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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do I respond to this? CF or am I oversensitive?

130 replies

ShowMeThePainting · 08/12/2020 13:01

Brace yourself, this is going to be VERY LONG! Have changed places and names.

Back story
I was living in Bristol, and I met a girl - let's call her Emily. On paper we were meant to be friends, but although we tried meeting up a few times, there was always something off. She was a musician, and spent a lot of time talking about her open relationship with her long-term partner of 10 years, David, and how amazing it was to be free of social conventions.

One night at the pub, she introduced me to David, also a musician and a painter. Whereas I hadn't clicked with her, I massively hit it off with him, and we became friends. I soon learnt that the person driving the open relationship thing was Emily, not David, and that she was basically always on the lookout for women to set him up with, because her being able to shag other men was dependent on him having women to shag.

David and I became very good friends. We spent a lot of time together, and just really gelled. We had a lot of fun together, and he began pressuring me to get involved with him romantically. Although I was starting to "love him", it's kind of hard to explain - it was more like I developed a very deep-rooted affection and sense of kinship with him, but I wasn't necessarily crazily physically attracted to him, and didn't want a proper relationship with him. So I went with it, out of curiosity but also because I did feel close to him. But along side that, the whole open relationship thing drove me insane. Not because I wanted to be with him, but because I just couldn't stand the hypocrisy of it. It felt like they both wanted the social convention and security of being in a long-term live-in relationship, while also using people without those things to satisfy the "fun factor", while telling us, their "secondary" partners, that there was absolutely no difference between us and their "primary" relationship.

Which was clearly bullshit. A good example was when me and David had planned to do something one night. He came to my house, and she called. It was 10pm. She began crying about how lonely she felt sat at home, because her "secondary" partner had stood her up. After David finished speaking to her, he was really upset and didn't know what to do. I told him I didn't really care about the evening itself, but just wanted to point out that if he did leave to go to her, then clearly he really needed to stop believing his own BS about there being "no difference" between us all. He started crying, and he left to be with her.

While I continued really like David as a friend, I found both of them quite manipulative and deceptive, with right-on principles that didn't actually translate.

End of back story

It was 2016, and this had been going on for six months or so. Finally, I put an end to it, which David wasn't happy about, and kind of tried to continue nagging in me to continue this weird half romantic relationship. I said I wanted us to just stay friends, and anyway, I was going to move to Germany.

On the day I left for Germany, in 2016, he told me he would see me off at the station. He brought with him a painting he had made for me. I was really touched, but I didn't want to take it. It felt like if I did, because things were still ambiguous, it would be like continuing on a romantic thing. So I didn't take it.

2017, time went by, I would come back to the UK for visits and meet up with him, all good, friends.

2018, same. In the summer of 2018, as time had gone by and old wounds had closed, I sent him a message saying - you know that painting you did? Do you still have it? He did. I asked him if he wanted to sell it to me. The reason I wanted to buy it was that I have artists in my family, and I know it's important to support artists you know. Also, I liked the painting. It was painted for me, and it was of a place that meant something to both of us. He said sure. He asked for £300. I wired it that same day, in May 2018 I believe.

Every time I went back to the UK, he would "forget" to bring the painting when we met up. Even when I was there for a few days, and we would meet say on a Friday, and I would remind him, he still wouldn't bring it on the Saturday.

Finally, in 2019, I said - look, would it be easier if you just sent me the painting? That's probably best, it'll mean I won't have to transport it back home by hand, too. He said sure.

Painting never came.

Now in 2020, with the first lockdown, I'm self-employed and income plummeted. I began having to take a very close look at my bank statements, and that prompted the memory of the painting. I began feeling a bit angry about this - it's been two years, I would expect either my money back or the painting?

I began suspecting that SOMETHING was going on - either he'd already sold it, or he had put it on his wall and Emily maybe kicked up a fuss about him taking it down to send to me, or something. Whatever really.

I told him that at this stage, to just forget the painting and give me my money back. He said oh no no no, why don't I send you the painting anyway! I said seriously, just forget about it now. He asked for my bank details. I sent them. A week later he said he couldn't read them properly, could I send a clearer image (????). I did.

Last month he began chatting to me, and asked me if there was anything I wanted to talk about (I told him I'd been going through a hard time). So finally, I sent him this:

"I would like to talk to you about things but honestly I'm also struggling a bit. I don't feel like I should have to work this hard to get back money I initially gave you because I wanted to show my support. I think your tardiness feels disrespectful and that's a shame because it has definitely shifted the dynamic between us which I don't like."

In response, he sent me this:
"Re: the money - I got your email, but I don't have it to send because I'm out of work on universal credit with no savings. I challenge your assumption it's a lack of respect. It was very kind of you to offer support, but your demand for it back went on top of what was already a few hundred of debt. I haven't forgotten and I'll help you when I can..."

Am I being oversensitive in thinking this is quite a manipulative message? I don't know. I'm not sure how the back story and this painting story are connected but they make me feel the same feeling, which is a kind of frustration and anger. I'm not sure why. I just don't think I would have the gall.

To make it even more WHAT...! I saw that he has started a Crowdfunder, he posted on FB asking people to contribute because he and Emily want to make an album.

Am I reading too much into this? His language feels undermining to me, again not sure why. I have been too passive in my life and have recently started being firmer and more direct in my dealings with people, and it's really paying off. So I want to do that if this merits it here. But I also dont want to ruin a friendship by reading too much into it.

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 09/12/2020 08:55

99% of what you wrote is irrelevant
You paid £300 for a painting you dont have and are unlikely to get. You need to decide what to do about that
I very much doubt you will ever get it unfortunately, and avoid “tortured” arty types in the future.

MilerVino · 09/12/2020 09:10

I also dont want to ruin a friendship by reading too much into it.

He was never a friend. I see you've blocked him. Personally I would have treated the whole think as a business transaction, once he started blethering on about how he couldn't help you out. Cold, clinical, I paid for product X which you failed to provide. You now have 10 working days to refund me or provide the product. If you do not do either of these things, I will start a case with the small claims court. But I doubt you'll ever change his opinion of himself or get the money back, so maybe blocking is just the way to go!

GorgonzolaSouffle · 09/12/2020 09:16

Thank goodness you blocked him.

What a twat.

Whitney168 · 09/12/2020 09:28

@ShowMeThePainting

I've thinking about sending him this:

"Hey David, sorry for delay in reply. It's taken me awhile to consider what to say in response to a message that basically reeks of entitlement.

First of all, you can't "challenge" a feeling- it's just how I feel, and you'd do well to accept other people's feelings without attempting to distort them.

Second of all, there was no "demand" on my side - it was a request, two years after I sent you the money, which by the way, wasnt a loan, or a handout. It was payment for something you said you would sell me.

Finally, it's not about "helping me out", it's about paying back money you were happy to take off me in exchange for an item.

What are you going to do about this?"

Jaysus, OP, never mind David and Emily, you get weirder with every post.

Don't bother sending any of this self-important crap, or threats of small claims. He/they don't care and it will just give them a laugh.

You were daft to get involved with them, and dafter still to think there is any benefit in continuing.

Cut your losses in both money and pride, and walk away.

YoniAndGuy · 09/12/2020 09:35

My message would be much shorter.

'I paid you for something which you've avoided supplying to me for three years. Now you won't give back the money. That makes you a thief. A common, shitty little thief. You are not the only one struggling for money. I am too. I need my money back. Now.'

SummerHouse · 09/12/2020 09:47

This is perfect for Judge Rinder.

IrmaFayLear · 09/12/2020 09:52

Judge Judy would just look at the core issue. You paid £300 for goods not received.

You have two options: write off the £300.

Or, short note saying you have an email trail and therefore, on advice from Citizens Advice Bureau (not true, but...) you will be proceeding to small claims court and informing crowdfunding platform of their outstanding debt. I did this with someone and they coughed up instantly . It’s worth a try.

The fact that you clearly still have feelings for this guy is irrelevant.

user1471538283 · 09/12/2020 09:54

I would not apologise for a delay. He has been delaying and continues to do so. I would tell him quite flatly that it was not you helping out or a girt. You paid for a product so you entered into a contract with him and he needs to either send you the painting or your money back by (whatever date you choose) or you will be taking him to the small claims court.

I doubt if you will receive your money or the painting. He is trying to play you so he can pick this up at a later date. Then get rid. They both sound insufferable.

sergeantmajor · 09/12/2020 10:01

There is no smarty-pants wording or hotshot lawyer which will get you either £300 or satisfaction. No more communication with him. Write off the £300. You will not get what you want. Even if you could intimidate him into paying you the £300, it would come with endless strings and hassle. Don't waste a second thought on him, put it behind you, chalk it up to experience. I repeat, no more communication of any sort. I've had dealings with similar characters and this is the only way. Sorry this has happened to you.

Badwill · 09/12/2020 10:03

Ugh. He sounds like one of those crusty "free spirits" who hates capitalism but is happy to take/steal the proceeds of other people's hard work. Knob!

Crowdfunding for a fucking album... What a pair of workshy wankers!

pinbinpin · 09/12/2020 10:07

I am not being mean but you do have to take some responsibility here as well OP. they are clearly unpleasant people but you have also been a bit silly in a) getting involved in their messed up setup to begin with, b) not just accepting the weird parting gift c) staying in touch with these idiots and d) then offering to buy the painting 2 years later!

I think you have to take a look in the mirror as well and ask yourself why you are attracted to this ridiculous drama and this alternative lifestyle crap.

ivfbeenbusy · 09/12/2020 10:09

To be honest I'd write it off as one of life's lessons

You were a bit weird not to accept it at the time so to then "buy" it later is odd

You aren't ever going to see the painting or the money so I'd cut your losses

Cheeseandlobster · 09/12/2020 10:14

I bet this was actually in Brighton op. I met some very similar people there (and lots of lovely people too)

pinbinpin · 09/12/2020 10:22

lots in Bristol (and Reading) as well though! :)

Eckhart · 09/12/2020 10:27

And all other cities.

Tomorrowistomorrow · 09/12/2020 10:42

@category12

" Dear arsehole, I paid you £300 for a painting you have never supplied. It wasn't a gift of money, it wasn't a loan, it was a payment. If you're not prepared to give me the painting or a refund, we will both know exactly what you are. And it's not a friend of mine. "
Dear X ..............as above.

But I would finish it -

I do not want you to "help me out" I want you to pay the money that you owe. You have 28 days -and then I will take further legal action.

Personally I would then not contact him at all and certainly wouldn't bother to get in touch or go for the money. but block him and her on everything. But let him worry about it.

BarefootbyMoonlight · 09/12/2020 10:50

😂 Badwill nail on head. I know a few of this type, easy to have principles while forcing other people to look after you.
One I knew a while ago would laugh at people on benefits buying lottery tickets - “chav tax” snark snark - while having drawers full of tickets and scratchcards afforded only because he was living off someone else’s benefits 😮🤣

I agree with most PP, you can try and recoup the money via non- emotional means or just consider £300 to be how much it cost to get rid off the toxic mess..

If it makes you feel better, imagine them having no luck with it but then keep moving on. I doubt they give you a second thought so don’t waste your thoughts on them.

SpaceOp · 09/12/2020 10:52

You're never getting the money back. And he's awful. I honestly don't know why you are so invested in this so-called friendship.

Pechanga · 09/12/2020 14:00

He's a manipulator & a user and has now turned out to be a thief. He took your money knowing full well he was never going to give you the painting (they he'd probably already sold anyway)

You have kept this toxic pair in your life even though they have used and manipulated you for years.

I know it's tempting to have the last word - tell him exactly what you think of him & his actions and call him out on his bad treatment of you....but you are wasting your breath. He doesn't actually give a shit, He's already fleecing and using new victims (crowdfunding) and people like this never see they're in the wrong - him and Emily are perfect for each other and feed each other's entitlement.

Muckish · 09/12/2020 14:43

Can we all suggest what this famous painting was of?

I incline either to a tumultuous abstract, or to a doleful Stanley Spencer-style double portrait of David and Emily, nude and staring in opposite directions, looking constipated.

Ihateezoflora · 09/12/2020 16:54

Are you sure it wasn't Brighton? This is the most Brighton story I've ever heard

Ihateezoflora · 09/12/2020 16:55

(also, i liked reading this. If you wrote a novel, OP, i'd read it.)

excelledyourself · 09/12/2020 17:30

David sounds like an insufferable moron. And I can't believe he cried and went home to Emily. For someone with the balls to behave like that, and send you that message, he's clearly right under her thumb.

"I'll help you when I can" - wow. Confused

MiddleClassProblem · 09/12/2020 18:19

Brighton would make more sense to getting a train to go to Germany (train to Gatwick).

But then later op says “Germany” so maybe that location is still undecided.

Comeondelicious · 09/12/2020 18:25

I'm sorry for you, but YANBU, the painting was never for sale it was a gift. I bet it's ugly and do you really want it to be hanging somewhere to remind you of this nasty time of yours??
(unless you are trying to sell his mysterious painting through mumsnet...)