this is emotional abuse, right?

[irishoak]

I've lurked on mumsnet over the years, but never posted, and tbh I don't even have kids, but this has always seemed like a place where women were supportive and so...I've come to the realization over the past few months that my husband is very abusive. He got a (preliminary I suppose) diagnosis of BPD about a month ago and it's just been non-stop since then. The past week I've started talking to counsellors online and the women's aid phoneline...last night was pretty much the nail in the coffin for us, and today he's trying to sort out welfare and somewhere else to live, but he's just....idk half the time he's so sorry, he just wants my forgiveness, the other half it's not his fault, maybe he's autistic, I'm as bad as him cos sometimes I lose my temper and call him names back, etc etc.

I just walked into the room where he was calling his friend and he just seemed so...idk cheerful, and his friend had a girlfriend once apparently who has BPD oh but actually later they said autism, so it must be that and not his fault! So now I'm back in the bedroom, trying to get my head together to concentrate on work (I'm so behind, so so behind), and I just want....idk, validation I guess, that he is abusive, and that it's not just me being unfeeling.

Things he's said to me over the past month:
I'm a fucking liar, I ruin the lives of everyone around me with my criticism and negativity, I fuck everything up for him, i'm a hypocritical c**t, I only care about money (he's not worked for the vast majority of the time we've been together, I pay for everything), I am mean cos I don't give him extra money for weed every month beyond the money he asks for, I've got no friends, I've got a warped idea of friendship, the only people that talk to me are my family and they're just as bad as me, I'm so fucking stupid, and these are just what I can remember off the top of my head.

And then, when he calms down after screaming all this at me, that I should know by now after 3 years of marriage that he doesn't mean these things and so I shouldn't be hurt by them and should realize what he's trying to say.

I'm sorry you're experiencing this OP, yes, this is emotional abuse. Diagnosis or not, it is in no way acceptable to say those things to someone you are supposed to love and respect. I'm so glad to hear that you recognise this and are speaking with trained professionals to protect your mental wellbeing. Have they confirmed that this is emotional abuse too?

To add, raging and then begging for forgiveness is an abusive cycle in itself - it places all blame on you for his issues and then all responsibility on you to resolve the situation by giving forgiveness for his abusive behaviour.

A BPD spouse is a rough ride. How do you see the future? You know that he won't change and it will all be your fault. I was in your position and it became impossible to live with. Verbal abuse, tantrums,paranoia.
My whole life revolved around him as I'm sure yours does too and all to no avail, it made him even more hostile and a " victim".
It is destructive and abusive, treatment is almost non existant for BPD, its resistant to a lot of therapy .It is abuse and he thinks he has a free pass to do it, as he is ill. You cant save him, only yourself.He will guilt trip and manipulate you so be ready.

Tbh he can 'oh poor me and my mental health' all he wants but its not an excuse to abuse you.

Get the hell outa there asap.

In the simplest terms if you are so awful why is he with you? Why wouldn't he just end the marriage and find someone else.

So yes it is abusive. I don't know anything about BPD but I couldn't be a relationship with someone who spoke to me the way he speaks to you.

Also MN is a place for everyone, you don't need to be a parent. And as you do not have children with this man it is easier to leave as you won't have to co-parent with him.

You deserve better than this. I really want you to read a MN post that was written in 2009, it was so epic that MN made it a sticky at the top of the relationships board and I wish more people read it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/698029-Right-listen-up-everybody

Yes 100% abusive
By BPD do you mean bipolar disorder or borderline personality disorder? Either way it's no excuse to abuse you.
Stay strong and keep him away. You don't deserve this life.

OP I used to tie myself
Into knots trying to figure out why ex was like he was
Was he depressed
Was he addicted
Was he bereaved
Did he have BPD
And so on

It was only finally when i did the freedom program it lifted the scales

He was abusive , and it was damaging my MH and that of the kids

You are not his emotional pinching ball

He is emotionally abusive. Also - why doesn’t he work? Sounds like he’s financially abusive too. Abusers often rely on alleged MH issues to excuse their nastiness but it’s bollocks - there are huge numbers of people with MH issues who wouldn’t dream of treating their loved ones in that way.

Women are not rehab centres for broken men. He’s deeply nasty to you when he wants to be and he lives off you. Do you want children? Because he sounds like he would be a shit person to have children with. He’s abusive to you and he doesn’t work, he just sponges off you all the time. It really sounds like you would be better off without him.

BPD is no excuse to abuse someone. I have BPD and wouldn't ever speak to anyone the way he speaks to you.

He's using it as an excuse.

@Mrsmummy90

BPD is no excuse to abuse someone. I have BPD and wouldn't ever speak to anyone the way he speaks to you.

He's using it as an excuse.

^^ THIS

He is choosing to hurt you, every time. Plenty of people with BPD don't choose to do this, and plenty of people without it do.

I think BPD refers to Borderline personality disorder rather than bipolar. I've had experience of both...you cant try to " fix" him.

Thank you everyone, it really meant a lot to wake up to these messages, as I went to bed so sad. Yesterday evening he was telling me about his progress in finding somewhere else (although it seems like a homeless hostel is the only option at the mo), and he made dinner and told me how much he'll miss me but he knows he can't keep doing this to me, and then he got down the dog's advent calendar (silly I know!) to give her that and I just couldn't stop crying...we had some really good times together at the beginning, and I love all the little couple rituals and things, it made me so sad to think of him living alone somewhere and the dog missing him...

But then at the end of the conversation and the tears (both of us) he got distracted and I could see he was messaging his weed dealer, and yeah, that's the parts I need to remind myself of. Not the things he says about missing me and how good I've been to him and can he still see the dog sometimes. The night before last he was screaming that he can't wait to live on his own and smoke weed all day and fuck whoever he wants. Those are the parts I need to remind myself of.

@ReindeerAntlerLights thank you so much for that link, think I might print it out to remind myself of it all the time. and the amount of comments....it's so nice to know I'm not alone, but so fucking sad too, y'know?

@Dery we were living abroad for a few years where I was the only one with a proper work visa. I paid for him to study instead. he used to say how grateful he was for the chance, and how when we got back to europe and he could work he wanted to give me the chance for a few years off too, so I could figure out what I liked doing. but now we're here, and suddenly he doesn't want to get a job, he doesn't want to work for anyone else, etc.

@AlicebytheSea exactly - he hates that I flinch when he comes near or raises his voice, he says he liked that I was independent and stood up to him...but I'm like this now because of him. me being like this only makes it worse, but I don't know how else I was meant to be after all of this?

@irishoak I have never been in a horrifically abusive relationship, I have been in ones where the man was controlling about what I could wear and who I could talk to but luckily those were the teen years and I still lived with my parents. Then I had boyfriends who just didn't really care that much about me.

Then I met Dh, who was kind and thoughtful, caring, sincere, open with how he was feeling. I feel that the timing was right because I realised this isn't about there being a load of shit men, this was about me realising I was worth more. That I should have told all the previous ones to just fuck off. I am the classic daughter of a shit father.

Dh and I have been married for 21 years. I love him more today than I ever have. That is why I tell people don't waste your years in a terrible relationship. Seriously it is better to be alone than in an abusive one.

Re him talking about leaving, he is wanting you to beg him to stay, I would help him pack. Think how much less stressful your every day will be without him. Also you won't be funding his weed habit.

You need to write yourself a list of why this relationship is bad and every time you wobble re-read it. What Dery said is very true

Women are not rehab centres for broken men

Give yourself the best Christmas present you can, a life without him.

I bet you dont recognise the person you've become, confused, defensive,always waiting for him to be on the attack.
My ex would literally think something,put 2 and 2 together,make 100 and be angry with me, I'd be totally wrong footed. Its hopeless .You cant behave anyway at all that will please him so stop trying. These men aren't rational,empathic or logical, so none of those approaches work.

@AlicebytheSea yep, he's totally got my head in a spin again just now. I would never say I was a perfect partner, but his reply now is always that I have said some horrible things to him too. And I have - but it's not the norm for me, I've never been like this before, while he's admitted all his relationships have had similar problems because of him. He just told me he thought it was really hard for him how I forced him to tell the truth about cheating on me before we got married...except I didn't force him, I only found out by going through his phone after months of feeling suspicious, years after the cheating had happened. And even then, for months he'd promise me he'd told me everything, except no wait, he hadn't mentioned this and this and that, to the point where I still don't know if I've got the whole truth.

Does he believe the things he says? Does he really believe I've been so awful to him? Does he even know he's manipulating me?

Yes, he does believe all those things,he has such a fragile ego and will be a butterfly about his own feelings but an elephant around yours. He will portray himself as the victim every time, and cast you as the " abuser" when you retaliate. He might pretend to apologise ( watch out for the " I'm sorry you feel that way" fake apology) but will also tell you you triggered him.

Theres a great informative chap on YouTube called Richard Grannon. Take a look at narcissm, toxic relationships,trauma bonds. Sadly you are going to be ticking them off.

Does he believe the things he says? Does he really believe I've been so awful to him? Does he even know he's manipulating me?

It doesn't matter. It sounds simplistic but it's one of the best things my counsellor said to me years ago.

It doesn't matter why he is emotionally abusive, working that out shouldn't be your focus.

It does matter why you are accepting it. That's what you need to focus on and you can't do that while you're still with him.

You need to end the relationship and do some hard work around why you've stayed with him despite this abuse. I don't say that in an accusatory way, I say it so you can work through your own behaviour to avoid being in an abusive relationship again

I agree , I stopped
Wondering out why my ex was abusive
I literally don’t care

I also think I’ll be single for life now and I’m totally fine with that

The weed will have more to do with this than you realise OP, not that it's in any way an excuse but his behaviour is very familiar to me and it reeks (pun intended) of weed addict. It may well be exacerbating an existing MH issue and/or he's using it to self medicate but regardless, he has no chance of getting better while he's still using so you will be well rid when he goes.

I'm not saying this because I'm anti-weed btw, I'm a smoker myself but have spent enough time around other smokers to know the effects it can have if it causes problems, and it undoubtedly does for some people. He's like any addict essentially, his primary relationship is with weed, not you and your relationship will never be functional as a result.

My advice is push on and let him move out, he will only ever drag you down but you won't see it til he's gone, he's sucked you too far into his shitstorm for you to see until you're clear of it. Yes it will feel weird to begin with, there will be things you miss but it's amazing how quickly the new routines you'll establish will begin to feel normal. And there will be a massive weight lifted and lots of things you'll notice that are better/easier without him, you will be able to breathe again

thank you to everyone for replying - it has been so good to be able to vent a bit on here and ask all the questions going round in my head. sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind. I ended up crying this afternoon thinking of how he's going to live when he moves out...

I don't know if he fully gets the reality of it, tbh. He doesn't have a job, so he is trying to claim welfare...trying to get a housing allowance...we live in rural Ireland and he is an immigrant, residence permit depends on marriage to me and is up for renewal in March, but he gets angry and swears he won't go back to his home country. What's going to happen to him? the thought of him in a homeless shelter breaks my heart, but he can't stay here forever. he says maybe when he gets his own place we can see how things go, we can't get divorced for another 2 years at least anyway, so he says things can change a lot in that time...he engages with doctors and has started therapy and medication and everything this year, but of course, access to all that is reliant on living here and being married to me.

but i can't put up with more of this in the hope that one day things might be better. i'm an empty shell these days. I went back to the UK to visit family for a few weeks in teh summer and felt....like I was my old self again. says it all really.

@Weirdfan weed definitely adds to it - when he doesn't have any the mood is beyond tense. as he doesn't have a job, obviously it's me that pays for it all, and he flipped out at me the other day because I never give him extra money beyond what amount he specifies to "spoil himself". He told me too that smoking weed is his obsession, his driving force...when I said how sad that made me feel he laughed and said, what did I expect it to be, making me happy? he's refused to engage in an addiction programme the mental health team recommended, as a "political stance", as weed isn't legalised.

@AlicebytheSea thank you, I'll check it out. I'm sure it'll be depressing to watch, but I know I need to wake up and shake myself out of this.

@youvegottenminuteslynn wise words from your counsellor...I've never been in a relationship this bad before, but my other boyfriends were definitely not the greatest either. I thought I'd done the work, figured myself out, was independent and single for 6 years before I met my husband...but nope! I can't do this to myself again.

I dont think you will find it depressing tbh. It may be a lightbulb moment, and it will confirm what you knew all along. I found his videos also helped me realise that I wasnt going crazy, and like so many other smart,independent women who have been manipulated into a relationship like this. I thought I was stupid and the only one.

Another tough couple of days, so I just came on here to get some of it off my chest again.

Yesterday went between really sad (going to the supermarket and seeing couples getting stuff for Christmas, buying food for a Christmas that I don't know if I'll be having alone, or maybe in some horrible tense stalemate) and fighting. I know I'm more defensive and panicky than is reasonable in my reactions these days, but that gets used against me, rather than being understood by him as the result of years of his sudden anger. I got upset and cried yesterday and he kept calling me hysterical, which I didn't like, but I was too upset to get him to understand why. This morning I tried to explain why I didn't like it, but it just set him off again - telling me I'm not a feminist, I don't understand the meaning of the word hysterical, etc etc. This has been something he's said a few times recently, that I'm not a feminist and he is, because I ask him what he wants me to do all the time. I ask him because I'm scared, I want to avoid conflict, everything will surely go better if I do what he wants. What kind of feminist husband has a wife that flinches when they raise their voice? What kind of feminist calls their wife all these names?

I've been trying to read more about BPD, trying to figure out how much treatment could help him, how much of his behavior is because of that. But now he's just taken to calling himself a madman and saying no one will listen to the ramblings of a madman, and he's going to take responsibility for himself by moving into a homeless shelter.

I'm hoping it's okay to use this post like a bit of a journal...I feel so turned around sometimes, i don't know if what I say is right, or what he says...it just helps to get it out of my own head.

The fact you don't have DC makes it easier for you to never have to see him again. What is his reason for not working, I have read the above and don't understand how he doesn't want to work. Isn't he ashamed of himself? I don't want to ask where he gets the money for weed. Does he have any claim on your property. Your life will be so much better without this loser dragging you down.

It's your thread OP, use it however it helps you most. I wish I could get over to you how much he's mangling your head, the ramblings of a madman is not far wrong and I know how much it twists your mind and makes you question reality and yourself. That's why this screams weed addict to me, that disordered, arrogant, illogical nonsense he spouts is textbook ime, as is the martyr act. It's really hard to see it clearly when you're living it but you'll know exactly what I mean when he's gone and you can think straight again. Please, please let him go OP, I know what you're afraid of but he's a grown man and you are not responsible for him