Fed up with work shy husband

[boopeep76]

Background - married 20 years with 2 teenagers (15, 17). 9 years ago DH made redundant. Didn't know what he wanted to do and I wanted to work a bit more. Decided he would take a some time to think about what he wanted to do, perhaps retrain etc (He never has). He was never a full SAHD - kids were at school, my job had flexi hours/term time only - so whilst he did so some schools runs/childcare - it was still less then me and not something a working parent couldn't do. He would be in charge when I have to work away from home, but he also (pre-covid) would have on average 2 x 2 weeks walking trips away every year. He also never stepped up to take on more home stuff really. Despite half heartedly saying he was waiting for the right thing, thinking about various etc things he had never looked for a job. Alongside this he has had terrible bouts of depression - so I foolishly never pushed it as we can live off of my wages. Things came to a bit of a head (with is moods and lack of effort) about 6 months ago. He thought I was going to leave and promised to get a job and be generally better. His mood has improved loads (suddenly he's the happy one in the house after years of us walking on eggshells) and has stepped up doing more in the house but no effort with the job (one of the big promises). I know it is hard with covid but I genuinely feel he is happy to do nothing and using this as an excuse. What has really got me is he has said he wants to work part time. I actually don't have a problem with this in theory if part time is 3.5 - 4 days a week - but then he drops in 1 - 2 days a week. I am literally fuming inside. We have 20+ years left until pension (with no private pension either). How the f**k does he think that even covers his living costs let along contribute to the family and our future? In fact I can't even picture a future with him at the moment. This would be such a shock to him as he thinks he is the perfect adoring DH (I do get lots of love and complements but I feel these are hollow words because of his lack of action). He thinks I am obsessed by money because we don't "need" more money. Please tell me I am not insane - being made to feel like I am in the wrong for asking this, and like a doormat (which I know is of my own making). Need some wise words to tackle this as it is effecting my mood, sleep etc

I'd agree with the complete split now so you still have time to repair the damage a 50/50 financial split will do. Leave it much longer and there will not be time to repair.

Break up now

Rebuild your financial life

If you don't you will be in penury in your old age supporting him

Splitting divorce now might be just what you need, but you will probably have to pay through the nose to in the financial settlement stage. It might be worth it, but it might not.

Because after 20 years of marriage, the DH could argue to the courts that he has been Primary caregiver to school age children, doing school runs and has supported the OP’s career so she could work away from home at times.

Furthermore, that he is disabled by a long term mental health condition which precluded him from being employed for 9 years. The usual process for patients in recovery after a long term mental illness is to ease back into work with support by exploring part time volunteering, studying new qualifications, moving on to part time paid work, and then to full time paid work. No agency is going to say that a person who’s suffered terrible depression for 9 years can just jump into full time work without very high risk of a relapse.

So he argues to the courts, I was essentially a disabled SAHP, we have been married 20yrs. He will ask for 50/50 of the assets and he won’t have to pay CMS, how can he when he is disabled and earns nothing? OP may end up losing half of everything, including her pension.

I’m not saying this is my opinion. This is just what the DH could argue. I’m saying this as a devils advocate.

So I’d get legal advice in all honesty because it might be worth pushing him to get back on his feet through that Richmond fellowship service and then divorcing because then the courts would be less likely to listen to a sob story if he’s recovered and working.

OP, this is me too. I'm just a bit older with 2DD left home and one still at school. The good news is that the DC are hardworking and motivated and not like their dad. But that's the only good news, apart from that we are not married. I am about to see a solicitor to see if he has any rights over the house which is in my name, him never having contributed.
The part that puts me off kicking him out is that he would possibly end up destitute and I wouldn't want my daughters to have to witness that.
The descriptions you used of 'rage' and 'resentment' are how I feel on a bad day.

So we had a "chat" the other night. He was actually the one who said "you're not happy are you?" - so I told him why. It was very civilised and he said he knew he had let me down for years. To questions about his MH - it has been v. bad for years (including suicidal periods) which is one of the reasons I haven't pushed this before. I don't underestimate for one minute how devastating this has been for him but I cannot live the next 30 years of my life like this and I now recognise how much this has impacted on me and the children (They adore him and visa versa but also know what it is like when he is not in a good place). He has started looking and applying for jobs already but is very withdrawn with me since the discussion. I think it is clear that things to need change for both of us, and I am not going to let it slip this time. I would be heartbroken if we did split, but I think I would be broken in many other ways if we didn't and things did not change dramatically, which I know now I will not accept

Glad to hear OP that you’ve had a talk at least, though talk doesn’t always change things it can clarify them. It’s strange, I was thinking (myself included here) some women often carry the family for years. ... then they realise it’s so exhausting they can’t do it anymore.

My advice is in the meantime cut yourself some slack and real relax time. Take it easy. If stuff doesn’t get done, that’s ok. I hope you’re feeling better generally and things improve for you, whatever happens.

@ExtraSettings Thank you. It's interesting to note that before I felt so anxious/sick and now I feel sad but the anxiety has lessened loads. I agree, I think lots of women carry the load - especially the mental load. When the kids were small you literally live one day to the next with the busyness of it all and time passes without you realising. I think "how did I let it go on so long?" For no particular reason some tiny straw has broken me and I can't go back now, it has to change. I start counselling tomorrow (alone, I haven't told him).

Well done OP, you sound very calm and focussed. I hope you find counselling helpful.

Counselling is an excellent plan. Someone who listens to just you!

Well done OP.

He may be withdrawn because even though he knows he has taken the piss for years, he is annoyed at being called out on it. He would be quite happy for you to continue to carry the load.
Heaven forbid you ever needed support OP.
This will have impacted your children for sure.
Great that you are going to get counselling, it would be awful for this to remain your life.

OP, I am so pleased that you are having independent counselling and support. I know how hard it must be after being together so long and having DC together, but for your own health and sanity both now and in the future you need to 'stick to your guns' and don't let him slide back into apathy and inaction. Whatever reasons/excuses/explanations he has, it's just not fair on you and the children.

I'm in my early 20s so didn't have the marriage aspect of this, however I was very unwell mentally, and one of the things that MASSIVELY helped was working in a warehouse, and potentially something menial and physical (it is menial) like this where your husband is up exercising will probably help him if hes able to do it. It also fulfilled my need to show I had done something, even of it was minimum wage, as your depression cannot argue against a wage slip. Even if it's just a couple of days, find an agency near you and get your husband to give it a shot, there were some properly useless cases came through where I worked, so there won't be much expectation. Just the routine alone would be so good if hes been like this for years.

He may be withdrawn because even though he knows he has taken the piss for years, he is annoyed at being called out on it

My very thought - I'd have hoped he'd be sweetness and light after "the talk" but apparently not

Excellent news about the counselling though; as a PP said, someone who'll focus just on you will be hugely valuable, clarify your thinking, and hopefully help you to find your way out of this

I had a very similar ex-husband - even the "live in a shack" type of comments. He was always critical of anyone else's aspirations, life styles etc. The marriage died a long, slow death. I spent so much time cajoling, persuading, pleading with him to change for his benefit and for the children. I wasted over 10 years doing this before divorcing. Then he wouldn't move out of the house (my house) for another 4 years. It all seemed so difficult to actually end it even though I was desperate to. My advice is not to believe that he will change. It is very unlikely and, frankly, not worth the effort. The only regret I have in life is that I didn't manage to end the marriage much sooner for my sake and that of the children. I doubt you need counselling tbh. Are you sure that isn't just an easier option than actually ending your marriage and moving on? Good luck.

I agree that he is likely withdrawn & quiet because he is resentful that the gravy train has ended.

To be honest he is thick because he has been finally told that he has to get a job after 9 years of doing fuck all. You have supported him,you and 2 kids all on your own for that length of time. Your always carrying the load re money - working out how to stretch it, which bill to pay next and then trying to have money aside to pay the unexpected bill.
I would get legal advice about what would happen if you got divorced because you might be better doing this soon after he gets a job. Let him see the reality of managing on X amount of money a week or a month.
I have a friend who has been out of work a few year's not in the uk. She has done some courses. Last year she started to do some volunteer work in a charity shop and it gave her experience and confidence. Where she lives is in lockdown. She is currently getting her CV ready to apply for jobs once the lockdown ends. She is getting a welfare payment each week and is is keen to work out because she would be far better off.

@Student133

I'm in my early 20s so didn't have the marriage aspect of this, however I was very unwell mentally, and one of the things that MASSIVELY helped was working in a warehouse, and potentially something menial and physical (it is menial) like this where your husband is up exercising will probably help him if hes able to do it. It also fulfilled my need to show I had done something, even of it was minimum wage, as your depression cannot argue against a wage slip. Even if it's just a couple of days, find an agency near you and get your husband to give it a shot, there were some properly useless cases came through where I worked, so there won't be much expectation. Just the routine alone would be so good if hes been like this for years.

@Student133 well done to you personally and your contribution here is important.

We all have to take responsibility for managing chronic illnesses the best we can for ourselves and also our families. Whether it is diabetes or depression we need to be accountable for trying to add in lifestyle efforts to help us through. I wonder how involved with healthcare professionals this guy is / was and how much responsibility he takes for improving his MH?

The suicide angle is v important. Sometimes it’s a manipulative tactic. At these times it’s important to call an ambulance, insist he goes to A&E - because if he is actively suicidal he needs urgent medical intervention.

OP glad you had the good chat but honestly if he doesn't shape up in the next 6 month's start divorce.

You will be dumbfounded and amazed at how quickly this man who "wants to live in a shack" realises actually he doesn't want to do that but does want over 50% of the house and half your pension and maybe even some spousal support as he gave up his career to be a stay at home husband.
Tread carefully and decisively or you'll be working into your 70s due to facilitating his lifestyle.

Re suicidal tendencies you have good advice from others here.

The suicide angle is v important. Sometimes it’s a manipulative tactic

I can't pretend I've not wondered the same, especially as the "withdrawal" could be any number of things - a genuine "wow, I need to get my head together", an attempt at sulking to get OP back into line, shock at the ATM perhaps closing, a genuine descent into further MH problems, who knows?

Unfortunately, after 20 years of this and allowing for her excessive tolerance, it may be that OP isn't best placed to see t'other from which - and of course, if she allows it she'll be right back where she started

@Puzzledandpissedoff

The suicide angle is v important. Sometimes it’s a manipulative tactic

I can't pretend I've not wondered the same, especially as the "withdrawal" could be any number of things - a genuine "wow, I need to get my head together", an attempt at sulking to get OP back into line, shock at the ATM perhaps closing, a genuine descent into further MH problems, who knows?

Unfortunately, after 20 years of this and allowing for her excessive tolerance, it may be that OP isn't best placed to see t'other from which - and of course, if she allows it she'll be right back where she started

The answer is to flush it out / shine a light in it.....put it in the hands of professionals - if it’s real they will help much more than you can - if it isn’t the bluff is called and they can’t keep using it as a threat hanging over you.

I had a MH prof tell a dear friend that this was exactly what her DH was doing - he was sectioned at the time after his MH “spiralled” after she decided she wanted to move on.

She was been kept an emotional hostage. Same thing her DH never worked, he was far to special / precious / fragile.

OP, I think some of the posters are being unnecessarily negative. I can only speak from my own experience but sometimes people with depressive tendencies go "withdrawn" when they are processing things. And the fact that he's actively started looking for work does show more motivation to improve and save the relationship than others are giving credit for.

Yes he might be struggling with the idea of his very unchallenging life changing - who wouldn't be after almost a decade - but that doesn't mean he hasn't heard you clearly. The fact that he instigated the chat is a good sign.

I agree that counselling for you will be great and help you find your own way forward. It's up to him now to prove to you that he's worth bringing along for the ride

The proof as they say will be in the pudding. Is this the wake up call he needed or will things slip back in a few weeks or months after a spurt of effort? After such a long relationship (with lots of love and shared experiences over the years) means that I am prepared to give it some more time to see if it changes. So whilst not giving a "get ANY job right now" ultimatum I have made it very clear that he needs to be applying now to reasonably acceptable jobs and committing financially and time and effort if he wants a shared future (and that we also need to have some honest conversations about what that future looks like as I am not sure we want the same things aside from the money/work thing). The counselling session was really helpful - a space to say 100% how I feel without wondering what someone else will think (this goes for how much I would tell friends etc not just my DH). I feel I am moving forwards for the first time in a long time, I just don't know yet which direction it will go in, but one thing is for sure it will NOT be staying like it has been.

I am glad that you have found one to one time and space to express and process your thinking around this and that you found it useful.

That's great OP - it will really help you focus on what YOU want now, rather than just accommodating his desires

Has he found a job?