Should I tell her they call her the Bunny Boiler?

[IsIgnoranceBliss]

Long story, short - should I tell a friend that others don’t trust her and are calling her a “bunny boiler” because of her behaviour around married men? Or should I keep out of her business?

I’ve name changed for this, in case the people concerned recognise themselves, even though their names and some details have been changed.

There is a woman, Anna, that I used to work with until about a year ago. We were work friends and have kept in contact throughout the lockdown, with weekly phone catch-ups - largely for company during the lockdown, not because we are especially close although I enjoy her company. Anna is early-forties, long-term single but want to meet someone and ideally have a child. She has shared stories with me about her online dating exploits and about various men she has been keen on. She is very keen on a man called Tom, who she said is in an unhappy marriage, but she thinks he will be leaving his wife and has hopes for a relationship with him. I told her that I believe she should wait until he is formally separated before trying to start anything, but it is clear that she has very strong feelings for him and she is trying to get closer to him, which I don’t approve of.

I had a catch-up with another friend, Barbara, who happens to know Anna though a volunteering activity (which is allowed to continue through the pandemic). I mentioned that I was having regular calls with Anna, and Barbara referred to her as “the bunny boiler”. From Barbara’s point of view (and apparently of some of the other women in the group), Anna has had intense obsessions about a few married men in the group, has a tendency to play the “damsel in distress” with men to get their attention and can be too touchy freely with some of them (less so since social distancing came in). To be honest, I have seen Anna behave in a similar way when we worked together and can see how it might look for a single woman to behave the way she does with men - but can also see that it could be viewed as Anna just being friendly. Barbara says that some of the wives exclude Anna from some activities (pre-Covid) as her behaviour makes them uncomfortable and they think she is desperate for a man and seems to even prefer men who are already in relationships.

Tom is in the same volunteer group and Barbara said Anna was embarrassing herself and Tom with her behaviour around him. This included regularly asking Tom out for drinks (outside of lockdown) without his wife, with the excuse of a shared interest in football, confiding in him about her relationship issues, and messaging him a lot. Anna has told me she has done this and doesn’t see a problem with it because they are friends. Barbara believes that Tom is happily married and Anna is just obsessed with him.

Barbara also said that Anna’s behaviour around Tom, the other men she has been infatuated with and generally the men in the group, mean that she is not trusted. Anna is now self-employed in a role where trust is important (something like counselling) so not being seen as trustworthy could affect Anna professionally.

Do I say anything to Anna? It isn’t my business and also I don’t want to hurt her, but I am worried that her personal and professional reputation will be damaged if she’s not careful and feel I should she should know.

Sorry that was long.

@ColdInTheUtility

I thought that was clear from the first post, but I recognise that it is not clear to every reader.

It was perfectly clear what perspective you were asking from. It's just that there are plenty of people on here who will be deliberately obtuse if you are seen to be being critical of a woman where cheating men are concerned.

In the case of my 'Anna', I made many predictions as to how the situation would play out (based on my many years of mumsnet experience) and I was right about every single one of them.

Thank you - that helps. I find it difficult to recognise when people are being deliberately obtuse.

Additionally, I find it difficult when people seem to find information or opinions in a post that isn’t there. I find it helpful when others point out that the poster is projecting from their own experiences.

I don't know if this has been said. But I remember having almost a similar quandary and I spoke about it to a friend who works as a counsellor. She kind of asked me why I felt to rescue people from situations, she asked what I was getting out of it. And she also made the point that every time we save someone from something that they are able to make their own decisions about we are stopping opportunities for them to decide how to live their own life, and it's almost trying to control the situation and others behaviour.

Decide for yourself what you want from your friend. If it's friendship without talking about relationships with married men, then tell her that.

Good luck.

@Vallmo47

I’m a bit torn on this to be honest, OP. I do appreciate that you’ve been given good advice on this thread, but if this was a very close friend of mine I would actually tell her. I don’t want people talking shit about my friend and I don’t want my friend to be wasting her time being kind to people who are mean about her. I liked the idea of the poster who suggested only telling her if she’s noticed for herself that she gets treated differently, because that insinuates she’s not aware of her behaviour causing any problems.

I agree with you. Having spoken to Anna weekly, she has talked about not having other people to talk to so I am worried that she doesn’t seem to have a close friend available at the moment that could say something to her.

I recognise from here that I am not close enough to her to say something, though.

Depends how close you are to her.

If this was my best friend who I’ve known for 32 years I’d say ‘ WTF are you doing your embarrassing yourself’

If it was a superficial friendship and Anna brought up her conquest to steal the married man I’d probably say ‘Dont tell me anymore I don’t like stuff like that’

Some people just have to crash and burn

Anna is early-forties, long-term single but want to meet someone and ideally have a child

I think you should be advising Anna to forget about guys for the moment and think seriously that if she wants a child she needs to be looking at going down the sperm donor route.
Even if Tom left his wife and set up home with her it would be solely for the purpose of having a good time and not to go straight into sleepless nights and nappies if you see what I mean. She is too old to wait if she wants to have a child. She needs to get her backside in gear and stop chasing a fantasy.

@Gina67844

I don't know if this has been said. But I remember having almost a similar quandary and I spoke about it to a friend who works as a counsellor. She kind of asked me why I felt to rescue people from situations, she asked what I was getting out of it. And she also made the point that every time we save someone from something that they are able to make their own decisions about we are stopping opportunities for them to decide how to live their own life, and it's almost trying to control the situation and others behaviour.

Decide for yourself what you want from your friend. If it's friendship without talking about relationships with married men, then tell her that.

Good luck.

Thank you - this is incredibly helpful and I’ll be thinking about this a lot.

I see sharing information as not trying to control a situation, but giving people the knowledge to make informed choices. I can see that others might see that as interfering.

@Bythemillpond

Anna is early-forties, long-term single but want to meet someone and ideally have a child

I think you should be advising Anna to forget about guys for the moment and think seriously that if she wants a child she needs to be looking at going down the sperm donor route.
Even if Tom left his wife and set up home with her it would be solely for the purpose of having a good time and not to go straight into sleepless nights and nappies if you see what I mean. She is too old to wait if she wants to have a child. She needs to get her backside in gear and stop chasing a fantasy.

I’m sure she must know this already. I personally would welcome a plain speaking friend saying that it is a valid choice. But having read the comments on this thread, I don’t think it’s my place.

Jings
if I were you, I'd also approach telling her this from your own experience of being autistic and not getting social cues. Try mentioning that she may be missing some cues from people in terms of boundaries.

This is helpful, thank you. Anna is aware of my autism as I’ve asked her opinion on interactions with other people in the past. If she does ask me anything directly, I can use the “missing social cues” aspect.

Gaijinetal
You could even bring in a fictitious situation in which you saw this play out before with another woman; guy never left his wife, woman was labelled bunny booked and gossiped about, it affected her work/business. Just make someone up.

This would be a great idea if I wan’t completely useless at making stuff up!

Thank you everyone for your comments. They have been helpful and thought-provoking about this situation and friendship in general. Also thank you to those who have kindly clarified the intent of some of the posters who seemed to misunderstand the original post.

I will not be raising the matter with Anna. I will be shutting her down when she talks about married men and other things I don’t approve of. And if she asks directly about the way the women at the volunteer group treat her, I will ask her if she thinks she is missing some social cues.

Thank you all again!

Anna is early-forties, long-term single but want to meet someone and ideally have a child

“I think you should be advising Anna to forget about guys for the moment and think seriously that if she wants a child she needs to be looking at going down the sperm donor route.
Even if Tom left his wife and set up home with her it would be solely for the purpose of having a good time and not to go straight into sleepless nights and nappies if you see what I mean. She is too old to wait if she wants to have a child. She needs to get her backside in gear and stop chasing a fantasy”

I’m sure she must know this already

I have met a couple of women who didn’t and it comes as a huge shock when they realise the time for children is over.

Anna sounds like a nightmare but it’s a shame people think her friends shouldn’t tell her so she can leave the situation with some dignity.

I had my regular catch up with Anna today. When she started to talk about Tom I told her I wasn’t happy to listen to it. She got upset and said she had no one else to talk to about it and mentioned that she didn’t get on with the women at the volunteering activity and she didn’t want to talk to the other men about Tom.

I used the helpful phrases on here about asking her if she thought she was missing social cues. She said she couldn’t be because no one has ever said anything to her about it. I couldn’t show her this thread to explain why people wouldn’t say anything so I might have to start another one about things your friends won’t tell you.

Thanks again to everyone who posted their wise words on this thread. It helped a lot.

If it is ok to link to another thread, I have started a more general one about things you wouldn’t tell your friends

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4158524-Things-your-friends-won-t-tell-you

Remember that if you show her the new thread and she was to search the username, this one would come up too and as it's so identifying she would know it's about her. Just in case you didn't realise

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Remember that if you show her the new thread and she was to search the username, this one would come up too and as it's so identifying she would know it's about her. Just in case you didn't realise

Thank you - I hadn’t thought about that. The other thread has had some very useful comments for me anyway.

After speaking to her yesterday, I’m thinking about telling her to put her own post on Mumsnet to get some honest advice from people she doesn’t know.

Sounds too much drama and I’d just detach from the whole situation and let it play out how it will.

I have ASD and I often have found similar dynamics confusing and hurtful -

but as a rule of thumb now I think just keeping my head down and keeping social acquaintances light and compartmentalised is the way forward!

I also have fixing/overanalysing tendencies and still recognise them in me to a certain extent, but I think I was using romantic dramas that had nothing to do with me to avoid being emotionally present in my own life!

There is a certain type of person who likes emotionally offloading/brain dumping onto others

then walks away as “light as air” whilst the other person is left worrying and trying to problem-solve for them!

Friendship arguments like this are often like why people say to be cautious about getting involved in Street arguments - you try intervening then both parties turn on YOU.

I’d just be busy to everyone in this situation. Have a headache for three months or something

Depends. Do you want to know that people call you "the gossip"? Because that is what you are.

Keep out of it. And stop discussing her with other people. You're not friend to her, that's for sure.

@SleepyBunk

Sounds too much drama and I’d just detach from the whole situation and let it play out how it will.

I have ASD and I often have found similar dynamics confusing and hurtful -

but as a rule of thumb now I think just keeping my head down and keeping social acquaintances light and compartmentalised is the way forward!

I also have fixing/overanalysing tendencies and still recognise them in me to a certain extent, but I think I was using romantic dramas that had nothing to do with me to avoid being emotionally present in my own life!

There is a certain type of person who likes emotionally offloading/brain dumping onto others

then walks away as “light as air” whilst the other person is left worrying and trying to problem-solve for them!

Friendship arguments like this are often like why people say to be cautious about getting involved in Street arguments - you try intervening then both parties turn on YOU.

I’d just be busy to everyone in this situation. Have a headache for three months or something

Thank you sleepy - one person emotionally offloading leaving the other one worrying and try to problem-solve is so true! I seem to attract people that do that.

@HelloThereMeHearties

Depends. Do you want to know that people call you "the gossip"? Because that is what you are.

Keep out of it. And stop discussing her with other people. You're not friend to her, that's for sure.

Thank you for your opinion.

Hi OP I've replied to the other thread.. and then found this one :grin:
From my personal experience (with an autistic BF and several similar friends as mentioned on the other thread) autistic people are problem solvers and very caring. This means that they get anxious if they see someone they care about potentially getting hurt and try to fix it.

However - you cannot fix someone who does not want to be fixed.

You're seeing things through your OWN lens. Where if you did something socially unacceptable you would want to be told , because you are genuinely unsure.

However most people are 100% aware of the morality and impact of what they are doing, whether they claim otherwise or not. They lie to themselves and to other people to justify it. They carry on regardless of the impact and don't appreciate you telling them what they already know. Sooner or later they will face the consequences. Unless you are some sort of authority figure or very close to the person (i.e. childhood friend of 10 years etc) or they have done the same for you - it is best to leave people to themselves. Just remember that it is not your fault when stuff happens :) you are a good friend

I wouldn't say 'bunny boiler.' You could tell her how some other women feel (without naming names) as that might mean she changes what she's doing and has closer friendships etc, which presumably would be nice for her.

Anna is now self-employed in a role where trust is important (something like counselling) so not being seen as trustworthy could affect Anna professionally.

Unless she's charged with a crime or something, what she does unless it's with a client or against some rules where she works won't effect her professional life.

I know, sadly, because my ex is a therapist (not mine) and the above is the policy of the BACP, they don't deal with 'personal matters.'

You cannot fix someone who does not want to be fixed.

^This. It's Anna's problem to solve not yours.

@HelloThereMeHearties

Depends. Do you want to know that people call you "the gossip"? Because that is what you are.

Keep out of it. And stop discussing her with other people. You're not friend to her, that's for sure.

Exactly. This faux caring is nauseating. You come across as being extremely judgemental and certainly no kind of friend. Anna will be better off without the likes of you and Barbara.

changing thank you for your comment.

Could cheese or one of the other kind poster who are familiar with autistic traits help me understand how changing’s comment is not seen as judgmental but my concern which is real and not “faux” for my friend is? Or does changing have double standards?