Dating/sex - while Christian

[ZebraSpotts]

I'd like to get back out there, but basically can't reconcile the two. Any other practicing Christians have any advice.

I'm 33, been 'single' a few years which has been good for me and now doing formalities of divorce this new year.

Can't ever see myself getting married again (was a traumatic experience in almost every regard, DV for many years, stolen from, cheated on and worse, etc etc ) ,
so by Christian values relegates me to being forever single 😭
But Id like the companionship, attention, sex, care, thoughtfulness of a new partner, feel like I'm still young and could be a great gf/long term partner too.

Thoughts? Basically got to give up my Christian values or give on idea of dating, right?

@Itsnotlikethiswithotherpeople

Pork thing is a red herring... read Paul for why.

But on the issue of sex before marriage, perhaps just wait and see. Many Christians do have happy second marriages after abuse. Right now that may feel impossible because it’s an imaginary person and scary. But if you are with someone loving and respectful and kind you may warm to the idea. Highly recommend professional counselling, have you had any? Also most Anglican clergy are being required to attend domestic abuse training now. So I think it is an area that churches are (finally) starting to become more aware of. Hope you can find peace and happiness OP. I’m so sorry your ex-husband treated you so badly and I’m glad you’re able to think about meeting someone new.

^ This, OP. This ^

I can see the difference between long-term and flings. In a long term, loving relationship you’re expressing love rather than using another person to gratify a desire.

I’m saying this as someone who hasn’t had sex outside marriage. Remarriage after divorce is also not possible in my religion.

I find it interesting through how much angst is spent on this question and how much less thought is given to the far deeper and much much more difficult task of trying to treat others as Jesus would wish, day in, day out. Our moral focus is very twisted, I think.

There are about four people in the UK who actually manage to be Christians, I think.

God impregnated an unconsenting virgin.

He won't begrudge you the odd dalliance in the bedroom.

Perhaps another reason to consider is why this particular rule was introduced at the time. Prior to reliable contraception it absolutely made sense for it to be socially unacceptable for regular sex outside of marriage, you would have huge numbers of children whith no means of support. At least if marriage were the norm, it would hopefully mean you had two individuals instead of one bringing up children, and when viewed from the perspective of a pre industrial agrarian society, this makes absolute sense. But as logical as this is prior to 20th century, we now live in the 21st, and obviously this is not as much of an issue.

@trixiebelden77

I can see the difference between long-term and flings. In a long term, loving relationship you’re expressing love rather than using another person to gratify a desire.

I’m saying this as someone who hasn’t had sex outside marriage. Remarriage after divorce is also not possible in my religion.

I find it interesting through how much angst is spent on this question and how much less thought is given to the far deeper and much much more difficult task of trying to treat others as Jesus would wish, day in, day out. Our moral focus is very twisted, I think.

There are about four people in the UK who actually manage to be Christians, I think.

Crikey, who are those four people? :)

It sounds like you have drawn on a lot of strength to leave your previous relationship. Don't compromise on your values. Few people on Mumsnet will admit to following no sex before marriage but I believe it is there to protect us as sex is so important it is not to be done lightly. If someone really wants to be with you and genuinely shares your faith, this will not be a problem for them. I really hope you find a lovely Christian man, I've seen so many relationships where one person is not a Christian go so badly wrong as there is no shared faith. I have a couple of Christian friends who have found lovely spouses on Christian dating sites, maybe it is easier to be clear from the start what are the things that are important to you.

OP, this is the wrong site to ask about Christian values/dating as a lot of people on this forum won't be practicing Christians and therefore won't understand the importance of your choice to live by those values.

What do you term a "practicing Christian"? I don't live in the UK but most churches here couldn't care less about sex prior to marriage, or couples living together. We had a very good friend who was an vicar, and his daughter lived with her boyfriend for some time before they married - and this was decades ago - it didn't seem to bother him unduly. There is nothing wrong with the OP wanting to live according to her values, but she is making things difficult for herself.

I've seen so many relationships where one person is not a Christian go so badly wrong as there is no shared faith

Not for me! I'm an atheist, DW is Christian. We've been together 21 years and we've known each other's beliefs from day one.
Some of her friends from Church weren't happy about it but they've just had to get used to it.

AverageContents, it’s very obvious you have never read the relevant Bible passage before insulting God with such an outright lie.
Gabriel told Mary what God was asking of her. Mary replied “Behold the handmaid of the Lord. Be it unto me according to thy word”.
See? Consent. Willingly given.
And no rape was involved- Mary was and remained a virgin, impregnated by the Holy Spirit.
It was actually quite a feminist event - no mere man was involved at all in the birth of Christ, just God and a young woman.

Agree with @Student133

If a woman had got pregnant out of wedlock back then then both would have ran risk of abandonment and destitution. I believe the idea of marriage before sex was simply to keep this from happening. Now adays we have contraception and child support.

Of course the poster is absolutely correct who said that as I'm not religious, I cant appreciate your desire to live your life according to the rules set out. My point is that given the nature of the bible, and the fact it is not the literal word if god, unlike in Islam say, I do think it is worth looking at a tenet like this and looking at why it was created. Though I would agree that sleeping around is against the spirit if the bible (I dont do this, for probably the same reason as the bible lays out, despite having never been to a service in my life) I dont necessarily think that a committed relationship is beyond the pale, perhaps have a google around common law marriages in history which is probably the closest equivalent.

I’m sorry you had such a traumatic marriage I hope you can fully heal and move on to a better future for yourself and your children
I’m a Christian and used to go to church (evangelical C of E). I still believe and pray but don’t feel comfortable in a church environment as I don’t feel fully at home or like I fit in. I can relate to feeling a tension between your faith and your desire to meet someone special one day.
Whilst I was a churchgoer in my mid 20s, a friend and I became aware of the very skewed male/ female ratio at church and the large numbers of single women in their 30s, 40s and older who were still devotedly going to church and holding out for the perfect man that God would send. It wasn’t their fault that the gender ratio was so weighted against them - and it was probably partly that way because of the traditional teachings about sex which most men would run a mile from! Meanwhile the guys seemed to have their pick of the bunch and it’s not surprising so many pursued marriage at an early age - I suspect so they could have sex and gain their church friends approval that they were ‘doing the right thing’. I realised that if I continued limiting myself to Christian circles, I would more than likely never meet anyone significant, but that was because of who I am, and an entirely personal decision. I was more ambitious than many of the women at church and didn’t want children (still don’t). I was too edgy for most of the men there. So I never allowed any man at church to get to know me properly. I couldn’t be bothered to do Christian dating online. I knew it’d be a similar pool of men and I’d be rejected in favour of maternal women.
Some of my lovely and well meaning Christian friends (some of whom are very devout and still single years later) were shocked when I told them this was my view and approach. I eventually stopped going to church. I knew I’d experience a telling off from someone or other at church if I ever said I was dating a ‘non-Christian’. This had happened to female friends of mine. A telling off wasn’t something I was going to endure as an adult. I wasn’t a naughty child!
Some years later I met my husband on a major online dating site and we’re very happy and well suited. He’s agnostic but open minded, very curious, asks loads of questions about God, respects my faith and is happy for me to pray for him/ with him at times, especially if facing a difficult situation. I don’t enforce my views on him but we have plenty of discussions. There’s respect and also a lot of humour! I believe God helped bring him into my life. We lived together before we were married and didn’t experience any angry lightning bolts from the sky...!
Would you consider ‘widening the net’ one day, so to speak? You could meet someone who doesn’t have exactly the same beliefs as you but has so much love to give Personally I think the church needs to move on and stop being so uptight and controlling about people’s private lives. I place more weight on the gospels and Jesus’ actual teachings than the rest of the NT.
A friend of mine was married to a Christian who ended up being physically and emotionally abusive. As you know, just because there’s a ‘Christian’ label, it doesn’t mind they’re a good ‘un Sorry for the long ramble, I know it’s just my experience but thought I’d share so you know you’re not alone having the thoughts that you do. Keep looking onwards and upwards to Him

"God is love, and those who live in love live in God and God lives in them".

@Babdoc

AverageContents, it’s very obvious you have never read the relevant Bible passage before insulting God with such an outright lie. Gabriel told Mary what God was asking of her. Mary replied “Behold the handmaid of the Lord. Be it unto me according to thy word”. See? Consent. Willingly given. And no rape was involved- Mary was and remained a virgin, impregnated by the Holy Spirit. It was actually quite a feminist event - no mere man was involved at all in the birth of Christ, just God and a young woman.

Tou you trawl threads waiting for an opportunity to go on about the bible?

@klaerntrapetor if you scroll back you will see that that pp was replying to a very ignorant post. And has every right to defend her faith.

@trixiebelden77

I can see the difference between long-term and flings. In a long term, loving relationship you’re expressing love rather than using another person to gratify a desire.

I’m saying this as someone who hasn’t had sex outside marriage. Remarriage after divorce is also not possible in my religion.

I find it interesting through how much angst is spent on this question and how much less thought is given to the far deeper and much much more difficult task of trying to treat others as Jesus would wish, day in, day out. Our moral focus is very twisted, I think.

There are about four people in the UK who actually manage to be Christians, I think.

There are alot more then 4 just not by your definition it seems!

Religion is subject to interpretation hence there are so many different denominations of every religion.

OP I think you can be both as said a Christian and date you just have to do what your comfortable with as with anything else in life!

@bestguesstimate

I’m sorry you had such a traumatic marriage I hope you can fully heal and move on to a better future for yourself and your children I’m a Christian and used to go to church (evangelical C of E). I still believe and pray but don’t feel comfortable in a church environment as I don’t feel fully at home or like I fit in. I can relate to feeling a tension between your faith and your desire to meet someone special one day. Whilst I was a churchgoer in my mid 20s, a friend and I became aware of the very skewed male/ female ratio at church and the large numbers of single women in their 30s, 40s and older who were still devotedly going to church and holding out for the perfect man that God would send. It wasn’t their fault that the gender ratio was so weighted against them - and it was probably partly that way because of the traditional teachings about sex which most men would run a mile from! Meanwhile the guys seemed to have their pick of the bunch and it’s not surprising so many pursued marriage at an early age - I suspect so they could have sex and gain their church friends approval that they were ‘doing the right thing’. I realised that if I continued limiting myself to Christian circles, I would more than likely never meet anyone significant, but that was because of who I am, and an entirely personal decision. I was more ambitious than many of the women at church and didn’t want children (still don’t). I was too edgy for most of the men there. So I never allowed any man at church to get to know me properly. I couldn’t be bothered to do Christian dating online. I knew it’d be a similar pool of men and I’d be rejected in favour of maternal women. Some of my lovely and well meaning Christian friends (some of whom are very devout and still single years later) were shocked when I told them this was my view and approach. I eventually stopped going to church. I knew I’d experience a telling off from someone or other at church if I ever said I was dating a ‘non-Christian’. This had happened to female friends of mine. A telling off wasn’t something I was going to endure as an adult. I wasn’t a naughty child! Some years later I met my husband on a major online dating site and we’re very happy and well suited. He’s agnostic but open minded, very curious, asks loads of questions about God, respects my faith and is happy for me to pray for him/ with him at times, especially if facing a difficult situation. I don’t enforce my views on him but we have plenty of discussions. There’s respect and also a lot of humour! I believe God helped bring him into my life. We lived together before we were married and didn’t experience any angry lightning bolts from the sky...! Would you consider ‘widening the net’ one day, so to speak? You could meet someone who doesn’t have exactly the same beliefs as you but has so much love to give Personally I think the church needs to move on and stop being so uptight and controlling about people’s private lives. I place more weight on the gospels and Jesus’ actual teachings than the rest of the NT. A friend of mine was married to a Christian who ended up being physically and emotionally abusive. As you know, just because there’s a ‘Christian’ label, it doesn’t mind they’re a good ‘un Sorry for the long ramble, I know it’s just my experience but thought I’d share so you know you’re not alone having the thoughts that you do. Keep looking onwards and upwards to Him

That was my experience and the men were so awful because they could have their pick. There were so many attractive women in comparison

I married out of the church in the end but DH is on the fence but not anti itms

Surely it's just between you and god op? If you meet someone and fall in love and are committed, is that not enough?
You're right to put your kids first for the foreseeable but surely god won't want you to be lonely and miserable?
I know loads of good Christians who've had sex outside of marriage. Meh.

@woodhill exactly! It was very sad to see a good proportion of the many lovely, attractive women struggle to meet someone because of what the church imposed on them, and guys be skittish and mess them around. It was cruel.

Put it this way OP, I wouldn’t bother living my current life on the back of any faith that says, sex before marriage is forbidden. I’d take my chances and hope I was a ‘good enough’ person to still get in to heaven!

Live for the moment. You’re not hurting anyone. To add, to find someone that doesn’t believe in sex before marriage in this day and age will be quite difficult. It puts pressure on your relationship from the start.

If someone followed such religious views then with all due respect, marrying someone that’s been divorced wouldnt be encouraged.

Live your life as you please OP. There’s no promises of any type of afterlife so you may as well live the life you know for sure you do have right now.

Good luck finding Mr Right

klaerntrapetor, no, I simply correct ignorance when I spot it!
I’m very happy to engage in debate about my Christian faith, and MN has a good range of differing views, often argued with intelligence and good humour.
But if one wishes to attack God, one needs to get one’s facts right or expect to have one’s argument shot down by His followers!
Wanderlusto, thank you for coming to my defence. I appreciate it.

It is possible to find happiness in a second marriage as a Christian. My DSis had an abusive first marriage, which broke up in 2003. She remained single for a couple of years and then tried online dating. She initially tried Christian agencies, but then tried others. She eventually met her now DH on one of the others sites; he was a Christian and divorced like her. He also had a nine year old DS, and my DSis became a very loving stepmum to him. She and her DH have also had 3 DC of their own.

So you never know who you might meet; my DSis really did meet her soulmate. It's also very much worth it, even if you're not looking for marriage (which I can understand, as you have DC), as there will be a lot of other people who feel the same as you.

As for the no sex outside marriage rule, the majority of churches have become much more relaxed about this.

And tbh, I've become rather cynical about this subject as I've found that some of the strictest churches I know have actually protected child abusers from being prosecuted. They guilt trip victims and their mothers into believing that they're somehow responsible, and that if they report it, they'll bring shame on the church. (This happened to a friend of mine a couple of years ago, so unfortunately it still happens.)

So there really is a lot of hypocrisy around the subject of sex, sadly.

I think you need to think and pray on it and decide what feels right to you. Only God knows what is in your heart.

Yes the 'church' is big on No Sex before marriage but it a personal choice.

Plus, you don't know how you will feel in the future if you meet someone that you fall for you might find that marriage isn't so scary.
Though at the end of the day you have to do what is right for you. There is no right or wrong answer to this.

[quote bestguesstimate]@woodhill exactly! It was very sad to see a good proportion of the many lovely, attractive women struggle to meet someone because of what the church imposed on them, and guys be skittish and mess them around. It was cruel.[/quote]
There was a book written by an author called Joyce Huggett about Sex before marriage and I remember being 17 and she looked about 60 (probably not) and my friends and I crying with laughter about it, you know what you are like as teens

I remember going to one youth group and the leader was better looking than all the nerdy men/teens there😊

@Wanderlusto what does eating pork have to do with anything? We have a new covenant being Xmas and not Jewish! I would recommend some of the Christian dating apps.