Please help me understand how it is better for my son to have shared custody between me and my abusive husband, than for me to stick this out

[sc4red]

I have been married for several years and have a son under the age of one. My husband is emotionally abusive to me on a daily basis. He gaslights me constantly, tells trivial lies regularly, calls me names, puts me down, mocks me, criticises me, gives me the silent treatment etc. I have learnt so so so many lessons from this relationship and have done so much work on myself, and I truly understand how I have ended up in this situation.

If we didn’t have our son I would divorce him tomorrow but we do. I see him interact with him and he shouts at him whenever he gets frustrated (basically every time my son cries), is very rough with him with changing nappies and so on. It truly breaks my heart to witness this. My original plan was to stick this out until my son graduates (Yes the next 20 years), purely so that I could monitor all the interactions and intervene where necessary and protect my son as much as possible. Now I’m at the point where I just don’t know if I can go through with that. It is taking its toll on me mentally and emotionally and I am permanently drained.

If we were to divorce, I imagine worst case scenario he would get 50% access. I feel it doesn’t matter if I document things, there’s no physical evidence, he’ll just deny it all and so I have to just work with what’s within my control and that is the reality that he will have my son half the time. In the event we divorce, my husband will move back to his parents house and live there and his parents are extremely abusive too (where my husband has evidently learned all this stuff from). His parents hate me because I haven’t been obedient etc, and I just know he and his parents will talk badly about me and treat my son poorly (which is the norm to them). I feel like I am throwing my son to the wolves just to keep myself happy? I read all the time that people say by staying my son will learn an awful lesson about what relationships are like. But by leaving he’s going to be subjected to extremely unhealthy behaviours for all the time he is with them, and should my husband remarry (I am confident he will), my son will just be subjected to that toxic relationship.

I feel physically sick at the thought of everything that will go on whilst my son is not in my care. My husband will allow his parents and extended family to take my son wherever and do whatever and there will be no regard for his safety, and he will learn so much unhealthy, toxic stuff. I can’t understand how on earth it is better for me to divorce my husband than stay for the sake of my son?

Also should I leave I am financially secure and will have a place of my own so that’s not an issue. And I can’t even be bothered to fight him for child maintenance because I know he will fiddle his accounts etc

Get your ducks in a row behind his back now. Then move to Ireland. Different legal system or move absolutely miles away. I mean , northern Scotland. No court will allow 50/50 with such a distance between you. He will get three weekends a month and will quickly lose interest in the massive drive to see your child. The family courts are a pigging nightmare and this strategy is the only one I've seen work well with nasty abusive men. Also such long drives are really disruptive to small children. You can argue that in court. Good luck!

"Strangely my son will spend far more time with my husband if we divorced than he would right now. Should I divorce, am I not just putting my son in the hands of an abusive man potentially 50% of the time, and having him learn how to become an abusive man himself?"

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents, what do YOU want to teach your son about relationships here?. Currently you are showing him that for now anyway his dad's abuse of you is acceptable to you on some level.

Do you really think that such a man would be at all bothered with his son even 20% of the week let alone 50%?. No he will not, he cannot be bothered much with him even now. He would probably only demand 50% as a means of punishing you further, not because he actually wants to see his son. Also men like this can and do use 50% to get out of paying child maintenance claims. Do not let mere supposition and your own fear prevent you from leaving this man, you need facts from a Solicitor and a divorce settlement.

You have a choice re this man, your son does not. Make better choices going forward for both you and your son.

"Can I not protect him far more if I stay?"

No and that is because you cannot even protect yourself fully from his abuse of you particularly as you're still under the same roof.

You need to remember that he will be seriously affected by watching you being abused. The longer he watches you being abused, the more likely he is to act like an abuser himself and choose to be with his father.

Teach him that, although he has to spend time in an abusive relationship, that is not the only way to live. That way he is less likely to grow into an abuser himself.

You're experiencing normal and usual anxiety about these choices that many women have encountered before. Your husband may turn out to be a shit husband but a good father and if he does leave your son with his family on his allotted days that's his choice to make. This decision is about on one hand taking control and on the other relinquishing and for those of us who've been there it feels terrifying however you MUST leave and live an authentic life and the earlier the better. The chances of your husband keeping up 50/50 are small particularly if and when he gets a new partner - at which point you'll be fuming that he's negating the rights he fought you for. We've been there trust us.

@sc4red

Also I always see people say 'the husband will never commit to having the children 50% of the time' but believe me he will, just to spite me. And he will dump my son on his parents and head off out

What are his parents like? Could it be a good thing if he leave him with his parents? I realise you'd rather have him with you but if it is him having him (which sounds terrible) or doting grandparents having him then I'd be happy he's dumping him. Obviously depends on his parents.

Hope you both keep safe.

Ok, my ex was EA and I left. Being in MN was helpful in this I think.

Exh did say he wanted 50/50 but it seemed to be a maintenance avoidance thing and also more that he wanted an option on 50% of the time rather than ever being likely that he would do it.

We went to court on childcare as well as finances (he fought much harder on finances!) and I ended with the kids 9 nights out of 14.

However, there has been a lot of upset when they are at his over the few years we’ve been apart - he lets them down a lot, is very selfish and can behave quite badly towards my Dd in particular. I have a lot of them coming back here part way through contact, swearing they will never go again etc. It’s not easy!

He now has a fiancée who is 8 months + pregnant with his baby so we’ll see how that pans out. She seems quite decent.

It’s good and bad, is what I’m trying to say, but the kids are much better off not seeing me ground down by him.

Ok. I'm trying to figure out how you can dissolve this marriage as lightly as possible, without incurring his wrath, without him wrestling you for custody. A conversation where both of you acknowledge that this isn't working, one where you state that you cannot give him what he wants (if you want, say that your sex drive has just dwindled anyway even if it's not true). A low key, sad sort of tone where you express a desire to split, that you clearly see that he's unhappy and that you both commit to living separate lives whilst co parenting the best you can.

It's basically a conversation on egg shells. If he's possessive, he will probably want you to stick around to be his maid whilst he emotionally abuses and disrespects you, whilst he permits himself to fuck around with whoever he wants. I would speak to a solicitor and Women's Aid though before having that kind of conversation though.

I'd feel the same way as you and I have never come across a satisfactory answer to this question. Unless you supervised access for some reason, there is this dilemma. Lots of downs to staying from his perspective, and some ups to leaving. But still - one is sending the child alone into an environment that one left because it wasn't safe. I have never heard someone speak to what actually happens while the child is in that space, just that it's 'worth it' - and I can't see it.

But I say that as a parent who places enormous value on having eyes on the child in any situation where I'm not 100% comfortable about their safety.

My friends abusive ex was hell bent on 50%. So she played him at his own game 'so twatty stbx how will we do this? Week on week off or fortnightly pattern?' Well that was it! He didn't see why he had to have them so much because she was obviously going to use that time to go shagging! Oh and how would he manage work?
Quite often 50/50 threat is the only weapon they have in their arsenal. You've had the audacity to leave. What else can they threaten you with?

Better 50% in a happy home than none.

Also, if he does take the kid 50% of the time but dumps him on his parents then isnt that a good thing? Unless his parents are abusive assholes too.

I've been where you are an it's an impossible situation, I'm so sorry you're going through it. There should be better protection for women and children experiencing emotional/psychological abuse.

I can't really give you good advice but can describe what's happening with me if it helps. The abuse started a bit later for me, I stuck it out for most of the kids' primary years and left when they youngest was around 10, when I felt they were better equipped to stand up for themselves and choose not to visit him. We split 3.5 years ago, this is some of what's happening:

• He fought for 50/50 and still insists on it 'in principle' even though the kids, now teenagers, choose to spend more time with me. Anything else would cost him $$ and let me 'win', and we can't have that!
• We are still tiptoeing around his feelings.
• He is still emotionally abusing the kids, their contact time frequently goes pear shaped and they return to me for awhile, then he guilts and manipulates them into trying again. They won't hear my opinions or advice about it - they still love their dad and crave his approval, and don't want to 'take sides'.
• He continued to abuse me for years afterwards especially when I started a new relationship - this has only eased off in the last 6-12 months.
• I am far happier and don't regret leaving for a second. I very much regret not leaving earlier.
• My kids love and prefer the safe and calm home I've created for them. They have a very mature insight into relationships and their father's behaviour, they understand what he does is not acceptable.
• They do mimic some of their father's behaviours when under pressure or feeling criticised (this is my biggest regret!).
• I always stood up to ExH in front of my kids when he didn't treat them well, I wanted them to see I was setting boundaries and protecting them. The kids don't remember it that way - they just remember us arguing all the time.

Honestly, there's merit in the suggestion to move far, far away. Good luck with whatever you decide

If you feel he'd insist on 50/50 just to spite you, call his bluff. File for divorce and propose 50/50. Fight for 50/50. No court is going to give anything less than 50% to the mother for an infant, and if you make it clear that you want an absolute fair split you might be able to push him to ask for less to spite you.

I feel physically sick at the thought of everything that will go on whilst my son is not in my care. My husband will allow his parents and extended family to take my son wherever and do whatever and there will be no regard for his safety, and he will learn so much unhealthy, toxic stuff. I can’t understand how on earth it is better for me to divorce my husband than stay for the sake of my son?

He is your son's father - this man is his father. It is too late to change that.

He is not abusive, but he is by no means a perfect father. He is a tosser really.

What is making you sick is an illusion that you can somehow micro-manage the relationship between your son and his father by staying close. You cannot bear that your son and his father will have a relationship outwith your control because you cannot stand your husband and the way he parents. This is a control issue, and it is your issue. The only person it actually benefits is you, even while you imagine it is best for your son.

If you stay together your son and his father will STILL have their own relationship. He will STILL parent him and have an influence because he is your son's FATHER. Your son will wish to LOVE his father whatever you do.

Your son will be 100% of the time in a toxic atmosphere, partly perhaps because of his father, but also because of his mother and father's relationship. 100% non stop, a horrible toxic atmosphere, every day of his childhood. Do not imagine you can hide anything from a child.

You need to let go of trying to control, and accept that if you split, you can at least show your son normal behaviour in your own home. He needs that in order to grow into a responsible, normal adult. He needs somewhere safe, even if it is only for 50% of the time. He needs a stable base. That is the only way he can learn to see his father's behaviour for what it is, if he has something solid to measure it against.

Whatever happens, your son will have to make his own relationship with his father, and you cannot dictate that. It won't be perfect by your standards, but it will be THEIR relationship.

If his father is a tosser, well, then that is what his father is. Many children have substandard fathers and become well-adjusted adults.

If his father is a tosser and yet his mother stayed with him despite that, then your son will always feel angry that his mother didn't stand up for herself and also didn't put him first and get him away from there.

He will love you and he will learn to be a tosser to women that he loves.

He will love you and he will love his father and he also will spend his young life trying to manage the relationship between you and his father, and he will feel RESPONSIBLE and GUILTY for your bad relationship. He will become that sad, sad thing, a Very Well Behaved Polite Little Boy (who hides his anxiety and rage), because he will believe it is his job to make things better. He will learn parent management rather than have a proper childhood.

He will have no 'normal', no reference solid base.

What I mean OP, is that there is a lot more to putting your son first than you can see at the moment.

Hi there. I really feel for you. I just wanted to add, in case it’s any help to you at all, that a friend of mine has a court ordered agreement with his ex, they do have 50/50 with their kids, but if for any reason the parent who has responsibility needs a babysitter (grandparents or whatever) they have to let the other parent know in case the children can stay with them rather than with the alternative childcare - so, if you’re constantly being told by your ex that ‘so and so’ is having the baby during his time, and you’re documenting it, this could help should you readdress the custody split in the future. Good luck - and yes, leave him, who knows, he may even end up being a better dad because of it.

Your baby needs at least one fully attuned, relaxed, responsive, sensitive, gentle parent. Currently they don’t have that because you are in a state of trauma and preoccupation 24/7 around your DH. In this state you cannot give yourself fully over to parenting and meeting your DC needs because you cannot be in two emotional places at once.

Currently your baby is sensing, absorbing and internalising your anxiety and stress - you have v little capacity for joy, calmness and peace - which is what your baby needs to be absorbing from you - even if you are faking it for your child with big smiles they sense you are on edge. This then makes them confused and frightened and insecure and their behaviour and emotional development is compromised.

Worst case 50/50 your child will have contrast - they will know how a safe, secure, consistent, calm and peaceful home feels with a radiant and happy mum to fill them up with positive emotions constantly.

Currently they don’t have any of that and can’t no matter how hard you try to fake it, mask it, tap dance around your DH.

Get some professional support and direction and plan to leave. As others have said they never actually do the 50/50.

You say you fear him having 50% access but then say he will just have his parents watch the child & he won't actually do it himself.

What is wrong with the child's grandparents looking after him?

Where does your family live OP? Would it be possible for you to put some distance between your homes so DS is ‘settled and happy’ living near your ‘family support network’ (note language in anticipation of court) and moving would be ‘disruptive’ 50/50 would therefore be ‘impractical’ etc.

It probably will not be possible for you to stop DS spending time with his father. But you can take steps to make 50/50 less likely to be awarded. These men often use it as a threat and to reduce child maintenance payments. In my experience they also lose interest in seeing the child if it involves making actual effort.

Also you’re assuming he will try to spite you by wanting 50/50

Why do you have to tell him you don’t want that?

Why not fake being overjoyed at having 50/50 & how now you both will have time to parent PLUS both have 2 weekends free a month?

If you act like you want 50/50 maybe he won’t try to push for it out of spite.

Think strategically.

@CodyBurns

Where does your family live OP? Would it be possible for you to put some distance between your homes so DS is ‘settled and happy’ living near your ‘family support network’ (note language in anticipation of court) and moving would be ‘disruptive’ 50/50 would therefore be ‘impractical’ etc.

It probably will not be possible for you to stop DS spending time with his father. But you can take steps to make 50/50 less likely to be awarded. These men often use it as a threat and to reduce child maintenance payments. In my experience they also lose interest in seeing the child if it involves making actual effort.

If Dad finds out this plan beforehand he can stop his child being taken out of his local district by applying to court. Mum can still move but the courts won’t (normally) allow the child to.

gutful the OP says the grandparents are abusive too.

If Dad finds out this plan beforehand he can stop his child being taken out of his local district by applying to court. Mum can still move but the courts won’t (normally) allow the child to.

Yes! Which is why you keep it to yourself OP and just go. I did it. You don’t have to give a warning or let on.

@CodyBurns

If Dad finds out this plan beforehand he can stop his child being taken out of his local district by applying to court. Mum can still move but the courts won’t (normally) allow the child to.

Yes! Which is why you keep it to yourself OP and just go. I did it. You don’t have to give a warning or let on.

I did mean to write that 😂😂

Oh and before you go make sure you leave a note (and photograph it) so he knows you haven’t been kidnapped and doesn’t need to call the police to report you missing. Make sure he knows you don’t feel safe remaining in the environment with your child and give him a few days to calm down before engaging in any type of conversation. If you do meet to discuss practicalities do so with another person. Your local domestic violence service can also help you make a secret plan to leave this man so you don’t have to do it alone. But no early warnings!