Help me navigate this PIL issue

[OrganicCoffeeBeans]

When we arrange to see PIL who live a bit of a distance from us, it's a day trip, so I try and make it an outing. They actually really like this. I also do it because I have 3 DC from teens down and they can't sit around.

So, for example, if there is a castle we want to go to, a historic town we want to visit or a fete (all pre-Covid of course) I will arrange to meet them there. We will do the activity, have a picnic or lunch or get a nice coffee and cake.

Here is the issue. Whenever I do this, the first thing my MIL says is "are you going to invite SIL and her husband?" If I am not straight on it, she gets upset or a bit angry. SIL and her DH are 50+ and have no DC and live a couple of hours away from PIL.

I have invited them in the past but it basically spoils the day. SIL openly doesn't like me and I don't know why she comes. DH and I are not keen on her DH as he is really pretentious. They turn up late, end up influencing what we do and what we eat (it's got to be somewhere posh) and my DC get no time with PIL as they just fuss over SIL and her DH. We are basically taggers on during our own day out. I'm also sure that if I was allowed to sit and talk to MIL on my own and have a nice time, we would have a better relationship. When SIL is there MIL is mindful not to say anything nice to me or pay me any attention. I am having a pop at my SIL but she is really childish.

In the past, I have invited PIL on days out, meals out, weekends away, special occasions at our house, holidays, and every time she insists that SIL and her DH are invited. Of course, I am happy to do it sometimes but I'm sick of doing it all the time. SIL and her DH do loads of activities and days out and weekends away but don't invite PIL to any of them. They have never invited us to anything they do either.

Covid allowing, I'd like to plan some things for the summer holiday and a lot of these take us near to PIL's house. They will get upset if we don't include them and it enables me to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

How can I say to MIL that I don't want to always invite SIL and her DH to everything we do and if they want to do things then they can invite them themselves. MIL will kick-off but it is either this or I stop including PIL. My DH won't say anything as he is too laid back. I know I have a DH problem here too.

Be open. “No, I won’t be inviting them. SIL doesn’t like me and her attitude when I am present ruins my day. The kids and I live the time we get to spend with you and would rather we could relax and not have someone there who patently doesn’t like us. “

Love not live!

"No, not this time"

When she kicks off just ask "if you don't want to spend quality time with just us then you don't have to come."

Perhaps SIL is being pushed into these family outings by MIL if she is such a sour puss when she is there?

Next time tell MIL ‘no’. Or, more politely, ‘actually, MIL, she really hasn’t seemed to enjoy herself on the last few trips so I thought it would be nice if it was just us this time. And that way we can focus a little more on the the children as well. DC is really looking forward to seeing and doing cuz’.

The thing is Jonty, my MIL would get very defensive if I said that as she will never take my side over SIL's even is SIL was blatently in the wrong. Her DD can do no wrong. MIL would go back and tell her and then I would be the bad guy.

Perhaps SIL is being pushed into these family outings by MIL if she is such a sour puss when she is there?

I think SIL doesn't want us all to have a great time together and so comes along to make sure she is not missing out.

Your husband needs to deal with this.

Say...not this time, but I am planning another day out around xxx month and if she's up for it why not.

Of course...the other date doesn't have to materialise.

I realise this suggestion skirts round the issue, but if you start saying stuff like "SIL doesn't like me", although true, it will not help the situation and more likely make things worse.

Considering SIL doesn't like you I'm surprised she comes along.

What events does your partner arrange? Does he get the same reaction from his mother and sister?

Can’t you just say let’s keep it just us this time? We would like to spend some time with you two on this occasion. Make it seem as if you want to enjoy their company. If MiL presses you to ask your SiL just say no they came last time.

And if she continues being pushy...I'd personally cancel the plan to see them.

It sounds like it's more you who initiates and plans...would your DH bother if you didn't?

If it was left to my DH we would never go out. He is also very chilled out and likes to keep the peace.

I have had lots of arguments with my DH about this. I basically arrange nice things, then get pushed out by SIL and MIL. What I really need to do is not invite them and not care, but they are his parents. He thinks it is quite normal to invite your whole family to whatever you do and I don't.
It is not a cultural thing. When I see my parents I don't invite my siblings along. We see them all together sometimes and I see my siblings separately.

The other one is special occasions e.g. Easter. I'll invite PIL and MIL insists I invite SIL/ DH. If they want to spend Easter with PIL then why don't they invite them themselves? I don't think SIL begrudgingly comes. At 50, I think you are old enough to say that sorry, you have other plans.

These are your DH's parents?
He phones his DM, invites them to wherever and when she mentions sil, says "well actually it would be nice to have you to ourselves for a change" and leaves you out of it.

As so often this is a DH problem as much as a Mil problem.

As so often this is a DH problem as much as a Mil problem.

Yes, this is most of the problem. He is too laid back and doesn't like to upset anyone and they take advantage of this. If he then goes back later and says no to something they have actually in the past said to him "that's her (me) talking, not you".

You're going to have to put up with her sulking and just tell her.

Take a deep breath and tell her no to the SIL. If she wants to grump about it, then say maybe it's best we don't come at all.

Well leave it to your DH to arrange then, if he doesn’t then you don’t see them - any of them. It’s not your responsibility to be the family glue especially if you are being pushed out.

Maybe your DH is chilled because he isn't being stressed out by his family requirements.
I would personally consider opting out of arranging events with his side for the time being. If the kids ask then you can refer them to DH for arrangements. If PIL ask you can refer them to him as well.

I'd drop the rope and not bother with them, honestly. This is your husbands family and if he's not bothered, then I wouldn't be. You are tying yourself in knots for people who frankly don't seem to have much care for you or your feelings and perhaps even see you as 'the enemy'. Just let it go....

Stop arranging to see PIL at all and just make arrangements to see your family.

Leave his and the DC relationship with your family to him.

Katherine, it is really interesting that you say that. If I didn't say to my DH have you called your mum? it's X's birthday on this date or when shall we see them, he wouldn't both.

Funnily enough, in the past, I have been accused of keeping him away and being a gatekeeper.

This would be easy for me.

"are you going to invite SIL and her husband?"

"No. So we are planning on getting there at 10am and I thought it would be nice to have lunch at X and blah blah blah".

Say no, move the conversation on.

Or if you wanted to elaborate... "no, I thought it could just be us this time, but if you'd rather give it a miss that's fine, we will still go anyway".

But really, it sounds like you're more bothered about seeing your in-laws than your husband is and I'm wondering why you put yourself through it, given that you do the arranging, you don't enjoy these days out and you frequently argue with your DH about them? I don't know if you're doing it because you're seeking someones approval, or deep down you get something from the conflict with SIL and arguing with your DH, but it's an odd thing for you to continue doing.

Urgh I mean relationship with his family to him.

Actually tell PIL that you aren't organising things anymore and they can speak to DH whenever they want.

You are tying yourself in knots for people who frankly don't seem to have much care for you or your feelings and perhaps even see you as 'the enemy'

This is actually very true. I think I do it because I have a couple of sons and am avoiding bad karma.

In that case, I change my advice. Let DH deal with them. Full stop. No further engagement from you but be nice and polite if and when DH arranges for you to see them.

@OrganicCoffeeBeans

Katherine, it is really interesting that you say that. If I didn't say to my DH have you called your mum? it's X's birthday on this date or when shall we see them, he wouldn't both.

Funnily enough, in the past, I have been accused of keeping him away and being a gatekeeper.

I honestly don't get why you are martyring yourself to these people, they sound kind of awful. Your husbands laidbackness is perhaps a coping mechanism and means of disengaging from the drama as much as a personality trait. As others have said, you need to ask yourself what you are getting out of these tussles and this sniping. Unless you enjoy drama - and let's face it, lots of people do - I'd be disengaging too.