The normalisation of OnlyFans and porn

[mistea]

I graduated from uni about 5 years ago, and still keep in touch with my course mates via a WhatsApp group chat. Recently, one of them was asking if anyone knew of any openings in our field, someone suggested that she open an OnlyFans account, and basically everyone else (it was a very male-dominated course) chimed in about how that was a great idea and that they had friends who did that and made 5+ figures a month.

Fair play but I personally know of a friend who went down that route, made a decent amount in the first few months, only to be pushed to show her face and do more and more extreme acts to retain her subscribers who all ended up leaving anyway. She has now quit but her videos are stuck on free porn sites and reposted on forums from time to time. Her case isn't a rare one.

Is it just the people I surround myself with? Or is this really how the world is today? After my last relationship broke down because of a violent porn 'addiction' on my exDP's part I feel just feel like it's all hopeless now.

I also am shocked at how this is being seen as a normal and easy way to make money. I discovered someone I used to work with has an Only Fans account, and posts explicit photos on Twitter to promote it, leaving nothing to the imagination.

I feel sad for her, her colleagues and literally anyone can see it. Yes the money may feel good now, but it won't last forever but those pictures and what she is doing will haunt her.

The most successful woman I know on OF has a majority sub base of women. 70% women subscribers as opposed to 30% men ... Not sure how normal this is but it’s clearly catering to women too not just boys and men paying for pleasure.

I worry about young people doing OF without fully considering the longer term implications. Things shared online are out there forever and I’d worry about young people who are doing it regretting that later in life or having it cause issues for them later on.

“A lot of men will say they are big fans of porn for example, they have no problem with it, it's liberating for women. Then ask them if they'd have a relationship with a woman who has made porn and they'll say of course not”

Yes I totally agree with this. I had a long conversation with my husband once (before we were married) about someone he knew that stripped and paid her way through uni and for a down payment on a house. He said he respected her choice. I asked what he’d think if I stripped or his mum, sister stripper. He said he obviously wouldn’t like that....so obviously I had to point out that he didn’t really “respect” stripping as a choice then did he and he obviously views people doing it in a negative light if he wouldn’t be happy with a family member doing it.

@wellthatsunusual
‘The transaction is not really about women selling their attractiveness. It's about them selling their humiliation.’

Truer words were never spoken . This is spot on !

I feel sorry for any adolescent girl with nudes online. She won't understand fully that older men are using her as wanking fodder, as she can't understand grown up sexuality.
When that girl is 40, how will she feel if her kids friends, find her online, or the other school dads and teachers. She will be slut shamed for life. Once your picture is put on the Internet, it can be downloaded and kept permanently.

Isn't there a kind of circular argument here though? OF is supposed to be terrible and harmful and degrading to the content creators, because the material they put on it can then find its way onto the wider internet and come back "to haunt them" years later . . .

But if people didn't consider that material embarassing or compromising in the first place, then that wouldn't be a problem. So what if someone simply says "I don't care if people see me naked"? It's conceivable that the next stage in society's normalisation of porn would involve more people doing that.

It’s extremely disingenuous to imply that many of us haven’t lived pay check to Paycheck, i for instance most certainly did many years ago - I had 2 not very thrilling part time jobs- as I said it’s seen as easy money for not that much effort

@FifteenToes

Isn't there a kind of circular argument here though? OF is supposed to be terrible and harmful and degrading to the content creators, because the material they put on it can then find its way onto the wider internet and come back "to haunt them" years later . . .

But if people didn't consider that material embarassing or compromising in the first place, then that wouldn't be a problem. So what if someone simply says "I don't care if people see me naked"? It's conceivable that the next stage in society's normalisation of porn would involve more people doing that.

Fifteen toes you are the same person who in another thread regarding porn refused to answer some very basic question regarding your mysogynistic views regarding women so forgive me when o don’t take your question The issue of women being later shamed for their pictures is only ONE part of this problem the issue lays in the fact men who support porn suggest wome do OF as a Job And that women degrading themselves and objectifying themselves for men’s sexual kicks is seen as a legitimate thing You know all this but as you frequently make clear do not care

@FifteenToes

Isn't there a kind of circular argument here though? OF is supposed to be terrible and harmful and degrading to the content creators, because the material they put on it can then find its way onto the wider internet and come back "to haunt them" years later . . .

But if people didn't consider that material embarassing or compromising in the first place, then that wouldn't be a problem. So what if someone simply says "I don't care if people see me naked"? It's conceivable that the next stage in society's normalisation of porn would involve more people doing that.

The flip side of this is that in order to make money women would have to do something much more humiliating than just naked photos. Because any man can see a naked woman pretty easily. Any art gallery showing photos would probably provide some naked bodies to look at. But the nakedness isn't generally what gets men off, it's more than that.

Also fifteen toes why would anyone in their right mind want to normalise porn ? An industry that uses women bodies as commodities for men and degrades everything truly amazing and beautiful about women

I certainly would not want to shame you @Soccermom1 . But out of interest was the time you sold foot photos etc a while ago? Becuase from people I know who, eg, sold used footwear and feet photos a while ago you could make OK money from it (never that great) but now the market is completely swamped. To make any momey at all women have to start prividing more (and more...and more...) its a slippery slope. And we used to joke about how it was easy money, but she started to get lots of requests for old school shoes, school uniform etc etc and it was just.... ick Even at that very mild end of the market it upset her

My second point - you keep reiterating that you are very careful never to show your face. If sex work is just work why does that matter so much you have to keep mentioning it? Why would you be concerned if your boss, or partner, or kids found out? Because, even if in an ideal world there would be no after effects from being "exposed" you know deep down there would be. So it is no a job like any other is it?

@Countingthebeat

I have no interest in engaging with personal attacks, only in discussing ideas with those capable of doing so politely and respectfully, with the focus on the ideas themselves.

What you choose to read into my views, beyond what I've actually written, is your problem not mine.

Yes @Countingthebeat 15toes is being RaTiOnAl with his rational mans brain. Its not your fault if you are upset at what he says (and if you are criticising him it is definately because you are having an unrational, emotional response to what he says)

The flip side of this is that in order to make money women would have to do something much more humiliating than just naked photos. Because any man can see a naked woman pretty easily. Any art gallery showing photos would probably provide some naked bodies to look at. But the nakedness isn't generally what gets men off, it's more than that.

That's what's weird though, and what I really don't understand about OF. I've never looked at it and don't really understand how it works, but from what I gather the content available on it is generally no more extreme than what's already available for free on plenty of porn sites, and mostly a good deal less. Someone I know of makes a couple of grand a month selling soft focus pics of her cleavage in a low cut top and stuff. How on Earth does that work? It seems to be something to do with the punters knowing they've got something "limited edition" that they've specially chosen etc, that gives them a thrill they don't get from ordinary porn.

Also fifteen toes why would anyone in their right mind want to normalise porn ? An industry that uses women bodies as commodities for men and degrades everything truly amazing and beautiful about women

I didn't anyone would want to. But the title of this thread is precisely that, and noone seems to have challenged the implicit assumption that that is happening. So I was just pointing out that if that keeps happening, we might find ourselves at a point where many people don't feel any particular shame about naked pics of themselves being out there.

Maybe some people already don't, I don't know.

Mean to say "I didn't say anyone would want to."

Good posts wellthatsunusual and NiceGerbil

So there are lots of 15-year olds selling nude videos of themselves on OF? Why isn't this a scandal already?!

If underage people are selling nude/pornogrphic material of themselves on OF, then surely OF are culpable as publishers of that? Why haven't they been prosecuted yet? It must be a very easy thing to prove.

Or do they have some way of framing the relationship between them and the content providers that absolves them of legal responsibility?

@FifteenToes

The flip side of this is that in order to make money women would have to do something much more humiliating than just naked photos. Because any man can see a naked woman pretty easily. Any art gallery showing photos would probably provide some naked bodies to look at. But the nakedness isn't generally what gets men off, it's more than that.

That's what's weird though, and what I really don't understand about OF. I've never looked at it and don't really understand how it works, but from what I gather the content available on it is generally no more extreme than what's already available for free on plenty of porn sites, and mostly a good deal less. Someone I know of makes a couple of grand a month selling soft focus pics of her cleavage in a low cut top and stuff. How on Earth does that work? It seems to be something to do with the punters knowing they've got something "limited edition" that they've specially chosen etc, that gives them a thrill they don't get from ordinary porn.

Presumably it's the power dynamic. As in he pays, she does.

So I was just pointing out that if that keeps happening, we might find ourselves at a point where many people don't feel any particular shame about naked pics of themselves being out there.

The problem as I see it isn't the naked pictures in themselves. It's that women getting naked for men is commodified (just go on Instagram or TikTok and you'll see comments from complete strangers asking if someone has an only fans account or asking that they create one) and seen as something that they should be fortunate they are able to do. You don't quite see the same comments frequently being directed to men to 'spread their cheeks' and take a video of it.

The economy isn't that great right now and to be told that you are lucky you can 'just do only fans so it doesn't matter' is insulting and demoralising. Women are already sometimes mocked as being 'diversity hires' in tech. If we're moving on to a stage where it becomes the norm for women to get naked for money for the pleasure of men, I'm not sure I see the light at the end of the tunnel anymore.

The normalisation of this stuff is all the proof in the world I need to see that feminism has been infiltrated by the patriarchy. Who is the common denominator who is not effected by any of this? Men.

On the subject of children, while I'm totally not in support OnlyFans as a concept, I believe they do have a fairly rigorous age verification process and you have to be over 18.

How are children getting around that?

@FifteenToes

If underage people are selling nude/pornogrphic material of themselves on OF, then surely OF are culpable as publishers of that? Why haven't they been prosecuted yet? It must be a very easy thing to prove.

Or do they have some way of framing the relationship between them and the content providers that absolves them of legal responsibility?

I don’t know about OF but hasn’t there been lots of issue with images of children and images of sexual assault/rape of adults being on other places like porn hub. Presumably if you were exploiting or abusing a child (as in an older child) it wouldn’t be too hard to provide fake details of them being older (fake ID and such) like has happened in porn:

But OF is different from porn sites in that the person in the pictures is the content creator, who has the OF account and gets paid by them.