What’s the deal with not being married?

[Cloud1220]

Myself and DP of 10 years are not married. We have two DC. Mortgage/house in joint names 50/50.

Every thread I see on here (when things get rocky) where someone isn’t married has comments like ‘why didn’t you think about marrying him before you had children?’, ‘this is why you should have been married’ etc.

So, wise people in my phone, what do I need to know?!

Wills and pension beneficiaries can be changed at the stroke of a pen. Half a house is good, but if it has to be sold (because neither can buy the other out) would your share of the equity be enough for you to start over?

You can also be making yourself vulnerable if you do not keep your earning power and sort your own pension.

Please can someone explain how next of kin works? What situations is it used for?

It's fairly nebulous in all parts of UK, but if his family think they should have the major say then you could find yourself in a tortuous row at a time when you probably won't feel up to it. It might matter more if you are abroad

Remember to consider scenarios such as long term illness or disability following an accident as well as death and separation. Getting an enduring POA (or whatever it's called these days) in place could be a good idea

Because he can fuck off and leave you with nothing

I think alot of people who are cohabiting but are not married do so because they confuse marriage with weddings. You can get married quietly and be protected legally more easily than sorting out will's guardianship etc and without the big wedding malarkey.
I worked with a woman who mostly due to his family (religious and cultural conflicts) never married her long term partner and father of her children. He was sadly killed in a London terrorist attack and she was not even able to attend his funeral. They lost their house as it was past to her husband's brother and she had to move back with her parents. She was constantly afraid her exs family would try and abduct the children and take them abroad where they held nationality.

Extreme case but could have been solved with a £200, 15 minute registry office marriage.

@LemonTT

*If you aren't married you won't be his next of kin, so any important decisions will be made by your PIL or DP's siblings until your children are old enough. It means you won't inherit his share of your home or any of his money and won't be provided for in his pension. The same goes both ways of course.

You need to be clear what you mean by next of kin. It’s nots a legally defined term. This post is so misleading.

You basically want to say you won’t inherit without a will. Not that you will be stripped of parental rights.*
I didn't mean stripped of parental rights, I meant decisions on his care or share could be made by your in laws, until the children are old enough to decide.

'Just a piece of paper' - this phrase winds me up.

Other things that are just a piece of paper:

• winning lottery ticket
• £1000 note
• contract to supply the NHS with the Covid 19 vaccine
• Willy Wonka's Golden Ticket
• contract for your dream job

The point about 'pieces of paper' is what's written on them and who's signed them. If you have the piece of paper, you have something valuable that gives you defined rights. If you don't have the piece of paper, your position is less clear. This might be to your advantage.

I'm quite surprised nobody has popped up yet to say 'I am a woman and I am the higher earner, no way am I getting married, it's not in my interests, he'd be entitled to a huge share of my assets if we split up'. Such women never get flamed, but any man saying that on MN would be destroyed. Another poster above has it right. If you live together and especially if you have children your lives are entwined, you are a team, and when the relationship ends that should be taken into account. That's not going to happen if you have no legal contract.

in your situation, with him being self employed, you are particuarly vulnerable on a split. While he would still be responsible for paying child support (but no other support to you), it's very easy for the self employed to declare at £10k salary (upon which child maintenance is calculated) and to take the rest as dividends / non salary payments. You have compromised your own earnings to bring up his family and as an unmarried partner, that will never be recognised

Are you joint tenants on the house? (being on the mortgage rather than the deeds is actually less helpful as he can disappear and leave you solely responsible for payments on the joint debt)

Copied from a law firm's website .......Couples who live together but have not married or formed a civil partnership have no special rights. There is no right to share assets or to request ongoing financial assistance by way of maintenance for themselves, even if one party has given up work to look after children. The only claims that can be made are governed by very historical laws of property.

If you don't like the implications of marriage how about a civil partnership ?

Today 08:44IRunLikeJoeBiden

^VettiyaIruken

It's a contract. It gives a number of rights and protections.
Many you can recreate with various other contracts. (And like every contract, you can end it.) But isn't it daft to enter into half a dozen contracts because you don't want to enter into one 😁.

I'm not at all romantic. Or trusting. If I'm having kids and I'm taking the financial and career hit, I'm sure as shit getting my legal protections in place first!^

Or you could choose not to take a financial and career hit. It’s not compulsory for women not to work for years because they have a child"

I don't believe I said it was compulsory.
I said if.
If I'm having kids and if I'm taking the hit.

If I wasnt then I wouldnt need to. 🤷‍♀️ However, a lot of women make that choice and should have that contract in place imo.

OP from your update on your actual situation, you are VERY vulnerable. And even worse, he's self employed. He can ensure you don't get any maintenance easily.

Think about it carefully. You NEED to be able to single handedly work and support your children if you stay unmarried. You are not currently in that position. He holds all the cards.

If he is still married to someone and he hasn't left a will then his wife would inherit.

Wow so many replies, thank you for all your advice and experiences.

The short of it is no, if he were to up and leave tomorrow I wouldn’t be OK financially on my own. I have very small savings and my part time wage wouldn’t allow me a big enough mortgage to start up again on my own, or it would certainly be a struggle. I’m not naive enough to think that this could never happen, which is why I’m so grateful for your advice!

Also eye opening about the documents such as Wills, Trusts, pensions being able to be changed at the stroke of a pen - hadn’t considered it like that before!

Thanks for the advice re paying into joint account and paying childcare out of that. I can make that change today! (I’m on mat leave at the moment so not getting much in, but can certainly put some into the joint a/c).

Finances aside, also really helpful to hear about the bereavement aspect. Not being able to sort out funerals or other issues, access money for the kids if the worst were to happen etc. would be awful.

Some are asking about our views on marriage. I would marry tomorrow (and would have done years ago!), he’s been adamant from day 1 he’s not interested in it (thank you to the ex-wife of the guy he idolised growing up who absolutely hung her husband out to dry; moved the kids to the other side of the country with no warning, ruined his business, broke his heart..!) I suppose I thought at the beginning his views on it might change but he’s been true to his word, will give him that!

I used to want the big, white, wedding but after seeing so many friends in financial ruin for years after theirs, I’d happily settle for a low key Covid wedding or even just the paperwork if I’m honest.

Also, yep, the kids have his surname. I hate having a different surname and having to explain whose mummy I am when I call nursery; I imagine it will only get worse when they start school!

Think we need to have a discussion

Have you discussed with your partner? You’re in a dreadfully vulnerable position.

Oh and yes, joint tenants on the house deeds as well as joint mortgage

I have tried to make these arrangements to protect myself I suppose, but can see that marriage still offers the best protection

Sorry cross posted

I'm not married, we have been together nearly 9 years, due our third child. Being married would be of no benifit to me if we split, infactbi would be worse off. When it becomes a benifit I may think about it.

You sound like you’re very financially vulnerable OP. Since your boyfriend is a self-employed business owner and has been used to seeing the children’s expenses as your problem then child maintenance payments after a split would be pretty much optional for him.

You’re a bit vague about the sums of money involved but potentially when you draw up your wills if you do the sums you’ll find you’re exposed to hundreds of thousands of pounds in inheritance tax liability if you remain partnered but unmarried to death. Tactically I think you should progress the wills as a matter of urgency (it’s always urgent for unmarried couples anyway) and make sure that when you do it you do all the IHT liability calculations together. The conclusion will be obvious that you should get married.

Iminaglasscase how would it be detrimental?

Oh OP. This has the potential to end very badly for you. You need to discuss it with him again and if he refuses to get married you need to do everything in your power to ensure that your savings build up in an equivalent way to his.

Ask him why he thinks it's ok for you to be in such a precarious position?

@Winter2020 - it’s not true that married people can’t change their wills or leave (or even sell) their property to whoever they like. In England they can.

Op sounds like you may be better off getting married but if you own half the assets plus have a good defined benefit pension actually you could be better off unmarried. Don’t listen to any of the stuff re next of kin or medical decisions - it’s not at all true in English law.

Grittlelayrabbit who said detrimental?

Also the stuff about you being “barred from his funeral” etc is rubbish. Even if he hadn’t done a will, his children would inherit everything on intestacy and you would control it as their parent. Lots of silly scare stories on here. “Next of kin” is not a legal concept in England.

I own absolutely everything, everything in my name. DP has terrible credit and can't get anything on finance. We don't have joint finances, but we do share everything.
Marriage isn't alway the best option. My mum can vouch for that. She got completely screwed. Run out of her own house by an abusive man, has to give him a lump sum and share of her private pension while she gets nothing from a pension from him because he doesn't have one. She now also has rent to pay because he is living in a house mortgage free that she busted a gut to pay off at a young age, while he really didn't bother working very much and took nothing to do with finances.

My friend and neighbour's partner died suddenly after they'd been together 16 years leaving her with 3 children. She would have been entitled to Bereavement Support Payment of £3,500 lump sum and £250/month for 18 months if they had been married but they weren't. She got nothing.

Iminaglasscase you said “worse off” which is generally synonymous with detrimental. Why would you be worse off, then?

Sorry cross posted