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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He doesn't see the problem

99 replies

Angryandhurt · 29/01/2021 09:27

I have a situation that's been going on for a few years and yesterday it came to a head. My husband has a female friend and I am very unhappy with it due to certain behaviours from him around this friendship. I must stress that normally I am not an insecure or jealous person and never have been before but something in my gut tells me that this is something different. I do not believe he is cheating on me but after speaking with his business partner when I first felt uneasy about it, found out that they are quite flirty with each other. She works for the business next door so pops into his business. It all started as he was going to change his day off to take our son out with her and her son and as we both used to have the same day off, this would've meant not having a family day together. There were a couple of other instances where he went out of his way to do something for her. I told him I was uncomfortable with him doing that as if I ask him to do something it's normally met with a grumble. They would message each other maybe asking how each other was, he let her park at his business as where she works has no staff parking (space that is needed for his own customers). I told him all of this made me very uneasy and asked him to stop. Thought he had but then found he was deleting messages as he didn't want the "3rd degree", so we argued about it, thought he had listened and then found he had just changed her name in his phone. I'd asked him to take her off social media and then a few months later found he's added her back on, said she had requested him which was a lie - he had actively sought her out to add her. His excuse was as it was all months ago (at that time) so he thought it was ok. I told him he had to choose between his friendship with her and me. He left for the weekend but said it was because "I had changed since the birth of our son" which is a cop out to me. We worked things out and he came back home but the issue of them messaging has come up a few times since and he's never really stopped but the latest was a couple of days ago and I know that he normally deletes the messages between them. He doesn't feel that he has done anything wrong but I feel so disrespected by it. I know he hasn't cheated on me with her but why can he not see why I have a problem with it? I have no problem with any other female friends he has, just this one in particular due to his behaviour towards her. If he's deleting messages, surely he must know it's not on? He says he does it to stop me giving him grief over it but surely the answer is to simply not do it to begin with?

OP posts:
OneForTheJourney · 29/01/2021 10:00

All sounds very odd. Have you met this women? Have you asked her what the situation is?

Angryandhurt · 29/01/2021 10:36

I have met her several times if she happens to be at his business when I've been there and on a night out between his company and the company she works for. I've not asked her the situation as part of me feels like I'm blowing it out of proportion, afterall having a friend of the opposite sex is fine, so don't want to embarass myself sounding like a crazy person. It's just his behaviour in refusing to acknowledge how it makes me feel and not seeing why I have a problem with it. I hate feeling like this, I'm not an insecure person but there is just something I can't quite put my finger on, something in my gut that tells me this is something I need to put a stop to. If he loved me then surely he would respect what I've asked? Not try and hide the messages by deleting them. It's that kind of behaviour and his refusal to stop social contact with her that leaves me feeling uneasy but on the flip side, there's nothing sexual in the messages to mean I should be worried. One example is he sent her a video meme thing and said "not sure why I thought of you when I saw this". The latest lot involve a sad incident that happened recently. She messaged him to see how he was early the next morning. There was no indication that he'd messaged her to tell her about it. When I asked how she knew he said she'd messaged him about something while he was dealing with said incident and he'd replied to let her know and he'd deleted all of the messages relating to it as he "couldn't deal with her at that time" but apparently early in the morning the next day was fine as he hadn't deleted them. I feel like I'm going crazy and not sure what to believe. We've been together for over 20 years and I've never had reason to feel like this.

OP posts:
seensome · 29/01/2021 10:54

I can see why, he seems very close to her and having a family day out with her, without you, was you not invited?
Trust your gut it's telling you something is not right.
I had a similar thing in my marriage so understand how disrespected you feel, happy and divorced from him now.

Scattyhattie · 29/01/2021 10:56

Permanently changing days off to spend time with her & son rather than his own family is weird & shitty. Booking the odd day off to do something particular would be more normal but then he'd also have no issue you joining too.

I wouldn't take too kindly to being told who I can/can't contact, however I would respect partners feelings and offer to be open with messages or involve them to try reassure them of the friendship. I wouldn't delete messages then gaslight partner that its all their own fault when caught out, that's something cheaters do.

Angryandhurt · 29/01/2021 11:28

@seensome no plans to invite me originally as I would've been working. He said he wanted to take our son back to a place we'd been before and I said I'd maybe try and get the day off to join (no mention of her going at first) it was when I asked why he needed go change his day off as we could all go together on my day off, that it came about that the day he wanted to change to was her day off so wanted to go with her and her child. Her name had been coming up more frequently in conversation and it just set an alarm off in my head.

@Scattyhattie was only going to be a one off change not permanent. I'd never normally tell him who he could/couldn't speak to. All I'd asked was that he not message her uncessarily after I found out he'd gone out of his way for her on a couple of things that he wouldn't for anyone else. For instance, he's a mechanic and had her car in for work that they didn't get finished that day, so he took her to collect her son from nursery that evening and got up early the next morning to get her and her son to take her child to nursery before taking our son to PIL for childcare. It's things like that which led me to asking him to stop messaging her. He used to moan about having to run around doing the childcare run in the morning as it was 20 minutes in the opposite direction of his work. She lives near his work so he had to drive almost to work, then 20 mins back to where her son went to nursery, then onto to his parents and then back to work again. He wouldn't do that for any other customer, so again another alarm in my head. Still he cannot seem to stop messaging her and trying to hide it.

OP posts:
seensome · 29/01/2021 11:59

It doesn't seem right, he's putting her first, choosing to spend his day off with her instead of you, deleting messages, why do that if nothing to hide, leaving you then coming back home, I don't like the sound of this and he's not listening to you when you say you are uncomfortable with it.

In a friendship you wouldn't hide messages, spouses still come first with days out. He's going above and beyond to sort her childcare out, it's too much, I hate to say affair but it does seem in the least an emotional one and she's taking top spot.

PearsandPartridge · 29/01/2021 12:16

Sorry OP but I honestly think he does see the problem, hence he is deleting the messages and he knows he'd be getting the 3rd degree rightfully! If there was nothing going on (emotional and/or physical) he'd have no problem letting this "friendship" go. I mean he'd see that his DW is struggling with this (for whatever reason!!) and is clearly uncomfortable so what possible reason would he have to ignore your discomfort in pursuit of this friendship?

Just out of curiosity, Is this lady a single parent of does she have a partner?

Angryandhurt · 29/01/2021 12:39

@PearsandPartridge when all of this first started she was a single parent and as far as I know she still is.
You're probably going to think I'm ridiculous for putting up with it for so long but this has been an on/off problem for 6 years in which time we've had another (much loved) child due to carelessness after a night out. Everytime I think we've got past it, I find something else. Given the length of time, is this friendship just something I have to accept if I want my marriage to survive?

OP posts:
forumdonkey · 29/01/2021 12:54

He's completely disrespecting you and disregarding your feelings. Tbh I do think they're having an affair. Of course there's not going to be any incriminating messages because they know you see them

MizMoonshine · 29/01/2021 12:54

He's cheating.

He might not have put his dick in her yet but he's cheating on you.

Catcuriosity · 29/01/2021 12:56

They are definitely having an affair
Whether it is physical or emotional is largely irrelevant- she is first in his world and you are an annoyance to him when he wants to focus on her

MajorMujer · 29/01/2021 13:00

Mentionitis is never a good sign op.

mummyof4kids · 29/01/2021 13:01

Deleting messages is a HUGE red flag!
There's a saying that cheating isn't always physical, if you're deleting messages so your partner doesn't see then you're already there

PearsandPartridge · 29/01/2021 13:04

OP you are NOT being ridiculous. Understandably you are trying to reason it in order to save your marriage and your sanity!! Marriage is complex and so is keeping it happy and alive for decades and for most of us it's not as simple of "leave his sorry ass this minute" or "forgive everything". Respect however is the foundation of most happy marriages IMO. What I personally would want to understand moving forward is why is this friendship so important and what is it that he gets out of it that is so bloody extraordinary that he'd happily put up with seeing you upset over.

Also OP, for your sake, would this lady not have interest in being friends with the whole family? Most importantly you? Why won't he organise time for all your DCs and the family to hang out? Yes of course I get that husbands and wives can have different circle of friends but they are normally drinking buddies down the pub or old uni friends and not ones you have in secret and delete messages from. Or am I too old fashioned??

And again OP, you are not being ridiculous, only you know your marriage and what you can / can't put up with. Smile

Onthedunes · 29/01/2021 13:06

You have every right to be angry.

Get angry!

You are starting to feel like an intruder in your own marriage, how wonderful for her to get her knight in shinning armour and for him to get his ego stroked.

Stop participating in this horrible situation, six years you have been gaslighted your mental health must be on the floor.
Anything you do for him to make his life run smoothly. stop.

Stop, cleaning, cooking washing , ironing, stop helping him with his buisness.
Just stop.
Expect things to turn nasty , it sounds as though he's got used to having his own way.

MrsVogon · 29/01/2021 13:09

The instant defensiveness is the big indicator here. He knows you are on to him. Changing his day off to coordinate with her, rather than you??

He is prioritising her over you and that speaks volumes.

The shit about you changing since the birth of your child...this is the gaslighting to validate why he has formed a relationship with this woman.

His loyality is to her, not you.

PearsandPartridge · 29/01/2021 13:32

Given the length of time, is this friendship just something I have to accept if I want my marriage to survive?

There's absolutely nothing you HAVE TO accept. Especially when it's quite unacceptable. And you should never have to settle either. I honestly think you know deep down that there's something really wrong about this "situation" and as the PP said, you are rightfully angry!

I really do feel for you though and really didn't want to jump down your throat in my earlier message.

EarthSight · 29/01/2021 13:40

It sounds to me like there might be something going on and you are being gaslit :(

No one wants to be a green eyed monster, but the consequence of that desire to be nice and accommodating is that they can spends months, years being in an unfaithful relationship and being gaslit and made to feel crazy the whole time.

It all started as he was going to change his day off to take our son out with her and her son and as we both used to have the same day off, this would've meant not having a family day together

If he permanently sacraficed his say with you, that's not on. Ok, maybe he'll say he has the right to have friendships (even with single women) - fair enough. But you also have the right to choose what kind of relationship you want,

rwalker · 29/01/2021 13:48

TBH I can see this from his point of view to he swapped 1 day basically a playdate for kids would you of been bothered if it was a man.
I to would delete messages to avoid interigation .

You won't get balanced response on her as generally some of MN think a man can't go to the shop for a pint of milk without shagging someone on the way.

NoraSolo · 29/01/2021 14:48

He is deciving you, makes excuses, doesn't acknowledges your felings at all... Being selfish all way around.... I'm sorry seems like he just wants to carry on like this... I made a post just today, my situation is different but I have been deceived by my partner's actions and secrecy as well... It's him hiding things from me because potentially he knows that he made somthing that would make him feel guilty. Same as you, I had no problem with any of his friends of opposite sex but just with her. My gut feeling was right... liaten to it. Good luck.

Angryandhurt · 29/01/2021 15:35

@rwalker

TBH I can see this from his point of view to he swapped 1 day basically a playdate for kids would you of been bothered if it was a man. I to would delete messages to avoid interigation .

You won't get balanced response on her as generally some of MN think a man can't go to the shop for a pint of milk without shagging someone on the way.

I appreciate all perpectives. I think I would still have a problem with him sacrificing our family day together, even if it was a man, as I wouldn't have changed my day off to have a day out with a friend and child/ren (male or female). If it was his day off anyway and I was working then that would be different but it wasn't. In saying that I don't think he would've suggested it if it was a man. My issue is not that she is female, it is his behaviour in regards to her. I've never had this feeling about any of his other female friends. If your partner told you that they were uncomfortable with your level of friendship with someone and asked you to not message someone (for reasons they felt were justified based on the examples I've given) then you would carry on and delete the messages?

@PearsandPartridge thank you, although I feel ridiculous putting up with this for so long. I've been with him over half my life and have no issues in going it alone if I have to, so I don't understand why I have. If a friend of mine were in my shoes I'd be shaking them to wake up. I guess it's not as easy when you're actually in that position Sad

OP posts:
Onthedunes · 29/01/2021 15:41

op, it is telling the post you responded to was one which you felt you had to defend yourself.

Don't waste any further time defending your viewpoint, especially with your husband.
Your view is correct.

Angryandhurt · 29/01/2021 15:51

@Onthedunes

op, it is telling the post you responded to was one which you felt you had to defend yourself.

Don't waste any further time defending your viewpoint, especially with your husband.
Your view is correct.

Do you know what, you are so right! I've spent years questioning whether I am over reacting to this, when I know I'm not at all. I don't deserve to be treated this way by someone who is supposed to love me. Thank you Flowers
OP posts:
Wanderlusto · 29/01/2021 16:02

His treatment of you is not ok either way. But if I were you I would ask her outright (either in person or via phone because messaging gives her tine to confer with him) wtf is going on.

Just approach it in a 'I'm not happy as I found my partner has been deleting messages sent to you. In not sure why my husband is messaging you something he feels is so inappropriate he would have to delete it. So woman to woman, is there something I need to know?'.

That way you are clear that he is married and that you two are still an item (not just 'staying together for the kids' which he may be saying.

Itstimetoquit · 29/01/2021 16:15

He's putting her first what the hell! I'm sorry but he should stop contact,he knows it upsets you,that's awful x