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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Is this ok or not? DH and counsellor.

121 replies

Fantasisa · 08/12/2020 16:27

DH and I are separating. He thinks I'm narcissistic and I disagree and think a few choice things about him. We cannot agree and so we've agreed to divorce.

Now, I've been having counselling since the summer and he keeps saying if only I had the 'right' kind of counselling for NPD then we would stand a chance - not that I'm begging for one, we are both coming to terms with the reality of what the split means for us as a family. He has now said he should speak to my counsellor so he can fill her in on what life is really like living with me.

She, predictably, does not think that is necessary and wants to know what I think. On the face of this, is this an ok suggestion by DH? I cannot see things clearly anymore despite the excellent and expensive counselling!

OP posts:
tinselfest · 08/12/2020 17:49

[quote Fantasisa]@picklemewalnuts I also think he believes what he says and no one he has in his life apart from me contradicts him. As it is a get out of jail card for him - but my therapist doesn't sound convinced. 'We don't know what he really thinks, only what he is telling you'.

This is really helpful, everyone, thank you. It is helping me breathe and stay focused.[/quote]
There is only one abusive person in your relationship, and it isn't you. He is trying to invade the one safe space you have, and abuse you there too.

Don't let him anywhere near your counsellor and don't listen to any of the crap he is spouting. The sessions you have with your counsellor are for you and your feelings. They are not to try and second-guess the difference between what he is telling you and what he thinks. You are separating, so what goes on between you and your counsellor has fuck all to do with him.

GoodbyePorpoiseSpit · 08/12/2020 17:50

Sorry: seeing your counsellor. Yes to getting one of his own.

OverTheRubicon · 08/12/2020 17:50

If a woman came on here and said my DH is a narcissist, I'm trying to save things, I wanted to see a joint counsellor but he wanted to do it separately. We did, his counsellor only hears his side of the story and it's making the situation even worse, I just want to talk them once too and share how it feels from my perspective...

People might well try to dissuade them, but would they immediately tell the OP 'no way, actually YOU'RE the narc'? If anything, I imagine they'd get a lot of sympathy, especially because of him declining joint counselling (as the OP did).

It may well be that the original OP is the hard done by one, but I truly don't understand how so.many posters feel ready and willing to diagnose gaslighting with zero background.

Fwiw my grandmother almost exactly fit the descriptors for NPD but also had close friends and 3 of 4 kids adoring her, she chose how to act to others, so whether either op or her DH have.mates is not a guarantee of anything.

GwendolineMarysLaces · 08/12/2020 17:54

My NPD MIL tried to see DHs counsellor, simply because she couldn't cope with the idea that she might be being criticised in their sessions and wanted to put forward 'her side of the story'. In any case, this is just further justification for your decision to LTB.

2bazookas · 08/12/2020 17:59

DH is not her client, you are. I can't imagine why your private counsellor would even consider his weird proposal.

Counsellors are not medically trained, not psychiatrists, and not qualified to diagnose personality disorders.

Your DH is barking up the wrong tree. Or just barking.

Original poster
Fantasisa · 08/12/2020 18:01

@OverTheRubicon I agree which is why I'm going round and round in my head at the moment saying 'how do I know he isn't right'.

Things didn't get better once I started counselling because I don't agree with his take on our interactions this year. I obviously haven't given details but it is why my OP is focused specifically on whether wanting to speak to my counsellor is acceptable/normal.

I'm also trying not to drip feed either.

OP posts:
ThriceThriceThice · 08/12/2020 18:05

@OverTheRubicon

If a woman came on here and said my DH is a narcissist, I'm trying to save things, I wanted to see a joint counsellor but he wanted to do it separately. We did, his counsellor only hears his side of the story and it's making the situation even worse, I just want to talk them once too and share how it feels from my perspective...

People might well try to dissuade them, but would they immediately tell the OP 'no way, actually YOU'RE the narc'? If anything, I imagine they'd get a lot of sympathy, especially because of him declining joint counselling (as the OP did).

It may well be that the original OP is the hard done by one, but I truly don't understand how so.many posters feel ready and willing to diagnose gaslighting with zero background.

Fwiw my grandmother almost exactly fit the descriptors for NPD but also had close friends and 3 of 4 kids adoring her, she chose how to act to others, so whether either op or her DH have.mates is not a guarantee of anything.

I would ask her why she is so invested in her DH's counselling as they have agreed to separate?

I would explain that her DH's counselling is not the place for her to expand her views, it's about a relationship between client and therapist and that yes, if he is a narcissist it will probably be of limited use to him, but that's not really her concern.

I would say that I find it very odd that she is investing time in this rather than her own future wellbeing and that maybe she sees herself as a rescuer or a victim.

I really don't think this can be reversed in the way you have put it.

ravenmum · 08/12/2020 18:06

@Fantasisa NPD is extremely rare, and if you suffered from it you would likely have noticed something was different about your life, compared with other people. You'd have been aware you were special for quite some time, and know that other people sometimes couldn't cope with that. You wouldn't be worrying about whether it meant you might be a bad person, as you would know you were a great person. Really, really great. Greater than any other president.

Original poster
Fantasisa · 08/12/2020 18:10

@ravenmum The MSM does have it in for me so maybe there's something in this.

@ThriceThriceThice I think he saw himself as my rescuer for some parts of our relationship (older man dynamic, I was disentangling myself from a relationship when we met etc) and now it has switched to him saying 'I am YOUR victim, Fantasisa'

It is never his fault when he doesn't get on with people at work etc either.

OP posts:
WhatsAParlay · 08/12/2020 18:23

God he sounds exactly like my ex. Bottom line is that your future doesn't involve him and therefore you don't need his input into your counselling. If he doesn't think your counselling is "working" then tell him not to worry, you won't be in each others' lives for much longer and that you and you alone are responsible for your wellbeing. Then grey rock him. Just don't listen, don't rise to his ridiculous remarks, respond only in a disinterested and boring way. And get out as fast as you can.

ThriceThriceThice · 08/12/2020 18:56

It is never his fault when he doesn't get on with people at work etc either

Ooh - that sounds familiar. I can't tell you how many completely unreasonable colleagues my ex had, who simply could not recognise his expertise, talent, ability to be right about everything - I tell you the man was surround by idiots!

nancybotwinbloom · 08/12/2020 19:04

Absolutely not.

This is your counselling not his. For your needs.

If you are a narc like he says then you wouldn't be going for counselling because you'd believe you didn't need it.

RandomMess · 08/12/2020 19:04

It's him not you...

"Nope, counsellor will not see you."

Your counsellor is asking what you think because you need to refund your sense of self!

Cavagirl · 08/12/2020 19:08

Aren't there two issues here?

  1. your marriage is over, you're getting divorced. This is firm and agreed? Your husband doesn't believe there's a way to salvage it and you don't either?

  2. you're having counselling which may or may not surface other issues (eg NPD if your STBexH is suddenly a professional psychologist...sounds doubtful)

Why does he think he is involved with point 2? Your marriage is over. What does your counselling have to do with him?

Or is he just "being helpful?" Hmm

Wannabegreenfingers · 08/12/2020 19:34

Definitely protecting. My ex did this as well as gaslighting and stone walling. It was my counsellor and after that my friends, when I was abke to open up that pointed out he was the controller and am arse not me.

Original poster
Fantasisa · 08/12/2020 19:37

The stonewalling is awful - the amount of events at the school that we have argued before (couldn't tell you the details of the argument) and he has refused to interact with me there - sports day/leavers assembly etc. I would at least have plastered a fake smile on. It is so humiliating.

OP posts:
HolyBuckets · 08/12/2020 19:37

He sounds hilarious. They always fall out with people at work too, and it's never their fault. 🚩🚩🚩

tobedtoMNandfart · 08/12/2020 20:00

You doubt yourself because you are absolutely conditioned to.

Craftycorvid · 08/12/2020 20:00

If a client told me their ex partner had suggested this, my response would be ‘fuck, no’ (obviously phrased a little less bluntly, but you get the picture). Your therapist sounds made of the right stuff, by the way. I’m just wondering if since you’ve been seeing her your confidence and self esteem have grown? And that this has been noticed by your ex? It’s not uncommon to hear from clients in abusive relationships (or hopefully on their way out of them) that their partner has been rubbishing their therapy/therapist. Trying to muscle in on the therapy feels like a version of that.

Original poster
Fantasisa · 08/12/2020 20:19

@Craftycorvid I don't think I'd be getting divorced if I wasn't having counselling. Because all the ways he usually gets things back on track by doing after a run in I've held firm.

I haven't told him a thing my counsellor has said to me but he has said it obviously isn't working as I haven't improved! Which means, IMO, that he doesn't just get to suit himself all the time without me having expectations of him - house stuff/DC stuff etc.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 08/12/2020 20:26

😂😂😂😂😂

So he thinks you need to change so he can do whatever he wants etc and counselling hasn't achieved that.

Best laugh I've had in ages!

Original poster
Fantasisa · 08/12/2020 20:30

So I ask him in JUST the right tone to pretty please do a bit more around the house that kind of thing...

OP posts:
RandomMess · 08/12/2020 20:40

How long until you can live separately? I'd be marking off the days on the calendar...

Original poster
Fantasisa · 08/12/2020 20:45

I am. I think I will see things more clearly then too.

It is likely to be months - we have to sell the house first Sad

OP posts:
Notthe9oclocknewsathon · 08/12/2020 20:48

[quote Fantasisa]@tinyvulture I too have received long letters detailing where I go wrong and how I should address my behaviour. Sent to me at work on his day off Hmm

But WHY do I doubt myself? Surely all this stuff has some truth in it for them to latch onto?[/quote]
That really isn’t normal behaviour on his part.