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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do I respond to this? CF or am I oversensitive?

130 replies

ShowMeThePainting · 08/12/2020 13:01

Brace yourself, this is going to be VERY LONG! Have changed places and names.

Back story
I was living in Bristol, and I met a girl - let's call her Emily. On paper we were meant to be friends, but although we tried meeting up a few times, there was always something off. She was a musician, and spent a lot of time talking about her open relationship with her long-term partner of 10 years, David, and how amazing it was to be free of social conventions.

One night at the pub, she introduced me to David, also a musician and a painter. Whereas I hadn't clicked with her, I massively hit it off with him, and we became friends. I soon learnt that the person driving the open relationship thing was Emily, not David, and that she was basically always on the lookout for women to set him up with, because her being able to shag other men was dependent on him having women to shag.

David and I became very good friends. We spent a lot of time together, and just really gelled. We had a lot of fun together, and he began pressuring me to get involved with him romantically. Although I was starting to "love him", it's kind of hard to explain - it was more like I developed a very deep-rooted affection and sense of kinship with him, but I wasn't necessarily crazily physically attracted to him, and didn't want a proper relationship with him. So I went with it, out of curiosity but also because I did feel close to him. But along side that, the whole open relationship thing drove me insane. Not because I wanted to be with him, but because I just couldn't stand the hypocrisy of it. It felt like they both wanted the social convention and security of being in a long-term live-in relationship, while also using people without those things to satisfy the "fun factor", while telling us, their "secondary" partners, that there was absolutely no difference between us and their "primary" relationship.

Which was clearly bullshit. A good example was when me and David had planned to do something one night. He came to my house, and she called. It was 10pm. She began crying about how lonely she felt sat at home, because her "secondary" partner had stood her up. After David finished speaking to her, he was really upset and didn't know what to do. I told him I didn't really care about the evening itself, but just wanted to point out that if he did leave to go to her, then clearly he really needed to stop believing his own BS about there being "no difference" between us all. He started crying, and he left to be with her.

While I continued really like David as a friend, I found both of them quite manipulative and deceptive, with right-on principles that didn't actually translate.

End of back story

It was 2016, and this had been going on for six months or so. Finally, I put an end to it, which David wasn't happy about, and kind of tried to continue nagging in me to continue this weird half romantic relationship. I said I wanted us to just stay friends, and anyway, I was going to move to Germany.

On the day I left for Germany, in 2016, he told me he would see me off at the station. He brought with him a painting he had made for me. I was really touched, but I didn't want to take it. It felt like if I did, because things were still ambiguous, it would be like continuing on a romantic thing. So I didn't take it.

2017, time went by, I would come back to the UK for visits and meet up with him, all good, friends.

2018, same. In the summer of 2018, as time had gone by and old wounds had closed, I sent him a message saying - you know that painting you did? Do you still have it? He did. I asked him if he wanted to sell it to me. The reason I wanted to buy it was that I have artists in my family, and I know it's important to support artists you know. Also, I liked the painting. It was painted for me, and it was of a place that meant something to both of us. He said sure. He asked for £300. I wired it that same day, in May 2018 I believe.

Every time I went back to the UK, he would "forget" to bring the painting when we met up. Even when I was there for a few days, and we would meet say on a Friday, and I would remind him, he still wouldn't bring it on the Saturday.

Finally, in 2019, I said - look, would it be easier if you just sent me the painting? That's probably best, it'll mean I won't have to transport it back home by hand, too. He said sure.

Painting never came.

Now in 2020, with the first lockdown, I'm self-employed and income plummeted. I began having to take a very close look at my bank statements, and that prompted the memory of the painting. I began feeling a bit angry about this - it's been two years, I would expect either my money back or the painting?

I began suspecting that SOMETHING was going on - either he'd already sold it, or he had put it on his wall and Emily maybe kicked up a fuss about him taking it down to send to me, or something. Whatever really.

I told him that at this stage, to just forget the painting and give me my money back. He said oh no no no, why don't I send you the painting anyway! I said seriously, just forget about it now. He asked for my bank details. I sent them. A week later he said he couldn't read them properly, could I send a clearer image (????). I did.

Last month he began chatting to me, and asked me if there was anything I wanted to talk about (I told him I'd been going through a hard time). So finally, I sent him this:

"I would like to talk to you about things but honestly I'm also struggling a bit. I don't feel like I should have to work this hard to get back money I initially gave you because I wanted to show my support. I think your tardiness feels disrespectful and that's a shame because it has definitely shifted the dynamic between us which I don't like."

In response, he sent me this:
"Re: the money - I got your email, but I don't have it to send because I'm out of work on universal credit with no savings. I challenge your assumption it's a lack of respect. It was very kind of you to offer support, but your demand for it back went on top of what was already a few hundred of debt. I haven't forgotten and I'll help you when I can..."

Am I being oversensitive in thinking this is quite a manipulative message? I don't know. I'm not sure how the back story and this painting story are connected but they make me feel the same feeling, which is a kind of frustration and anger. I'm not sure why. I just don't think I would have the gall.

To make it even more WHAT...! I saw that he has started a Crowdfunder, he posted on FB asking people to contribute because he and Emily want to make an album.

Am I reading too much into this? His language feels undermining to me, again not sure why. I have been too passive in my life and have recently started being firmer and more direct in my dealings with people, and it's really paying off. So I want to do that if this merits it here. But I also dont want to ruin a friendship by reading too much into it.

OP posts:
JoeCalFuckingZaghe · 08/12/2020 18:20

Justilou's message says it all. Don't pussyfoot around him, he isn't a friend, he is a user.

Sakurami · 08/12/2020 18:22

He's obviously not going to give you the money or the painting and your whole relationship with these two is weird. The best thing to do us to forget about them all, including the money. Think of it this way, you would probably have spent it if you hadn't had given it to him so it doesn't make that much difference.

ramesesmaze · 08/12/2020 19:46

Sounds way too complicated. Write off the money and move on. I know it's tempting to write texts and emails to him in your head, where you are clearly in the right, but David and Emily are both dipshits and you'd do well to forget the whole thing and not get involved with "artists from Bristol" again. And I say that as a Bristolian Grin

Eddielzzard · 08/12/2020 20:05

I think you should respond, if only to put your side across and not let him think his gaslighting has worked yet again. I do like Justilou's response, but also think about what you want to get out of it. Draw a line in the sand? Push for the painting? Push for an actual explanation of what's happened to it? And then take it from there.

ShowMeThePainting · 08/12/2020 20:15

@Eddielzzard

Thanks for making me think about that point - what I want to get out of it. Theres no way I want the painting now, and even the money, I don't actually care.

The reason I put the back story in there is because it all comes down to the same thing: him acting like some sanctimonious right-on prick while (as I see it), manipulating, disrespecting, being entitled.

So what do I want to get out of this? I guess I want him to know that I dont think he is the good person he pretends he is, I want him to know I see through him, and then I want to block him

OP posts:
Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel · 08/12/2020 20:30

Exhausted just reading it. He sounds like a dreadful bore. You were daft to give him the money. Move on, unless you enjoy the continuous drama...

Diverseduvet · 08/12/2020 20:38

So you're not over them yet then?

justilou1 · 09/12/2020 00:55

You’re missing the point entirely. You are legally entitled to make a demand. Feelings are utterly irrelevant. Keep feelings out of it.
Tell him that he accepted £300 of your money for a painting that he has repeatedly failed to provide. Advise him that you do not want the painting now and that you intend to apply to the Small Claims Court to have your money returned.

Twistered · 09/12/2020 01:04

Block him and walk away. That tells him everything

willloman · 09/12/2020 01:16

No don't give him a piece of your mind. Don't give him time of day. Not one single nanosecond more. Find some real friends, worthy of your kind generosity!

Fuckitsstillraining · 09/12/2020 01:30

@justilou1

What Bluebells said... But not as gentle. look David, I’ve been very patient. I gave you £300 in 2017 for a painting that you have repeatedly failed to provide. I have copies of numerous emails and texts from you a) acknowledging receipt of the money. B) repeatedly promising to send the painting, (and assorted excuses) and C) admitting that you haven’t yet sent the painting. Now you send me a message implying that demanding that you either return the money or provide the painting after chasing you for three is ME BEING UNREASONABLE?!?! Your debts are entirely irrelevant to this situation. You have two choices here (which have not changed since the last time I contacted you.) Either send the painting that I paid for, or return the £300 by 25/12/2020, or I will apply to the small claims court to resolve the problem. (And copy every crowdfunding page you set up. Please don’t try to gaslight or manipulate me again.)
This, now please. Just do it, don't think about it, don't give him or her the headspace. They are users and deserve each other, you got sucked in, used and need to move completely.
ladycarlotta · 09/12/2020 01:41

So what do I want to get out of this? I guess I want him to know that I dont think he is the good person he pretends he is, I want him to know I see through him, and then I want to block him

You won't get those first bits. It's just a bit more wriggling on the end of his hook - he doesn't value your or your opinion, and he enjoys having a bit of drama and dependence in his life. Save your energy. Block him and walk away.

The only satisfying resolution possible in this situation is your managing to totally clear this guy from your mind and your life, and never letting him back in.

CandyLeBonBon · 09/12/2020 01:45

I'm guessing his monumental ego was offended when you didn't want the painting originally, so this is your punishment. Tell him you think he's a prick and move on.

SilverBirchWithout · 09/12/2020 02:35

The reason I wanted to buy it was that I have artists in my family, and I know it's important to support artists you know. Also, I liked the painting. It was painted for me, and it was of a place that meant something to both of us. He said sure. He asked for £300.
This highlighted to me straight away what a CF David is! What was initially painted as a gift he was now asking you £300 for. My goodness we’re you not shocked?
He is not a friend, he (& Emily) are just users of other people. Walk away it will just continue to wind you up as you realise they see you as a mug. The painting has long gone.

SilverBirchWithout · 09/12/2020 02:36

So many typos and a bold fail Blush

Seeingadistance · 09/12/2020 02:39

Who the fuck gives a painting to someone who’s about to get on a train to travel to another country?!

user1481840227 · 09/12/2020 03:01

So what do I want to get out of this? I guess I want him to know that I dont think he is the good person he pretends he is, I want him to know I see through him, and then I want to block him

You're never going to find the right choice of words that are going to convince him to admit he's wrong. He clearly went through a lot of mental gymnastics with his last message to you.

I'd have to say my piece though and let him know that he was a pretentious arsehole Grin
and then if you want the money back I would formally request it with one of the templates that someone has posted earlier and not be drawn into any further discussion.

I bet his painting was shit also Grin

BlueThistles · 09/12/2020 03:03

there is no painting is there Hmm

JamieLeeCurtains · 09/12/2020 03:13

If you donate a £1 to their Crowdfunder, do you get to leave a comment?

Just a thought.

MyMajesty · 09/12/2020 03:19

Send a short sharp message, like the one from category12.
End by saying you'll be taking legal steps to get your money back.
Don't bother with any legal steps.
Immediately block and forget.

BitOfFun · 09/12/2020 03:26

I love justilou's message. I think it achieves what you want.

BlackCatShadow · 09/12/2020 03:29

He obviously hasn't got any money, so I suspect you are wasting your time. Just write it off and stop texting him. I think if you are looking for any admission that he has done anything wrong, then you are barking up the wrong tree. People like this will always see themselves as the victims and paint you as the villain. You won't get any realisation of wrong-doing from him.

BitOfFun · 09/12/2020 03:32

I also dont want to ruin a friendship by reading too much into it.

It's already been ruined by him being a flakey cunt.

VulvaPerson · 09/12/2020 03:42

Fucking hell, yeah thats cheeky. These type of threads I tend to eyeroll at but this one has me a bit angry on your behalf!

I cannot see you getting the money, or the painting. And honestly think you should just avoid these toxic people from now on.

ShowMeThePainting · 09/12/2020 03:50

@SilverBirchWithout
This highlighted to me straight away what a CF David is! What was initially painted as a gift he was now asking you £300 for. My goodness we’re you not shocked?

I have to admit that yes, I did feel a strange feeling when he said that, only for a moment and then I discarded it because I had asked him to put a price on it, and he had, end if story - that's fair.

But it's true that because he was so quick to instantly bounce back with a price (and not a token amount either), the more emotional side of me did have a flicker of "oh right".

OP posts: