Those of you married to a lawyer

[Ancientruins]

Does it ever get better?

He's a lovely man and he earns a good salary but I'm twenty or so years in and the work never stops. I mean never.
Not on holiday. Not during births. Not during house moves.

And although a devoted husband and father who totally gets stuck in when available, that tends to be only two half days at weekends if we are lucky. And then he is so exhausted he either forces himself to join in, falls asleep while we are watching a film, or he looks so wretched I send him to bed to catch up on sleep.

Things are much better when we are on holiday; he becomes so much happier and more relaxed although business calls still creep in here and there. And of course it takes him ten days on either side to fight through the work and then catch up again to even get to the point where he can leave the office for a few days.

It used to work well because I very much like my own company and I have a close and supportive family, but as time goes on, I am starting to wonder what's the point, why do you even need a wife, do you just expect me to sit here and wait until you are available in fifteen years when you are retired? Isn't the point to enjoy the journey along the way? When I ask him this he says "but the reason I am doing this is for you and the DC". What am I supposed to say to that?

It sounds selfish because I know he loves me and relies on me being "around" but I am getting a bit tired of being at the bottom of the priority list which appears to be: work, DC (quite rightly), dog, household necessities, life admin, wife. Except by the time he gets time to focus on me he is so tired his eyes literally glaze over when we speak. I try not to take it personally.

I'm thoroughly fed of him constantly being on his phone, or conversations, meals , evenings being interrupted by calls from clients. When we were first married it was a joke that as soon as we started a conversation , he would rush out of the door to the office, to the airport, to a client meeting. Our teens actually named him "the smoke" because that's all that's left in his trail. The joke is starting to wear a bit thin!

People assume there are monetary compensations but I am lucky enough to have my own source of income so I am not dependent on him for that.

He says he can only do his job now at this level because of all the hours and the expertise he has built up over thirty years. And I know his work is in an important field which he finds incredibly challenging, and intellectually satisfying. But it doesn't leave time for anything else, and as the years go on, there doesn't seem to be any hope that things will change before he retires, if he doesn't drop dead of a heart attack or stroke first.

I miss him

There is so much about this thread that is stressful but this is the hardest part.

I miss him

Bluntly, OP, this is hardest part. He doesn’t miss you, sorry. He probably does feel huge pressure to maintain this role - because he LOVES it.

Please please don’t hang on for seven years. You seem to have yourself sorted financially. Tell him to put you first now. The next seven years are yours and he can go back after that.

(I know you won’t do this OP, you’ve conditioned yourself to come second. But I wish you would)

@Ancientruins

I think that's a bit extreme in our case ElspethFlashman because there is genuine love between DH and me, and as a pp said, he feels trapped and pressured by his responsibility to his clients (stakes very high if he cocks up) but I hear what you are saying.

Oh I didn't mean to imply there isn't love there. I'm sure hes very nice.

But he doesn't seem to need you. He doesn't even seem to need the kids.

And this was very very common in our father's day. But these days men have more choices.

Former MC lawyer here (I have now left law altogether) - I have loads of friends still lawyering and my best friend is married to a MC litigator partner.

Definitely what the others said about it being a choice. But it’s also imo a question of choosing your poison - presumably your DH is extremely well compensated for what he does and part of the deal is that, yes, he does need to be available constantly and at odd times. (As an aside, was gobsmacked by PPs talking about balancing work as a senior corporate lawyer and cleaning /domestics - fgs, use some of your cash to buy that stuff in and outsource!)

I don’t agree with PPs saying “it’s not acceptable that you’re an option only” only because I think you knew this was the deal going into it. This is a fundamental part of who your DH is, you seem clear that you know he loves you and it’s just the way he’s wired. Just because this set up wouldn’t suit others doesn’t mean you can’t find a way of making it work. The question is, what is it that you feel you really need from him, and can he give it to you? Bearing in mind that if the answer to that is “lots of uninterrupted time together” then it will be a “no” and you are looking at divorce.

Good luck!

@Lurcherloves across the general population, yes I suspect I handle stress comparatively well but I am by no means unique, or even unusual: I have been lucky enough to have worked for and with many incredible women who have enormous capacity for activity and the challenges a busy life brings.

I think woman are particularly conditioned to multi task effectively: I’ve rarely sat at a negotiation table with a man who had been up all night because their child has been sick.

Dh left city practice and went in house. Now we have the opposite problem - he doesn’t have enough to do and gets bored and grumpy. He literally does about an hours work a day.

@stealthbanana you seem clear that you know he loves you and it’s just the way he’s wired.

What? Wouldn’t we all love to be ‘wired’ so we can do exactly what we like and have a Support Human picking up the pieces with our families and our life? But we aren’t that selfish.

The OP is actively telling her DH she is unhappy and wants more. And he is ignoring her, hurting his family and putting his own ego above their wants. Plus, stringing her along while her own life passes by.

I feel for you though. Dh missed all primary school events, most parents evenings, all milestones.

I'm a lawyer but not at a magic circle firm and my hours are nothing like your partners. The only comment I wanted to make is that the job has become much harder and the hours much longer since covid and wfh. I can't even explain why it is happening but it is definitely a thing. If I'm not working, I'm worried about work or feeling anxious because I think I should be working. It is partly the hours target and also just a general sense of it being ridiculously busy.

He promised me that he'd love and cherish me. He loves and cherishes his job.

I'm a bit pissed off about that.

Well yes @PersonaNonGarter. And if I really wanted to have a 100% support human I would have married a man who wasn’t career focused. Personally I like to spread the risk of earning money so we are in a dual career household and both make compromises on how we work/what kind of work we do. We all make our choices. My point is that the OP knows her husband is like this and is benefiting from it in many ways too. It’s not as simple as just saying well I’m done.

Of course they need to talk but I am not sure it’s realistic to expect the OPs husband to suddenly change the way he’s wired. You might not like that, but it doesn’t make it any less true.

This thread has been an interesting read, and a good reminder of why I left my role at a city law firm several years ago. I would echo much of what has been said by PPs and I would in particular reiterate that this is a choice - not only a choice to be a city lawyer, but a choice (well a series of everyday choices) to continue to work at this intensity. My experience is that in many cases people don't realise what they are giving up, or that there is an alternative. Every sacrifice is small and easy to justify but in aggregate leads to a life in which work is always prioritised.

I of course don't know the specifics of his situation/client demands but I am going to go against the grain and say that I think a significant improvement would be possible without taking the drastic step of changing job. Key point being that he would have to actually want it and commit to making a change (not clear from your posts whether he does, or whether it is all coming from you). I know a few senior partners who were workaholics and then found out a way to take their foot off the pedal without packing it all in - one after a significant health scare, one after the death of a family member, and one after being sent for some management coaching. They all got better at delegating, less micromangey and better at pushing back at client demands.

However, it is more common for people to decide that they need to change career to find a better work-life balance. That was the decision I ultimately made for myself, for a couple of reasons:

• I found that even the people who had a good work-life balance for a city lawyer still didn't quite have the work-life balance that I wanted for myself (e.g. making it home at a reasonable time 2 nights a week rather than every night). To an extent, long hours will always be the nature of the beast. So worth thinking what would be good enough for you to live with.
• I wanted to be really good at the career I chose. And, in an environment where everyone is so brilliant and the demands are so high, the easiest way to be the best involves working very hard. I knew deep down that it wasn't in my character not to double check my work at 2am, or to say no when I got offered the high profile new deal that would be hugely interesting and fantastic experience (and also ruin my weekends).
• I'm not all that assertive and often felt guilty/stressed about pushing back on demands. I spent a long time trying to change that about myself, and although I'm certainly not a pushover now, it's still not something which comes easily to me. I find it easier to be somewhere where people don't make unreasonable demands so I don't have to turn them down.
• I found the the strong team culture that private practice encourages really contributed to my difficulty in pushing back. Ultimately, someone has to do the work and turning down the work often means that the pressure on your colleagues (who are often friends, because you spend so much time together) increases. It felt shit on the occasions I did say no and someone else had to pick up the slack - like I wasn't a proper team player, and also I just felt guilty relaxing while a friend was stuck in the office. Many people would bitch about the people in the team who didn't 'pull their weight'; in retrospect, they were perhaps just doing a good job at enforcing their boundaries and ultimately 'playing the game' better than us - many of them are still there and have made it into an interesting, well paid career that works alongside their personal life.

Anyway, this has turned into a bit of a ramble. But in summary, if your DH is willing to make a change, I think it is possible. Management coaching might be a good place to start (essentially therapy, but with someone experienced in dealing with people who work in this type of environment - I have a couple of recommendations).

However, whether he is willing to do that is entirely up to him, and I don't think there is much more you can do to influence him. I do agree with PPs that there are a lot of senior lawyers who thrive off the fast pace, the status etc. (and enjoy having an excuse to opt out of the less glamorous aspects of life, because someone will make that run for them in the background and they're so busy and important don't you know) and deep down don't want to make a change. The question for you is whether you are willing to spend any more of your life waiting and having your life come second to/revolve around his work demands.

I feel disloyal and ungrateful writing it down but I have to work out if the positive points above balance out everything else, and seven years, as many of you are saying, is a long time and frankly I'll believe it when I see it. I have to look at this all objectively of course in terms of my own character and contribution and I am certainly no mega spouse or mother or anything, just an average person, with faults like everyone else.

It's hard, my dad had the big job & my mum eventually left him. She said she got sick of putting her needs, wants etc in a box & eventually the box wouldn't shut. Looking at them I believe he did love her & has a lot of respect for her but not enough if that makes sense.

My brother works at a MC law firm but finance & he has been putting a ton of extra hours as its so busy. He often has partners emailing him at 1am but some don't so there's definitely some choice there.

Of course they need to talk but I am not sure it’s realistic to expect the OPs husband to suddenly change the way he’s wired. You might not like that, but it doesn’t make it any less true.

I'm not sure how my dad could have been different. His job was him, not saying it's right but it was.

He promised me that he'd love and cherish me. He loves and cherishes his job. I'm a bit pissed off about that.

I need this embroidered on a cushion somewhere, so I can stop saying it to DH.

not a lawyer, but both of us used to do professions where 60/70hr weeks are the norm, we have now stopped doing it. the reason was mainly the kids plus the realization that the elusive 'enough' will never happen and if it does will only happen once we are old.

It was the mid-life crisis that was the clincher for us - the realization that we're no longer kids and cant be living for the future - because once you're past a certain age the future is essentially old age. Personally, we've opted for a smaller house and shorter hours to pursue our hobbies, see the kids and hang out with each other but we're both on the same page so it's easier for us.

minipie mine says "you realise that most of my colleagues tell their wives that they are playing golf all weekend, when actually they are banging their mistress? I'm not doing that, am I?"

He genuinely can't seen that all of his vows matter. If he was unfaithful I'd have a clear right to divorce him. Divorcing a man who works so hard for the benefit of his family is not as clear cut.

He says I don't need to worry, that he'll be retiring in 7 years and so he can help more with the parenting then. Our youngest is 15...

Really, he left us years ago.

mine says "you realise that most of my colleagues tell their wives that they are playing golf all weekend, when actually they are banging their mistress? I'm not doing that, am I?"

My cousin (dick) who has a big tech job is like this. He thinks that because he doesn't go cycling all weekend or play away it makes up for everything else. Like a you should be grateful thing.

Mine has been saying “two more years” since 2007.

Yes, he also compares himself against the worst fathers/husbands we know (not unfaithful but 1950s throwbacks who have married a wife to match) and thinks he’s doing well.

To be fair, we have seen a lot more of him during covid. One of the few silver linings. I am very worried he will go back to usual form when working in the office is allowed however.

It was the mid-life crisis that was the clincher for us - the realization that we're no longer kids and cant be living for the future - because once you're past a certain age the future is essentially old age. Personally, we've opted for a smaller house and shorter hours to pursue our hobbies, see the kids and hang out with each other but we're both on the same page so it's easier for us.

@oscarmum20 Yes this is where I am - we’ve done lots of “work hard and save for the future”, now we can relax a bit and enjoy life while we are still young enough - but DH isn’t on the same page. I don’t think he’ll feel we have enough until we have 8 figures in the bank...

The other thing to be taken into consideration is that when he is older he will look back and hugely regret the time he did not have with his children. The financial rewards are simply not worth losing that.

Could he work part-time? Would he even consider that?

My OH and I both jumped off the wheel at various points in our careers because we could see that the balance of our lives was out of kilter. We paid a bit of a financial price for it, but that was more than compensated for by having a life - a REAL life, not one dictated by a faceless firm.

Now my OH has died, and I am so glad that he had some better life before that happened. Honestly - accumulating wealth and status is as noting when life dwindles away.

@minipie that must be hard. in our case 've always been more career driven than DH and kept doing it for longer (and I sort of still do but i've reconciled myself that i wont progress much etc) but then I dont really care. The reality is that I don't feel like I have much to prove anymore. I've done the drive, the long hours, the commitment, the cash, etc for a couple of decades but if we'd kept going the same way then realistically what......we would have got to 60 and then had a bit more money but the kids would have left home and honestly maybe we'll still have our health but maybe not.

For me it was getting perimenopausal and kids - which made me realise that am only ever going to be as young as today so i better keep moving and doing stuff i enjoy. But DH never had this physiological realisation - in his head he is still young and possiblities are endless. Whereas am realising that they are slowly closing so I'd better make the most of it.

Not sure how you could persuade your partner to change - it's hard. Money and status are addictive and you do get used to the pace and the money. For us it wasnt worth it if we never saw each other or the kids but then we were also in the same field so could always cut through each others bull and say - you're just putting it on - there is no need for that etc, is that really what matters right now. Plus we always earned more or less the same money so had both the career and financial parity which made it easier to make a joint decision.

nothing

and passed a certain point/age...there is no future....there is only today. it's just a question of whether you both reach that point at the same time

@Ancientruins . Haven't read the whole thread. My 17 year older DS wants to follow in his father's footsteps as he looked at his lawyer father and thought - what career will allow him as much leisure time and flexibility and give a great salary.

So..... it CAN get better. Whether it WILL is up to your DH. My DH is a family man and places great importance in family time and being present for his kids as much as possible. He is a senior partner in a cooperate firm and the main part of his work is to win business. So the nature of the job has changed from the time he was an associate.