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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

He doesn't see the problem

99 replies

Angryandhurt · 29/01/2021 09:27

I have a situation that's been going on for a few years and yesterday it came to a head. My husband has a female friend and I am very unhappy with it due to certain behaviours from him around this friendship. I must stress that normally I am not an insecure or jealous person and never have been before but something in my gut tells me that this is something different. I do not believe he is cheating on me but after speaking with his business partner when I first felt uneasy about it, found out that they are quite flirty with each other. She works for the business next door so pops into his business. It all started as he was going to change his day off to take our son out with her and her son and as we both used to have the same day off, this would've meant not having a family day together. There were a couple of other instances where he went out of his way to do something for her. I told him I was uncomfortable with him doing that as if I ask him to do something it's normally met with a grumble. They would message each other maybe asking how each other was, he let her park at his business as where she works has no staff parking (space that is needed for his own customers). I told him all of this made me very uneasy and asked him to stop. Thought he had but then found he was deleting messages as he didn't want the "3rd degree", so we argued about it, thought he had listened and then found he had just changed her name in his phone. I'd asked him to take her off social media and then a few months later found he's added her back on, said she had requested him which was a lie - he had actively sought her out to add her. His excuse was as it was all months ago (at that time) so he thought it was ok. I told him he had to choose between his friendship with her and me. He left for the weekend but said it was because "I had changed since the birth of our son" which is a cop out to me. We worked things out and he came back home but the issue of them messaging has come up a few times since and he's never really stopped but the latest was a couple of days ago and I know that he normally deletes the messages between them. He doesn't feel that he has done anything wrong but I feel so disrespected by it. I know he hasn't cheated on me with her but why can he not see why I have a problem with it? I have no problem with any other female friends he has, just this one in particular due to his behaviour towards her. If he's deleting messages, surely he must know it's not on? He says he does it to stop me giving him grief over it but surely the answer is to simply not do it to begin with?

OP posts:
SummerBlondey · 30/01/2021 10:41

I hear what you're saying, maybe I shouldn't count on the friends but my best friend absolutely would tell me if she knew and if she found out her husband knew and didn't tell her, she would rip him a new one

I'm sorry to say that you don't really know this. When my first H was shagging about, EVERY single one of my friends knew and no one told me. In the end one of his male friends told me, but only because my H had been trying it on with his wife. Not only this, but when I divorced him, they all stayed friends with him, and are still friendly to this day.

The "boys" all covered for him too, and he covered for them, as many of them were also having fun on the side.

People can and will disappoint you, make no mistake.

Onthedunes · 30/01/2021 11:21

Look into him moving premesis for his buisness if he's serious.

Don't be ashamed to let others know about this clingy yummy mummy.
And don't let him shame you into putting up with crap.

So many women are shamed into 'behaving' and putting up with shite in the name of keeping up appearances.

Be strong, assertive and unapologetic if you are controlled by humiliation.

category12 · 30/01/2021 11:23

Have you asked your friend if she thinks/knows he's having an affair?

PicsInRed · 30/01/2021 11:29

If his business partner was willing to tell the wife there is "flirting", there's almost certainly more.

Friends of a cheat are very reluctant to get involved unless it's egregious. I'd say he's already opening cheating with this woman (an out in the open 2nd relationship) and the business partner told you as the conduct is so disrespectful and outrageous.

PearsandPartridge · 30/01/2021 11:30

I think what OP wanted to get out of sharing her story here is to see she is not overreacting and in fact her husband is being an arse (sorry OP). I had a feeling from the very start that this wasn't about whether to leave or not leave him and I also think OP already knew what she was going to do either way! She needed some support and encouragement to be able to confront her DH with confidence, without actually doubting what was going on. That, I think was the first for her.

OP, is this something you could confide in one of your close friends about (iIf you haven't already)? Someone that knows both of you very well and support you through it? I think it's clear that the overwhelming opinion here is that this is unfortunately not the end of it but maybe if your friends knew what you are facing, they can either a.) open up to you about whether they know something or b.) could be more inclined to alert you in the future knowing that you are already aware of this weird friendship.

And no, I don't mean to get someone to spy on him Grin Just someone who has your back x

Angryandhurt · 30/01/2021 12:07

@PearsandPartridge you have it spot on. Knowing that I'm not over reacting helped me massively in my assertiveness last night and helped me stay in control. My BF knows the situation and I know people won't understand the dynamics of our friendship as you don't know us, but I trust implicitly she would tell me as she would no way allow me to be hurt more than I already am. She's a bit of a ball breaker Grin
I'm more of a people pleaser than I would like to be, which is something I'm working on. I give people the benefit of the doubt far too much, which is what I've clearly done for the last 6 years at the detriment of my own sanity - that will be no more. I've also (maybe unfairly to her) confided in my MIL, which I told him. I have a great relationship with her and she can and does give objective advice. I don't really want to talk about it with my Mum or sister, as if we are to work on things it won't help to listen to them slating him no matter how much he deserves it. I seem to have a sense when there is an increase in contact between them, so will make sure I listen to that spidey sense. I have told him I want access to check his itemised mobile bill. I won't check it all the time as that won't do me any good but it's something I can check if I feel that gut instinct. He is under no illusion this is now make or break. I am worth more and deserve better than what he has done the last 6 years. If he does it again then I won't waste anymore energy on it, it will just be finished and he will be gone.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 30/01/2021 12:24

Look out for the secret phone

Prepare to have to monitor every minute of his day. So what if he is only at work or home....doesn't OW work close by ? There's a lot you can do in an empty office/ stationery cupboard/ lunchtime drive together

This is your 2nd ultimatum. You didn't follow through on the first so why would he take this one any more seriously ?

This is no way to live. Your husband chose this woman the 1st time around and the chances are, because he doesn't see a problem with it, he will do so again.

Onthedunes · 30/01/2021 12:43

I would say op, your MIL does not give ojective advice , she will have the interests of her son first and foremost.
His interests are paramount to her.

I can sense you are a lovely person but maybe try not to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
Even your best friend.
Your mother and sister are the ones to confide in and will view this from your perspective. You are clearly protecting him and covering up his behaviour.
Shine a light on his behaviour and be supported by your allies, not his.

MizMoonshine · 30/01/2021 12:50

OP my DP was on a stag do with his best (female) friends fiance. He watched him essentially fuck a "stripper" with a dildo. Didn't tell his best friend. The guy ended up being a full time piece of shit and cheated on her relentlessly.
My DP could have saved her so much heartache by calling out his behaviours there and then but men just don't put themselves in each others business.
Dicks.

Angryandhurt · 30/01/2021 12:51

@AnyFucker

Look out for the secret phone

Prepare to have to monitor every minute of his day. So what if he is only at work or home....doesn't OW work close by ? There's a lot you can do in an empty office/ stationery cupboard/ lunchtime drive together

This is your 2nd ultimatum. You didn't follow through on the first so why would he take this one any more seriously ?

This is no way to live. Your husband chose this woman the 1st time around and the chances are, because he doesn't see a problem with it, he will do so again.

This time is different because I'm no longer questioning myself if I'm over reacting because I know I'm not. If he chooses her again then he chooses the end of our marriage. I certainly won't be living like this any longer.
OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 30/01/2021 13:05

It’s all quite odd. You clearly perceive her to be attractive and someone he would be attracted to. Hence you sense a threat. But you also firmly believe he hasn’t cheated, even though he had the opportunity and even left at one point so could easily have been with her had he chosen and she was willing. They were both effectively single at that point.

Which indicates to me, maybe she just sees this as friendship, and simoly isn’t interested that way in him, hence why she still texts as she also has a working relationship. She knows she’s not interested, so doesn’t really understand the scale of your issue with her and I’m not sure she warrants being called a cunt by you. It’s him who is the issue here. He knows and he secretly texts her.

So I think what you can’t put your finger on is you think he would if he got the chance.

Trying to control him isn’t going to keep him faithful op. It’s just going to drive his behaviour further under ground.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 30/01/2021 13:14

@MizMoonshine

OP my DP was on a stag do with his best (female) friends fiance. He watched him essentially fuck a "stripper" with a dildo. Didn't tell his best friend. The guy ended up being a full time piece of shit and cheated on her relentlessly. My DP could have saved her so much heartache by calling out his behaviours there and then but men just don't put themselves in each others business. Dicks.
Christ that's grim isn't it. Ugh.

Are you still with your DP? I wouldn't be able to trust someone who had so little respect for their own best friend. What a shit mate.

Angryandhurt · 30/01/2021 13:21

@Bluntness100 she's not unattractive I would say but not what I consider overly attractive but I guess I would consider her to be his "type". He says he's not attracted to her but I don't believe that. IF what he says is true and he told her that I'm unhappy with them messaging and the level of friendship due to his behaviour around her and she's still going to do it then yes, she is a cunt in my eyes as well as him but mainly him, which I told him. I agree if he's going to be unfaithful there's nothing I can do to stop him, it's not something I ever thought I'd have to worry about from him until this but what I can do is outline my expectations and the consequences of anything he now chooses to do.

OP posts:
category12 · 30/01/2021 13:24

You've already done that for 6 years and he's gaslit you and made out it's you being mental.

Obviously you're not ready to call it a day and you're going to continue down this path of policing him and driving yourself bonkers. Don't let it go on too long, is all I can say.

Bluntness100 · 30/01/2021 13:24

Did he tell her all that op? You sure?

Itstimetoquit · 30/01/2021 13:32

I'm so pleased you told him,I pray he will tell her,I hope it all works out x

IfIHadAHeart · 30/01/2021 13:50

I’m going to go against the grain here and say I can’t see what the problem is (other than the subsequent lies, which are not ok).

Letting her park her car, a one-off play date, none of it screams uncontrollable sexual attraction. I’ll be honest, if my husband tried to control what I knew was a platonic friendship I too would resent it. I think saying you wouldn’t let him change his day off once for any friend is extremely controlling and I wonder what other areas of his life you control.

The lying is not ok, however if you were the husband in this scenario and it was a wife continuing a perfectly innocent friendship then the responses would be quite different. NOTHING you have posted suggests there is anything sexual in this friendship.

The lying is a different matter, but again if the sexes were reversed the responses would be about how awful it is that a wife has to hide a friendship for fear of confrontation.

Angryandhurt · 30/01/2021 14:19

@Bluntness100 no not sure to be fair. If he didn't then obviously I can't consider her to be a cunt.

@IfIHadAHeart I didn't say I would stop him, I said I wouldn't be particularly happy cancelling the one day we got to have as a family together. Alarms originally went off about this particular person when he suggested it because her name was being mentioned more frequently. Letting her park in itself wasn't the issue, the issue was it was something he wouldn't do for anyone else. If you read my posts there are other examples where he has gone out of his way for her, where I know he wouldn't for someone else. It left me feeling very uncomfortable which is why I asked him to not have a friendship with her. I control no other aspect of his life and have never had this feeling about anyone else he is friends with.

OP posts:
Angryandhurt · 30/01/2021 14:20

@MizMoonshine

OP my DP was on a stag do with his best (female) friends fiance. He watched him essentially fuck a "stripper" with a dildo. Didn't tell his best friend. The guy ended up being a full time piece of shit and cheated on her relentlessly. My DP could have saved her so much heartache by calling out his behaviours there and then but men just don't put themselves in each others business. Dicks.
That's awful!! How could he just let that go?! Are they still friends?
OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 30/01/2021 14:23

I think logically op you likely know he didn’t tell her all that, so calling her a cunt isn’t ok. It’s just jealousy speaking,

The issue here is you think he fancies her and would go there if she said yes. So by trying to get him to stop communicating with her you perceive this as reducing the risk to you,

It doesn’t, not even slightly, I t just drives him to hide it better. What you going to do, follow him to work and check if he pops into see her? Check his phone constantly?

The fact it’s never happened between them signals she’s not remotely interested, it’s him that is the issue, because if she was interested it would have happened by now,

AnyFucker · 30/01/2021 14:27

Op, you have a very naive view about men. Bro's before ho's is a thing. My husband, who I believe to be one of the good 'uns, has kept his mouth shut about what the male partners in our mutual friendships have been up to on lads trips etc. And vice versa, who knows.

You either trust your husband or you do not. He has given you some solid reasons not to.

harknesswitch · 30/01/2021 14:58

My ex would take a day off work or even half a day and sometimes meet the ow in his lunch break, if they want to, they will find a way. Don't think that just because you don't think he has the time doesn't mean he won't find a way.

Onthedunes · 30/01/2021 15:03

It is good op that you feel you have gained confidence to question all that is presented in front of you.

I'ts a difficult one as to continue in your happy bubble means to trust implicitly. I would not try not defend your viewpoint you have stated you will not take any breaking of promises and would enforce the necessary consequences if broken.

That said it does no harm to listen to other posters on the possibility of what could happen. Knowledge is power and pp's want to prevent you being taken advantage of.
I'ts all supposition but it maybe of help to you.

I know I have learnt many things on this forum by ones far wiser than me, I think I was very niave, I wish I could have had this knowledge years ago.

Pechanga · 30/01/2021 15:12

If he's lied....even just once about one message or conversation then you have a massive problem. If he can't be 100% honest and transparent at all times then the relationship is inappropriate (even if the messages are just platonic) the need to lie and cover up takes the friendship to a sinister place. If you knows you are uncomfortable about this and still refuses to let her go, lying and deleting messages so he can continue, I'd consider this cheating.

I think I'd be making a move to leave him OP.

Angryandhurt · 30/01/2021 15:56

@Bluntness100 it is a possibility that's how she feels but something tells me it's not quite like that. She doesn't message his business partner in the same manner. The message sending is not one sided but he is the one who should be respectful of what I've asked. Platonic or not the friendship causes me concern and he should respect that. No I won't follow him to work or check his phone constantly, it's not something I do now. He has minor behaviour shifts with his phone when he's messaging her and something feels "off" which is when I check.

@Anyfucker I'm not even sure it's just men I'm naive about, I think it's people in general. Because I wouldn't do that, I think other people wouldn't. I guess I need to stop expecting me from other people.

@harknesswitch that's so shit, I'm sorry. Why do people have to be such aresholes?!

@Onthedunes I understand that and I'll take all of the advice on board. My eyes are wide open going forward and I'll have a plan for if it happens again. We have no joint accounts (3 marriages for both my parents taught me that lol), no owned property and I work so no financial dependancy on him. The only thing to sort would be our tennancy.

OP posts:
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