Is this ok or not? DH and counsellor.

[Fantasisa]

DH and I are separating. He thinks I'm narcissistic and I disagree and think a few choice things about him. We cannot agree and so we've agreed to divorce.

Now, I've been having counselling since the summer and he keeps saying if only I had the 'right' kind of counselling for NPD then we would stand a chance - not that I'm begging for one, we are both coming to terms with the reality of what the split means for us as a family. He has now said he should speak to my counsellor so he can fill her in on what life is really like living with me.

She, predictably, does not think that is necessary and wants to know what I think. On the face of this, is this an ok suggestion by DH? I cannot see things clearly anymore despite the excellent and expensive counselling!

I am not at all surprised that he has only done 6 sessions with his counsellor - I would imagine any reflection on himself (rather than finger pointing at others) caused him great discomfort. Unable to reflect, take personal responsibility to change and grow.

He sounds v controlling and un-boundaried.

Because@PrincessNutNutRoast, he now accepts that it is too late to save our relationship but apparently he wants me to be happy so feels him telling the counsellor the real deal is how I would then get the proper help I so obviously need.

That's so nice of him!

Where do these blokes get off? He needs to let go, tell him to get off your case. How soon can he move out?

This is the problem with diagnosis by internet, everyone is a specialist and everyone gets a diagnosis!

OP work with your counsellor for what is best for you. She doesn't need his input to help you with that.

@Bellringer It has been months already and looks like it will be months again before we can sort it. Even though there is no animosity, it is still not a nice way to live and I just want to fast forward.

@Hayeahnobut Exactly but for me, the actual tag for his behaviour doesn't matter. It is more how he makes me feel. It doesn't matter if I think he has narcissistic tendencies it matters what I think of the dynamic in the relationship/house and my role to play in it but also what is squarely at his door.

Although I suppose it helps to recognise the behaviour and spot the patterns.

No, your future happiness and fulfilment is your own business now. Kindly thank him and advise that he moves on, it is no longer his job to try to fix you, he can thank his lucky stars that you are separating and your psychological well-being is nothing to do with him 🙄
How disrespectful, controlling and borderline abusive to try to elbow into your safe space which is about negotiating your way through the end of your relationship and coming out the other side. Of course you may have to face some unsettling truths about yourself in this process but you and your counsellor will get to those just fine by yourselves.

It's true that to diagnose someone with NPD is a longer process, but it's normally pretty clear if people have narcissistic traits - they can be charming initially, but before long you recognise that they are grandiose, thin-skinned, talk about their achievements and feel angry if they do not receive special treatment.

The fact that you bring 'my Dh would say this' into a session (consider and value other people's opinions) and that your counsellor has had to encourage you to talk about your feelings and needs (rather than you demanding they are met) indicates to me that it is unlikely you are a narcissist.

'you don't need to see any medical professionals' is therapist speech for you're not a fucking narcissist.

But if you are still in doubt, look at the checklist below and see if you recognise yourself or better still ask a good friend what they like about your personality and what they find more difficult

www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

The thing is, @LionLily, she isn't making me face unsettling truths. She is exploring how and why I have been able to operate in this dynamic for so long. I probably do have some unsettling truths to get to though.

@Sssloou Exactly why I knew joint counselling wouldn't work, he would just walk out if he felt things weren't going his way.

Why is he so keen to 'expose' you to your counsellor? What goes on in those sessions is between you and them. The counselling is also for you, not for him. He sounds very controlling and like he wants to alienate you.

He wants to control your narrative, he can’t bear the thought that you may be exposing some of his traits so wants to “fix” what you’ve told your counselor and he can be seen as blameless. Definitely a big fat no!

Having a narc mum, the reason he is convincing is he believes it. DM can't understand why everyone else is so unreasonable, and why she doesn't always get just what she wants. She can't quite grasp that other people want different things, see things differently, have different priorities. So in her eyes they are very unreasonable to spoil everything by not doing what she thinks they should do.

Your husband thinks it's unreasonable that the therapist doesn't see you the way he does. You are unreasonable because you don't do what he thinks you should, and don't see him as he sees himself.

DM can be charming and good company, in public. That's how she knows how to behave. In personal relationships she's awful. Demanding, needy, nasty as sin when she doesn't get her own way.

She find people 'so disappointing'.

He knows you are telling your therapist the kind of person that he really is not who he thinks he is. He will be 100% uncomfortable with that and will want to take that power back by putting the spotlight on you. Most people live with the uncomfortable feelings out of respect for the other person but for some people image is all that matters.

"He also had weekly sessions for six weeks with his own counsellor but has stopped now."
"received long letters detailing where I go wrong and how I should address my behaviour. Sent to me at work on his day off"

These two sentences say it all really. To me it doesn't sound like an innocent suggestion from a person who doesn't understand how therapy works. If he's smart enough to come up with a diagnosis, then he should be smart enough to know that therapy doesn't work like that. He can't just interfere in your relationship with your therapist.

He says it is so I can 'get the help I so desperately need' and my best chance of counselling working!
You've agreed to divorce. Whether or not your counselling works is none of his business any more.
Obviously, what he actually wants to do is be right, and get your counsellor to say he is right (about being a victim/generally everything). But even if he was really concerned about you getting a diagnosis, it would still be absolutely none of his business any more.

How does he know how your counsellor works and whether she is (in his eyes) suitable? If it's because you discuss your therapy sessions with him, then that's giving him ammunition to continue both with your character assassination and with his insistence on giving you the benefit of his superior therapeutic skills. He thinks he's more suited to assessing you than a qualified therapist. He is not.
You sound like you have your head screwed on right, keep calm and carry on.

@ThriceThriceThice they can be charming initially, but before long you recognise that they are grandiose, thin-skinned, talk about their achievements and feel angry if they do not receive special treatment

This sums him up and without going into too much detail, his perceived insufficient level of attention on him this year during a tricky time for him (cos you know, global pandemic) has led him to declare me the worst wife ever.

Exactly what MagnoliaBeige says - so no, just no, and fuck those letters too..... Bin them don't even bother to read them

@picklemewalnuts I also think he believes what he says and no one he has in his life apart from me contradicts him. As it is a get out of jail card for him - but my therapist doesn't sound convinced. 'We don't know what he really thinks, only what he is telling you'.

This is really helpful, everyone, thank you. It is helping me breathe and stay focused.

@ThriceThriceThice I actually remembered what else my counsellor said 'think very carefully before you follow his advice to seek additional help' - I think she was worried I'd be medicated and popped in an attic like the women I read about in gender studies at uni!

You could just telll him that you discussed it with your counsellor and she says that the method for diagnosing narcissism does not involve a person's ex-partner telling a relationship counsellor what they think. It involves questionnaires, tests etc. carried out by a specialist in personality disorders.

Fantasisa - the worst wife ever! Gosh - do they hand out awards for that?
He sounds like a 3-year old.

Hold tight - you will get through this and life will be so much better when he is no longer in it.

Trust your therapist, see as many friends and do as much as possible outside of the home (I know it's tricky at the moment). Have you heard about 'grey-rock'? This technique got me through the year I had to live with my ex in the family home before he moved out. Get out of the habit of confiding and sharing with him, he will only use it against you.

www.healthline.com/health/grey-rock

@FantasticButtocks - Because in his words my therapy 'doesn't seem to be working, you are getting more entrenched' ie not agreeing with him!

@ThriceThriceThice - didn't you know? I had to hand mine back so it could go out to OP this year. My narcissism was diagnosed by my exh's mistress, who had never met me.

Hold tight OP you are nearly free of h to is obvious pillock. Hard no to him se