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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Help me navigate this PIL issue

99 replies

OrganicCoffeeBeans · 11/02/2021 08:54

When we arrange to see PIL who live a bit of a distance from us, it's a day trip, so I try and make it an outing. They actually really like this. I also do it because I have 3 DC from teens down and they can't sit around.

So, for example, if there is a castle we want to go to, a historic town we want to visit or a fete (all pre-Covid of course) I will arrange to meet them there. We will do the activity, have a picnic or lunch or get a nice coffee and cake.

Here is the issue. Whenever I do this, the first thing my MIL says is "are you going to invite SIL and her husband?" If I am not straight on it, she gets upset or a bit angry. SIL and her DH are 50+ and have no DC and live a couple of hours away from PIL.

I have invited them in the past but it basically spoils the day. SIL openly doesn't like me and I don't know why she comes. DH and I are not keen on her DH as he is really pretentious. They turn up late, end up influencing what we do and what we eat (it's got to be somewhere posh) and my DC get no time with PIL as they just fuss over SIL and her DH. We are basically taggers on during our own day out. I'm also sure that if I was allowed to sit and talk to MIL on my own and have a nice time, we would have a better relationship. When SIL is there MIL is mindful not to say anything nice to me or pay me any attention. I am having a pop at my SIL but she is really childish.

In the past, I have invited PIL on days out, meals out, weekends away, special occasions at our house, holidays, and every time she insists that SIL and her DH are invited. Of course, I am happy to do it sometimes but I'm sick of doing it all the time. SIL and her DH do loads of activities and days out and weekends away but don't invite PIL to any of them. They have never invited us to anything they do either.

Covid allowing, I'd like to plan some things for the summer holiday and a lot of these take us near to PIL's house. They will get upset if we don't include them and it enables me to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

How can I say to MIL that I don't want to always invite SIL and her DH to everything we do and if they want to do things then they can invite them themselves. MIL will kick-off but it is either this or I stop including PIL. My DH won't say anything as he is too laid back. I know I have a DH problem here too.

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 11/02/2021 10:07

Stop organising things with his family. If he wants to see his family then he can organise it

Nith · 11/02/2021 10:08

Can you be upfront and tell her that SIl clearly dislikes you, you can't see that it's any sort of treat for them? That way you're not taking sides, you're presenting it as one of those things?

Daisydoesnt · 11/02/2021 10:11

OP I can only echo I all the other excellent comments upthread - you really need to drop the rope on this. It is not your responsibility to manage/ foster relationships with your husband’s family. That is up to him. It might not look like what you think it ought to, but it’s his family. Perhaps it pisses him off that he can’t ever see his mum and dad without his sister being invited? It would me.

In fact, I think you’ll find that when you leave it to him (which I sincerely hope you do) that the animosity /tension from the SiL and PiL towards you drops a notch or two. I suspect part of the problem is they resent you for being the one to initiate things, because your Dh isn’t. I know that’s unfair and illogical but we aren’t always fair or logical. Hence the gatekeeper digs.

RantyAnty · 11/02/2021 10:13

Yes, your relationship with your DC will come from how you are with them, not anything else. Spending time with them, listening to them, having a laugh, teaching them things about life, taking an interest in things they like. Things like that matter.

Just one example. My DC remember fondly me teaching them a family pie recipe and we made it together. Visits to odd grumpy relatives...not so much.

theleafandnotthetree · 11/02/2021 10:14

@MadameButterface, not only is your post excellent advice, it is also really made me laugh. I bet you are also doing grand with your kids!

Sarahandco · 11/02/2021 10:19

Is it the case that unless you invite SIL she would not do anything with her Mum? If so that is probably why she asks you to ask her.

Can you arrange to do things that enable you to branch off with kids and still have fun if SIL hijacks it or can you arrange dates when you know SIL won't be available.

Obvioulsy you shouldn't have to do any of this and if you are facilitating PIL seeing their own daughter then you can at least know you are doing a good deed for your PIL but obviously it is not fair on your or your DC.

Googlebrained · 11/02/2021 10:22

'Next time Sil wants to organise something for us all, we'd love to come. This time the kids and I would especially like to have more quality time with you and grandad'

How can she argue with that?

If she does then just pull out. You really haven't lost anything.

TorchesTorches · 11/02/2021 10:26

Your MIL is using you. You are the 'shield' that absorbs all the crap and makes her life better and achieving her desired outcome. She knows you take and tolerate the crap and, crucially, she doesn't care.

Step away from your role here. Others (Mil definitely but others possibly) will scream and shout because you are no longer doing what they want. But they don't care about your feelings.

Stop organising stuff. If it's questioned, say that the new approach is that you are in charge of organising stuff relating your family and DH with his. This is the approach we adopt in our family it has saved me from TONNES of crap. Then just refer them to DH every time family related gatherings or social stuff is questioned.

theleafandnotthetree · 11/02/2021 10:27

@Sarahandco

Is it the case that unless you invite SIL she would not do anything with her Mum? If so that is probably why she asks you to ask her.

Can you arrange to do things that enable you to branch off with kids and still have fun if SIL hijacks it or can you arrange dates when you know SIL won't be available.

Obvioulsy you shouldn't have to do any of this and if you are facilitating PIL seeing their own daughter then you can at least know you are doing a good deed for your PIL but obviously it is not fair on your or your DC.

Far too much tying herself in knots going on with that kind of carry on. Why on earth should the OP be responsible for managing, manipulating, nudging things? Let her husband take this on if he wants to and if he doesn't well then leave it alone. As for doing a good deed for the PIL, doesn't sound like they deserve it frankly. You teach people how to treat you and the OP is giving a great lesson in subservience and people-pleasing
Original poster
OrganicCoffeeBeans · 11/02/2021 10:28

Thx everyone. I think I’m just not going to invite them to things I’m organising. This has come up now as I’m trying to get some fully refundable things in the diary. Last summer we did very little as everything we tried to do was booked up. Going to try and pencil some things in with a refundable deposit or amount.

OP posts:
Morred · 11/02/2021 10:29

Kill two birds with one stone. Say no, you're not inviting SIL this time (it's been so long since we could see any of you we want to spend quality time with you individually) but DH is setting up something separately with his sister.

Then either he does (and you haven't had to organise it or have SIL spoil grandparent time) or he won't (and you don't have to see them and can refer any queries about it to your DH).

Original poster
OrganicCoffeeBeans · 11/02/2021 10:32

Just to add that MIL and SIL spend loads of time together. It is just more SIL sitting on her sofa and taking her mum shopping with her than any nice treats and days out. It’s very much a young child like relationship even though she’s 50. SIL does nothing for her.

OP posts:
ContessaDiPulpo · 11/02/2021 10:40

OP, you seem to think that unless you suffer as a DIL now, you won't be rewarded with attentive DILs in the future.

You do realise that a) there's no guarantee that of attentive DILs in future and b) that your DSs can be encouraged to contact you themselves rather than relying in their wives, right? I have 2 DSs myself and sympathise to an extent, but you're taking it a bit far here.

GreatExpectationalized · 11/02/2021 10:41

If you want to continue to foster a great relationship between your children and their grandparents, and you don’t mind arranging a day for all of them to enjoy, then just send DH and the children off on their precooked day out together and you can enjoy a day on the sofa or shopping yourself for once. Grin

warmandtoasty2day · 11/02/2021 10:45

here is yet another dh without a back bone who wants to keep the peace and lets his partner sort out the difficult stuff -aaaggh !

MadameButterface · 11/02/2021 10:45

OP, you seem to think that unless you suffer as a DIL now, you won't be rewarded with attentive DILs in the future.

Exactly so. “I must do this chore for them so someone else will do this chore for me”

But your dc do not see time with you as a chore, and so neither will their future partners. The groundwork for your dynamic with your dc in the future is laid in the things you do for and with them, not for and with other people.

MadameButterface · 11/02/2021 10:46

@theleafandnotthetree you absolute cutie, thank you, i’m blushing here Grin

Shinyflecks · 11/02/2021 11:08

I have a feeling my sil doesn’t like me.
I’m assuming it’s purely jealousy.
What do you think she doesn’t like about you? I’m interested.
I now make dh do all the communication and if that means plans are not made so be it. Life’s too short. Also how old is your eldest? He/she could start making the plans with his/her grandparents and leave you out of it?

theleafandnotthetree · 11/02/2021 11:29

@OrganicCoffeeBeans

Just to add that MIL and SIL spend loads of time together. It is just more SIL sitting on her sofa and taking her mum shopping with her than any nice treats and days out. It’s very much a young child like relationship even though she’s 50. SIL does nothing for her.
Do you in some strange way feel you have to make up for the deficits in their relationship and create opportunities for them to 'make memories'? I know that sounds bonkers but I think there's a hint of that. OP you remind me a little of a friend of mine who while extremely kind, well-intentioned etc has a bit of a habit of acting as 'fixer' and of inserting herself into family dynamics that really aren't her concern. It's hard to criticise her because well, she IS so good and is always the one who hosts everyone and organises everything and ties herself in knots but I think this slightly martyr-ish thing is very much part of her identity and she does in fact get something out of it in feeling 'well if I didn't do it nobody would'. To which my answer would be, so what? I see it even in you thinking in some way that you can control what happens with your children when they grow up and form attachments, you're already deciding exactly how you want that to be. But they might live on the other side of the world, be single (imagine!) or have partners who have no interest in extended family days out and that would be their choice. As someone who has gone through a seperation, you realise that all those could, shoulds, etc are really social constructs in a way and can be gone overnight. I think if you invest too deeply in people responding to and acting within a family framework you consider to be optimal, you are bound to be disappointed.
Worried830410 · 11/02/2021 11:34

I really can't understand why you are so desperate to please these people when your dh doesn't care. So just don't invite them,and stop running around making arrangements after them. If he doesn't phone them, sort out gifts, and arrangements then that's his problem.
You really need to get into that mindset. Here you are running around worrying about people, who openly don't like you. Your mil doesn't like you if she wears two faces around you and sil. Ask yourself why, just why are you doing this to yourself.

Chicchicchicchiclana · 11/02/2021 11:35

@OrganicCoffeeBeans

The thing is Jonty, my MIL would get very defensive if I said that as she will never take my side over SIL's even is SIL was blatently in the wrong. Her DD can do no wrong. MIL would go back and tell her and then I would be the bad guy.
If you don't say anything nothing's going to change. Are you expecting MN to pull a rabbit out of a hat?
theleafandnotthetree · 11/02/2021 11:39

And you do sound lovely and I'm sure are lovely but to these people who clearly aren't very lovely, you may be coming across as a bit of goody goody two shoes/eager beaver type which might be annoying. I think if you did less, cared less and suited yourself more ye might all actually get on better

HollowTalk · 11/02/2021 11:46

The thing is that you are showing your children that it's okay to martyr yourself and not stand up for yourself, and it's okay for relatives to treat you badly.

How you are with your own children will determine your relationship with the women they marry. Keep putting everything into that relationship with your boys and you'll be fine.

And karma doesn't exist!

SingingLoud · 11/02/2021 11:54

Just to add that MIL and SIL spend loads of time together. It is just more SIL sitting on her sofa and taking her mum shopping with her than any nice treats and days out. It’s very much a young child like relationship even though she’s 50. SIL does nothing for her.

You’re never going to be the daughter that you clearly think your SIL should be. So stop trying.

DemandTheBest · 11/02/2021 11:58

@HollowTalk

The thing is that you are showing your children that it's okay to martyr yourself and not stand up for yourself, and it's okay for relatives to treat you badly.

How you are with your own children will determine your relationship with the women they marry. Keep putting everything into that relationship with your boys and you'll be fine.

And karma doesn't exist!

@ HollowTalk, regarding karma, I hope you never need to find out otherwise, and I mean that sincerely.