normal. Traumatised kids become fucked up adults. You are not doing your little boy ANY favours by staying.

Please please leave. You and your child deserve better.

@sc4red "I have had endless discussions with him. He says he is unhappy but is convinced that it is my fault because I won't have sex with him. I've made it clear I will not have sex with someone who treats me with disrespect. I truly the think the core problem is he really lacks emotional intelligence. He has no desire to work on himself or improve." DH blames me for the same reason. Everything would be fine if he just got what he wanted, more sex, more support and me doing all the DC and household chores with zero input from him. He wouldn't be stressed at work anymore if we had more sex. Apparently he'd be nicer to me too. Its messed up thinking your SO should have sex with you in order to be treated decently.

Seperating feels like I'd be saving myself at the expense of my DC. I know that's a faulty argument, it's letting fear control me. I'm trying to get there, it's so hard, but the longer you stay, the more damage you take. It eats away at you.

This happened to me. It will mean that your son experiences one home filled with straightforward and honest joy.

Make him think that you want him to have 50% - you are dealing with someone who will want to do the opposite to what you want. If he thinks you will be happy, have time to yourself, the opportunity to date etc that will piss him off. If he thinks you have a date or similar he is likely not to turn up.
Document everything he does - preferably secure email or similar so it can't be found and destroyed
Screenshot any incriminating text messages
You need as much evidence as you can get -
When you do leave keep communication to text or email so you have proof of everything

Don't leave a note. Email the police so they know not to search for you.

You're comparing the worst case scenario if you split up to the best case scenario of staying together.

If you stay together, there's every chance he could still turn him against you as the abuse will become normal to him as he sees you putting up with it. If you stay together your son will either become normalised to the abuse thinking this is what a normal relationship is like or best case scenario he hates his dad and hates you for staying.

If you're nice to your son and his dad is not, I don't think it's at all likely that your son will turn against you. FWIW my mum bad mouthed my dad constantly and I never once fell for it and my dad wasn't exactly parent of the year either.

If you split up, there's every chance he could get bored once he sees he can't get to you anymore or he could start a new family and won't bother with your son anymore. Your son is young enough now that his father could be a distant memory to him in the future. If there was even a small chance that my child could be away from this man I would take it.

Yes, it would very likely absolutely be better for him to be in a happy stable home part of the time with you than to risk raising him in an abusive unhappy home 100% of the time.

My dad was exactly like your dh sounds. He was abusive and mean and manipulative. My mum finally left him when I was 8. I felt like I walked around on egg shells all those years though. Thankfully, I had amazing grandparents who cared for me while my mum worked and after school and I also spent a lot of weekends with them too. My mum made sure I was pretty much never left alone with my dad in those years. When she left, he told her that if she fought him for maintenance (it was technically court ordered, but he refused to pay it), he would fight for 50% access to me. In reality, he couldn't have been bothered, even with family help as he had little interest in being a parent and even the most spiteful person is worn down pretty quickly by the realities of actually having to parent if they have never done it before. She said fine. She walked away with me and my dad never paid maintenance and I only had to see him supervised a couple times a year.

We had a great life. When he died, she sued his estate for 10 years of back maintenance and won, so in the end, she got what she deserved anyway. I shudder to think what my life would be like if she had stayed with him. I have good self esteem and have a really happy, healthy marriage and I think that's because I grew up with the example of how to not take anyone else's bullshit and how to stand up for myself.

Leaving him 4 years ago was the best decision I ever made. My kids and I now have a light, happy home

Which you are in all the time while they cope with this incredibly strict man for half their lives. You're there for them to complain to but essentially living your best life while they're going through this. I don't see it.

@sc4red

Also I always see people say 'the husband will never commit to having the children 50% of the time' but believe me he will, just to spite me. And he will dump my son on his parents and head off out

Yes, sadly although USUALLY they do decide they dont want 50% this is not guaranteed - and I think you are wise to prepare for the fact that they may go for that and stick to it. One thing I found (having been in a similar situation) is that if you stay you end up being very controlled - not only that but your own interactions with your son are controlled so you cant parent a you like. Plus you are not actually in a position to "stand up" to them for the sake of your son. Worse than that, your sons "failings" (e.g. being a cry-baby at the age of 18 months) will be blamed on you. To prevent big arguements that could affect your child you will need to placate, placate, placate your husband and wind up parenting your son with this in mind ("dont cry now, daddys coming have a biscuit, quick mile"). So your own parenting will be hugely affected. If you leave you get space to parent as you wish and can create a safe space for your son. Additionally, the fact your son is to young is likely to work to your advantage regarding custody - especially as you say your husband has less impact. The more you wait the more involved he is likely to be in your sons life (when he becomes "interesting") and the less you can argue the child needs to be with his primary care giver. From that perspective sooner rather than later i better. But dont take my word for this, find a really good lawyer and find out exactly what evidence you need to tip the balance in your favour - e.g. paperwork showing who arranges doctors appointments etc. Is he sill breastfeeding.?

Finally, in my own experience, they may want 50/50 to punish you but will also NOT want you meeting someone else. They know having the child most of the time makes life much more difficult especially when it is a baby/toddler/

So I would say hope for the best (he loses interest) but prepare for the worst (get the best legal advice you can, dont assume he wont stick to 50/50, be prepared to play him). I still think shared custody will be better for you and your child than your current situation. And remember, he is a small baby now but soon he will be in school etc so there will be additional positive influences in his life even if he does have to spend more time with his dad than you would like).

Incidentally, when he finds out you are leaving he may well become more physical. I hope that does happen but if it does DOCUMENT everything and make sure the police are aware/ideally prosecute. Dont feel sorry for him and regret not reporting it later.
And make sure he doesnt find this thread.

@CaptainM I hope you don't mind me flagging, 50/50 care is my biggest fear in this. How do your DC go living 50% with their dad? Is he better/worse/same with them as he was before you split up.

50/50s my fear, it's the norm where I live, unless one parent wants less. DH is selfish, unrealistic expectations of the kids, gets angry easily, snappy, gaslighting. Our eldest especially doesn't like to spend much time with him on his own. Which is a big barrier to seperation. I feel like he especially will feel I've let him down and left him to cope in a situation as an adult that I feel I can't go on coping with.

@kintsuji our nearly 50-50 arrangement has actually worked out far better than I was ever concerned about. Their dad is a much better dad now than he ever was - when we were married. I think it's helped that he's very competitive. The key is to focus on what's within your control. Again, there was no physical abuse - mainly financial & some emotional. We spent years in court and ultimately unless there is clear abuse, it's hard to argue against 50-50. However, courts have been known to reverse if you can show that it's not working. That's not been our experience.

Also, as they get older, they would have a say. My dcs love going to their dad's even though he has a very different approach to parenting than I do. Try not to worry too much and do the best you can....and be prepared to go back to court if whatever arrangement you end up with doesn't work.

We haven't had a need to do that, but my exH knows that I wouldn't hesitate to get back in court (I ended up as a litigant in person when the costs became prohibitive so the fear of the financial impact is no longer there).

Try to focus on what's within your control and know there is a lot of support out there, even though these levels of abuse are yet to be properly recognised by the family courts.

@kintsuji Also, don't assume he'll get 50-50. Make a record of EVERYTHING! Your son's experiences and reactions to him would hopefully be enough to persuade the judge that you're his main carer and 50-50 wouldn't work.

Our court order is very detailed and there were lots of conditions to keeping us at nearly 50-50 (they're with him every fortnight from Wed to Mon, and overnight on the alternative Wednesday).

You've had lots of greaf advice here. I did a lot of research and in my own case, I've never had any regrets. Take your time to think through which path you want to take. I met with a psychotherapist who specialises in children of separated/divorced parents before I made my final decision. It was a great opportunity to think through before finally choosing the path that has turned out to be the right one for us.

Hang in there and best wishes to you all. 🙏🏼

Thanks so much @CaptainM, I felt a little less frozen reading your posts. I'm slowly taking steps towards separation, there's a few things that need to happen in the next 6 months first that will hopefully put DH in a better place to cope with our DC on his own. Because of their SEN my two older boys already see a psychologist, who I've spoken to about what's going on in private. Youngest is only 3, so his therapies don't include a psychologist yet. I feel heartbroken thinking of not being here everyday when they're still so little. I used to feel really angry, now I feel a pervasive sadness and worry for the future. I'm too sick to work currently, so potentially looking at a future that's going to be very financially precarious. It's very unlikely I'll get better at this point, life altering not life limiting illness.

I stayed in a toxic marriage for many years ‘for the kids’, ending it last year when things reached breaking point in lockdown. DD1 told me the other day that one of her earliest memories is her dad shouting and me crying. She is 11. I feel so much guilt about staying as long as I did. She has a lot of trauma that the others don’t have because they are much younger. They were sad when we split, they miss their dad living with us, but they’re fundamentally ok. DD1 is not, and is in counselling. I should never have stayed ‘for her’

I was in a similar situation many years ago. It's a shit place to be. I used to ask him to leave quite often and he would say no and smash the place up a bit. Police weren't interested until I had managed to get him to leave (they take DV more seriously these days)

I couldn't leave as the tenancy was in my sole name and plus whenever I tried to call Women's Aid I never got through. I didn't have a phone in the house so would have to use the phone box and be quick. Parents wouldn't help, their attitude was that I had made my bed. Friends couldn't offer more than one night on a sofa and I couldn't leave the area as I never had more than £5 to my name and a load of debt and I needed to keep my job to pay the rent to keep a roof over me and DCs head (he wouldn't work, I paid for everything) I felt like you, that if I was there I could protect DC from his violence and drug abuse. If he had him unsupervised he would have been exposed to all sorts and neglected- then I assumed I would be questioned as to why I had permitted it.

I literally had to wait until he had an affair when DC was 20 months and moved in with the OW. I received a few solicitors letters via his legal aid requesting contact, which I agreed to but at a contact centre. This went on for a year or so on a once a month basis until one day when he stopped turning up.

I honestly would recommend putting a plan in place to get some physical distance away from him. Then just go grey rock, change your number and wait for him to take you to court.

If you stay this is the only life your son will know and he won’t know your fighting for him behind the scenes.
If you leave he may know a toxic situation 50% of the time but he’ll also know love and a healthy life the other 50%. He’ll have life with you as a measure to judge his life with his father and will develop capacity to know which is better, which makes him feel safe.

This has sent shivers down me as I had this same scenario. I am now happily divorced.

My ex husband was very abusive- physically, emotionally, financially and a serial cheat. He actually went off with someone else when my daughter was 2 but stupidly I took him back and the cheating and abuse continued.

As someone said, just because they aren’t in the house, it doesn’t alter anything - the house is still toxic. My daughter barely saw him as he was always working or out so I thought I could stick it out for her sake. One day he tried to kill me and I took her at 3am and left.

People do believe you. People have seen it. Your son will think it’s normal.

When I got the keys to my new house, it felt amazing. Suddenly the atmosphere I had come to accept as normal had vanished. I felt safe. I can’t describe how it felt.

I had the same worries as you about my daughter spending more time with an abuser but he’s not interested. Every year or so he drags me to a counsellor to get me to allow him to see my daughter more, but he never actually does and it’s not me stopping her anyway! She’s 12 and refuses to see him. She knows she is safe at home. He is always threatening to take her to court, but she’s old enough to have her voice heard.

Leaving isn’t an easy option but sometimes sadly it’s the only option. I did not want my daughter to think that treatment was normal. My mum treats me like it and I grew up thinking it was normal and all I deserved. I want my daughter to know what love and respect is.

This sums it up - once I asked my ex husband how he would feel if her husband had hit our daughter one day and he said he’d ask what she’d done to deserve it. I asked his dad the same question and got the same answer!

The courts ruled 50/50 seven years ago in my case - our boys were just 3 and 6. I just couldn't take the abuse any more. I was the main carer.
If I am honest I do often regret leaving. He is now applying for even more custody.

My DD was in this exact situation and she was going to stay until they were grown too. He would threaten that he would get full custody among other things.

The years of abuse wear you down and you believe the abuser is all powerful.

How she got away was to move in with a relative that lived about 2 hours away. He still harassed her by text and phone relentlessly.
He would file for divorce and then cancel it. Just all kinds of crazy things. He was a drug abuser alcoholic, had diagnosed BPD, and was also a martial arts expert. A very dangerous man.

He filed for divorce again as that was his way to get her to meet him somewhere to talk him out of it. This time, the pandemic came and the courts were closed so he couldn't just drop it.
I hired her the best SHL I could and he filed a response.
At first, he was furious and the harassment and threats increased. His attorney finally told him that if he didn't stop, she would drop him as a client.

During the time she moved, he made no effort to see the DC. None. He would rant and rave but in reality, he was too lazy to drive up there to see them.

To make a long story short, he stalled the divorce out for a year. The reality is he wasn't such a bass ass in front of the judge and he was too lazy to bother with his DC.

My DD moved again, across the country and has a great new life.

So take a deep breath and trust that you can get away from him. Even if it goes against every fear and worry right now.
Make a plan to move just far enough away to be inconvenient for him. He doesn't bother much now with DC and despite the threats he makes, the same will end up being true after you leave him.

He will stomp and threaten but when it comes down to it, they won't bother much as it's not about the DC but about controlling you.

First thing is stop talking to him about any of it. Like a PP mentioned, acting like you're happy for him to do a lot of the childcare. That way he can't use that threat against you anymore. Then get some legal advice.

The thing is statistically your son is going to turn around one day & blame you for his unhappy home life during childhood & no amount of excuses that you stayed for him is going to cut it.

People grow up & resent their parents for life over their unhappy childhoods.

At least if he has to go visit his grandparents & dad for now, he can always decide to refuse to go once he is in his teens & no court will force them once they are teenagers.

He could have a happy home life with you.

You martyring yourself can & will backfire.

I’m in a similar relationship and have the same doubts- like leaving is selfish and not in the kids best interest. But I’m coming to realise that having them grow up in a home where there’s fear and anger will only lead to them having miserable childhoods and unstable adulthoods. OP I think you already know what you have to do, if he fights you for your son: fight back. You’re in a great position to have financial security and your son is young enough that he won’t remember living with you both- he won’t miss it. You are enough to give your done the peace and safety he needs.
As others have said, he may fight you initially out of spite but sooner or later he’ll likely disappear from both of your lives and you’ll be free. Get legal advice, woman’s aid advice and have a get out plan well in advance of telling him. He won’t let you go quietly xx