Constantly being told what to do

[Pickle48]

I've NC'ed for this, not sure why as its so outing but hey ho. There are other issues in my marriage but this is something that's bugging me. Because I cant seem to find a way to solve it.

Over the past number of years I feel more and more like a schoolkid in our relationship and I don't know what to do or how to fix it.

This is a bit random but an example. Had a delivery and it came with one of those gel ice packs in them. I thought it seemed silly to throw it away, especially as I do a lot of sport and they are useful for injuries. So I put it in the freezer. DW asks what it was doing in there, so I explained. Next day I find it in the bin. I asked why she did it and she said we didn't need it. I said I had explained why I wanted it and put it back. A week later I heard my wife complain again that "it made finding things in the freezer hard" and it ended up in the bin again.

And again. My parents sent me some presents and they had bought a box to put them all in. Im not talking some random cardboard box, its purpose built and decorated. Before I had even said anything my DW said "don't think you are keeping that". Then again this morning I was asked "why is that not in the recycling yet"

And before you ask. We live in a big house, its not cramped. I am not a hoarder, but I hate throwing stuff away when they could be reused. But its not just this - I get told what to do in other areas of life as well. For years I have just backed down. If I try not to back down it just ends in an argument. What do I do.... (aside from leave)

Love
“The great desert that lies between that we seek and those who seek it. The empty gulf and that we find on the far side. No matter much food and water you take it will never be enough to cross the sands. You can but dream or foolishly strike out only to be forced back.”
“So, you can never cross?”
“You can never cross by just seeking to cross. You must first water, tend, and nurture. Only by nurture and tending, turning the dust off the desert to green can you reach your goal. What then on the far side if we look back as we find there only that which we carried with us?”

I am shocked at the therapist telling you "what is wrong with you" and analysing the dynamic as if her viewpoint is supposed to intrude into therapy. She sounds as if she thinks she is Right.

She should have been enabling you to discover your dynamic yourself.

On the other hand, is it worth analysing? This relationship is only bringing you pain.

it took me a few weeks to pluck up the courage to admit to her that I was getting professional help

To your own wife?? And then her response was not one of love or concern, it was one of negativity.

OP you clearly have some issues within yourself that it is good for you to work on, you obviously realise this, and probably with a (different) therapist. The trouble is, you're married to someone who is seemingly making these issues worse. It's like you've broken your leg, and trying to run a marathon, and you're posting on here saying "why is my leg hurting?"

Well, your leg needs help to heal yes. But what would really help first would be to stop running the marathon.

Not sure if this has been said, but she may panic and throw herself at you. Do not have sex with her, if she gets pregnant you will be tied to her forever more.

Sorry OP, I haven't read all the responses here, but your original post sounds similar to what happens with my dh. He's thrown away many of my things that were important to me without asking - your example of the special box really struck me. It's something unique you want to keep, like a lovely brochure I got through the post once, it wasn't a big deal but he tore it to pieces and threw it in the bin. He's got a mania for tearing things up When I pulled him about it, he just made me feel like I was making a fuss and said he'd get me another one if I was that bothered. No thanks, that's not the point. And like you, I mostly stay quiet to keep the peace. I'm hoping you've had some good advice here x

what happens if I leave this relationship only to find that I'm equally closed off, and that actually the sex doesn't improve
Perhaps you'll have an equally shit relationship, but with a different person. Perhaps you'll keep looking until you find someone you get on with better. Perhaps you'll have a child with someone, then break up with them. Perhaps you'll fall in love, get married and end up a widower. Perhaps you'll marry at 50 and adopt a child. Perhaps you'll stay alone the rest of your life and become a famous mountain climber :D Lots of possibilities! Life has many unexpected twists and turns. Even if you choose to stay, there's far from any guarantee that you will stay together for the rest of your life.

So what's my dilemma. Its that maybe I am closed off, maybe I am unable to receive love. And what happens if I leave this relationship only to find that I'm equally closed off, and that actually the sex doesn't improve

That's not a dilemma. A dilemma has 2 horns. The horns here are 'stay and be abused' or 'leave and deal with my issues.' Choosing abuse is not an option. When you leave the relationship, there will be no sex. You may be closed off. You may be unable to receive love.

AND THAT'S FINE. Be single. Work through with a decent therapist why you're closed off and struggle receiving love. Work out why you feel an abuser can support you better than you can support yourself.

Your partner isn't saving you from anything. You have your issues whether you're with her or not. It will be infinitely easier to deal with them if you are not being verbally, emotionally and psychologically abused every time you blink.

Wise words @Eckhart

When you're young, and you have your life in front of you, the road seems very long and straight. There are no turn offs, with no real need for a map. You travel with the exuberance of youth. But with time, the road becomes windy, steep and full of junctions and turnoffs. You are sacred of taking a wrong turn in case it leads to a dead end. But the road you are on now may in turn lead to a dead end. Not now, but later on. Some people are better at map reading than others, and have a sense where a road may be leading.

I've come to the conclusion I'm not that great at map reading, but I'm learning. But I've also realised that sometimes when you are lost, no matter how hard you read the map, the best thing to do is stop and ask a passerby. I mean locals know these roads best right, they have been down them before.

So thankyou to all the passerby'ers who have helped me this week. @Eckhart @ravenmum to name just two.

I started saying I had NC'ed. I posted last summer as well, and there was someone who went by the name of DonnaQuixoteManchester or something like that. She was doing her dissertation and had a lot of time for me. Hopefully (maybe) she will read this and know who I mean. I have a debt of gratitude to her as well, and everyone else. Thanks.

I wish you well on your journey @Pickle48

Lovely post OP.

You are not alone.

You are also never too old to change the path you are on, or to aspire for something greater than what you have.

Life is just so short...the older you get the more you realise this.

My children are largely calm and accepting of Covid, its restrictions and inconveniences. They are all confident in their plans for travel and festivals for next summer. 🤞

The older my friends and family are, the more robbed they feel of valuable time in their lives....as time moves on relentlessly.

Value you years OP, they slip by so quickly.

Sometimes when you didnt have a great childhood, you reach a mountain and you don't have the momentum or the resilience or the perseverence or the faith in yourself to get over the mountain, so you take the passive path of least resistance. Leaving a marriage is not easy. I agree with eckhart though, you dont really have a 'dilemma'. You need bravery to leave.

I love your analogy with the map @Pickle48, it explains so perfectly how life feels sometimes.

Bear in mind that this is a feeling, an interpretation. Life actually does just go down one road, however much we concern ourselves with junctions and turnings. None of us will ever know what life would have been like if we'd made a different turn each time we needed to make a decision.

What you see as dead ends and wasted time, I see as different towns along the road. Yes, some of them aren't very nice, and yes, eventually we come to the 'thank you for visiting Craptown' sign, and that section of our life is over, but inevitably, we will have learned something in Craptown, and it will come in useful when we get to Nice-ville, down the road.

My abuser taught me the very best lessons I've ever had. I learned that I needed boundaries to protect myself from a horribleness in people I didn't even know existed, and especially not with such a pretty face. I learned that my voice and my feelings were just as important as everybody else's, regardless of how much they try to shush me. I learned that I am not a victim by nature, and that when I'm disrespected, I say 'Fuck you!', and that doesn't make me a bad person, so I don't have to shush myself.

When I left the relationship, my boundaries were so high, I struggled even to trust my best friend. Since then, a bit like a startled deer, I've gradually lowered them when I'm around peaceful, drama free people. Those are 'my people', but I didn't know it before. And that's what I seek out nowadays. People who make me feel peaceful and drama free. I have so much to thank my abuser for, including friendships I have pursued that I would not have done before, that make me feel safe, and will likely last my lifetime.

Your posts are hard to read, OP, because this relationship is causing you to feel such drama. So many unanswered questions, so much unexplained. You can walk away without answers to any of it. Nothing needs to be resolved. It doesn't mean you've hit a dead end, wasted time, or turned back. Walking away would mean that you've learned the lessons that this woman came to teach you: You can say no, and you deserve to. If someone treats you in a way that makes you feel bad, you can flip them the bird, and you don't even have to explain why, let alone justify yourself. You owe the world nothing, and you don't have to be a nice person, or be around other not nice people. There are no 'emotion laws'. Nobody has to be right or wrong in the way they treat each other emotionally. There are no 'powers that be' that can tell you if somebody is treating you well or badly. The only judgment to be made is 'How do you feel when you're around them?' Only you can make that judgment. This is about you, not her.

I use my feelings as a proximity measurer. If I find myself feeling bad around somebody, questioning their behaviour, questioning my own feelings, acting in a way that I don't like etc, then I stay far away from them. If I feel myself to be a lovely person around somebody, calm and relaxed, I take steps to get closer to them and spend more time together.

You sound ready to leave Craptown, OP. But you don't have to turn back, and you haven't wasted any time. You can walk out the far side, and continue on your own road without her. Leaving my abuser felt like stepping into adulthood, for me (I was in my late 30s) I'm so glad that experience is now behind me, but I'm so glad I went through it. Since a couple of years after I left, all I would have to say to my abuser if we met would be 'thank you'. I will ensure, however, that we never meet.

Coming out the other side and having some peaceful time on the road alone can infinitely improve your life, @Pickle48. If nothing else, you'll get some peace and quiet from the constant questioning that's triggered by her day to day actions. It's a massive waste of your time. You clearly think deeply and are a lovely person; you're a fantastic partner for somebody who will appreciate those things. But first be a fantastic partner to yourself. Offer yourself the dedication and stability that you are currently wasting energy on trying to provide for her. She doesn't want that from you; she only wants the parts of you that lack, or to pretend that you lack when you don't. She is creating and responding to a negative fantasy of what you are. That's her failing, OP. Not yours.

(longest post I've ever written. Too much coffee, perhaps... )

It’s all so exhausting. I bet you can’t think straight or see the wood for the trees. You will feel less lonely on your own than in this relationship. You deserve to be happy and have a healthy fulfilling sex life.

@Eckhart such a beautiful, wise and moving post. So much to think on in this thread.

@Pickle48 to continue with your great road walking analogy, there are times when keeping on going feels challenging, and it’s at those times that simply focussing on putting one foot in front of the other is not only all you can do, but all you need to do. It will get you to where you need to go next.

On the subject of your therapist, I have found that the type of therapy you enter into isn’t nearly as important as the therapist who walks alongside you on your journey. Wishing you a journey full of lovely passers by, beautiful views and some great places.

Small update.

So I have told her that I think its best that I move out. I explained my position, but kept it not about the finer details of her actions. So I just said that she thinks sex is low down on the priority list in relationships whilst I don't. I've told her that I don't want to spend the rest of my life in a sexless relationship.

Her reaction - very adamant that this was 100% my decision and she doesn't want it to happen. She just kept on repeating "to be clear, this is all your decision". She also said that 'if you want to be more of a man, then leave and show that you have the balls to make a decision and own it'. I tried to explain that it was a very hard decision for me, that I wanted to discuss and try to come to an agreement.

I offered to stay close by, and help her with some of the work on the house that we aren't finished renovating yet. (Some smaller jobs still to do). And we could use those days to talk. It was an offer which I thought was the right thing to do.

But she said no way. She said if I leave then I can't come back during the spilt time, and that she will get people in to do these jobs. We will meet in a park. She also said that that if I leave for a trial split, its the end of the marriage because I will never come back. She has asked for me to wait so she can think about the "terms and conditions of the split".

She spent a day upset, and then literally its been like this conversation never happened. Within about 24 hours she was showing pictures of us on holiday saying how much fun it was etc. She has been chirpy... its literally like the conversation never took place.

Look - I can see what's going on. She is still at this point trying to keep control. Its all on her terms. And that the perceived happiness is too pull me back in. I feel like I am being emotionally manipulated.

I had a session with my therapist I and just came out and said "look, she is manipulating me" and my therapist said "but don't you think by threatening to leave, you are holding a gun to her head and so actually you are manipulating her".

This period sums up my marriage completely. My DW has to be upset and angry that I'm saying I want time apart, but she doesn't want to address the issue. Instead she puts on a mask, but allows the resentment to build until her next aggressive outburst. Oh and she is being very lovey dovey, paying me compliments and saying well done when I do anything. Its feels weird.

I know you will all say that its not for me to get into my DWs head and unpick it all, but I'm just so upset. I just wish she would address her issues - but she wont. Even when I say I'm leaving, she won't say "ok, I will do something about it". I think deep down she thinks I will never leave.

Weirdly though, I haven't felt depressed and that I feel a little bit stronger that I did before.

There are so many people in the world, don't stick with one that makes you unhappy.

Even being on your own will be good for you to build yourself up and realise what you really want.

Don't settle for this.

Well, you made a decision and you're going to act on it.

It's like your therapist has heard nothing else, and only heard ''have more sex with me or I'm off''.

I believe you that your wife thinks you will never leave. My x thought that definitely. I'd been begging him not to be so awful for five years but he got a shock when I left.

But you have a standard in there and you are going to act on it.

I think your DW sounds like my parents, happy with a very low level of intimacy. It's like, she wants thiiiiiis much intimacy, and she's in control of that, and your therapist thinks you just want more sex cos you're a cave man. But you want more respect and closeness and affection and your dw cannot go there. she just cannot go there. So she projects it back on to you. Shames you.

Can I link to one of the most helpful videos I've ever watched on youtube. It's about parents really but it is also about being with an avoidant person who controls the level of intimacy.

''You're denied any real connection but summonsed to stay in the relationship. It is crazy making''.

Listen to this clip, it will validate you more than your psychotherapist.

Your therapist is really shit.
In fact it sounds like she's a friend of your wife.
I sure as shit wouldn't be paying her money for her services 🙄.

Your wife is a controlling, manipulative, nasty, woman.

I think you should ignore her.
You have told her you are moving out.
Follow through.

You are never going to get from this relationship what you want.

Her need to control yet belittle you is deeply unpleasant.

Follow through on your plans and for goodness sake get a different therapist......she's bloody awful.

Agree your therapist sounds shit

Agreed with the others. You HAVE to follow through this time OP or you lose all credibility.

I agree your therapist sounds terrible. I know from my own experience you have to try a few to get the perfect fit and when you do, it transforms things.

I do kind of agree though that you could be seen to be holding a gun to her head by keep threatening to leave and not. Your wife's behaviour is inexcusable but it's not healthy to keep saying you're leaving and not following through either.

It sounds like you have prioritised her feelings for so long it’s automatic for you at this point.

Even when breaking up you are spending energy wanting to talk & help her see your side, help her change.

Based on what you’ve told us - At some point you need to accept she is not going to change. Your energy is wasted. You would be better off focusing on yourself & how you can leave quickly.

I would personally sever the ties with this therapist. They clearly aren’t helping you. Not all therapists are equal. You would be better off with a male therapist IMO.

If your wife has given you the out to leave, just do it. Pack your bags & get out ! You will be happier for it wherever you go.

Well, the answer to, "Again?' is 'Yes, again.' If she doesn't like it, she knows where the eggs are.
And if you do all the cooking, it beats me why she needs to go into the freezer?
You do sound a bit wimpy, though - if you can't stand up for yourself and she's lost respect for you, it's hard to find a way back from that.