What’s the deal with not being married?

[Cloud1220]

Myself and DP of 10 years are not married. We have two DC. Mortgage/house in joint names 50/50.

Every thread I see on here (when things get rocky) where someone isn’t married has comments like ‘why didn’t you think about marrying him before you had children?’, ‘this is why you should have been married’ etc.

So, wise people in my phone, what do I need to know?!

you won't get half the pension of unmarried. You wouldn't be named on a pension - it's individually specific

I am named on dps pension

gottakeeponmovin

Not sure what you mean.

Legally his wife is NOK but in my case I am named as NOK on all dp’s medical stuff and it was me who spoke to the consultant about his medical care going forward and what Dp wanted.

Should the worse happen I own everything anyway.

You’re not your partners wife. If he died tomorrow, and it does happen, his parents could go against every one of his wishes. He could be cremated instead of buried, they’d get his ashes, they could fight for his half of your family home, they could fight for rights to his money as his next of kin what with his children only being children...

He could leave you and marry someone else next week, you’re not married so you’d have no rights to half of his pension...

if he was accidentally killed and a huge compensation payout was forthcoming, again his parents could argue that it was due to them. I’m not saying they’d be right, I’m reminding you they’d legally be as entitled as your partners children are. It would depend on who could afford the better solicitor.

If you’re happy living like that than carry on.

No offence OP because I totally respect your situation and choices, but if you’ve been around long enough to notice the trend of ‘things getting rocky and women being told they should have married’ then you’ve obviously noticed the giant massive serious trend for women on MN ‘shitting themselves because they’ve been SAHP/PT workers to raise 3 kids to a guy whose now sending shifty messages to a girl from work and it turns out they aren’t even on the mortgage’.

I’ve noticed it. I try REALLY hard not to eye roll at them because it’s just a situation which plays out over and over, women leaving themselves totally and utterly vulnerable.

Do they need to marry to avoid this? No
Is getting married easier and more ‘fun’ than all the legal protections you could still put in place but not be ‘married’. Yes

We tell women to get married to protect themselves because it’s more likely to happen/conventional/easier than dragging through all the other paperwork to protect yourself financially.

That ‘little piece of paper’ is your insurance policy
You get 50/50 of all the marital assets should you split up
Unmarried mothers who stay at home and dont work are in the worst possible position financially

@Pumpertrumper can we play a game here? help me work out what other paperwork can be put in place to put someone in the same position as if they were married, and which can't be unilaterally changed? I'm pretty stumped as I think that without marriage it can all be altered by whoever stands to benefit from altering.

1. pension = nomination of wishes is indicative only and trustees can override it if a man has eg moved on and lives with another woman. It's also remarkably simple (logging on to the website) to change the nomination of wishes for beneficiaries.
2. Wills - again, can be changed without beneficiaries knowing a thing about it, or being able to do anything about it
3. joint account - can be emptied by one party without recourse from the other
4. sharing of assets / funds - can you really set up a contractual obligation around intended split of assets without the consideration of marriage? I'm struggling on this one. What's the usual consideration in a post-nup agreement?

Having wound up several family estates in the last few years.

The only way you can get a transferrable inheritance tax allowance is by marriage or civil partnership.

For many couples in the south east their house alone puts them over the limit.

@Kokeshi123

Agree 100% with your post.

@IRunLikeJoeBiden

I don’t get it either OP. I earn more than DP, and we have wills where the other is the beneficiary. We own the house 50/50 and both pay the same into the house. On hospital forms we are each other’s next of kin. There is no need for us to be married that I can see.

You don't pay inheritance tax when a spouse or civil partner dies. You do when anyone else does.

So, wise people in my phone, what do I need to know?!

As someone who was with DP for 20 years or so and co-owned a house before we had a baby and then got married a year later.... being an unmarried couple works while everything is roughly equal on the oustide: similar incomes, similar assets, similar responsibilities, similar levels of health. But then something comes along to change all that - like, say a baby; although a long-term health problem or an acccident and disability, or a big gap in incomes or assets whether that is sudden or gradual over years can have a similar effect... and then you realise that you need to respond in an unequal way to support each other and any children and you are going to be dependent on each other in a whole new way... and espeically, one of you is becoming financially dependent on the other. Then the legal protections that marriage gives are going to be very relevant and very important. Or maybe you don't realise it straight away. Given what you have said about your own arrangements it's high time you did realise!

I would marry tomorrow (and would have done years ago!), he’s been adamant from day 1 he’s not interested in it

Oh dear. Then it's not high time. It's too late for you. You know he wont marry you, but you already have children and just a part time job. You are well and truly trapped. Sorry.

(thank you to the ex-wife of the guy he idolised growing up who absolutely hung her husband out to dry; moved the kids to the other side of the country with no warning, ruined his business, broke his heart..!)

And you're sure that's the reason? You mean he doesn't trust you not to hang him out to dry just because of this other woman? Not even his own experience? Did you never think that's a bit fishy?

I am named on dps pension

If your DP decides to leave you he can change this easily and you will have no claim at all.
Marriage/civil partnership means that the pension is considered a joint asset which has to be split or negotiated in settlement.

@Cam2020

Not to mention if he were to ever have an accident/be injured/die/unable to speak for himself, you will have zero say in what happens because you’re not his next of kin.

Is that true though? I am my partners next of kin on his medical records - he has had lengthy stays in hospital and I was the person who was contacted.

In practice, a hospital will communicate with a partner who clearly lives at the same address, is in a relationship etc, or who has been named as the person to talk to by the patient. There is no legal definition or status known as 'Next of Kin' how ever often it is wielded as a concept on MN:

www.patients-association.org.uk/next-of-kin

you won't get half the pension of unmarried. You wouldn't be named on a pension - it's individually specific

My 19 year old son is named as the beneficiary on my pension.

He gets it if there is anything left when I conk out.

Start looking for a full-time job.

And not just a wee little one in the bakery so you can do school pick up.

Sit him down and say, you won't marry me, and I've realised that that leaves me very vulnerable if we were to split.

I need to build up my own pension, my own CV, my own career, because legally we're not a team.

I'm starting to apply for full-time jobs, I was also thinking of retraining. Might mean some weeks away, mmm I was thinking of doing this...'

'but my job... I can't do the kids solo'

You - blank look - you'll have to. I'm going to have to build myself to where you are now, then we need to be equal. We're both going to have to juggle work stuff around that a bit and probably use childminders. I've already taken the hit - it's going to be your turn for the next few years, once my mat leaves are done. Or, we could get married, so I'm legally protected.

And you're sure that's the reason? You mean he doesn't trust you not to hang him out to dry just because of this other woman? Not even his own experience? Did you never think that's a bit fishy?

Lots of posts on MN about not trusting men no matter how much you may love them. Are you suggesting that all the women posting about making sure you're covered in case he goes are actually up to no good themselves? Men can get the same insecurities.

OP:
In terms of earnings, he is main wage earner and self employed. The business is doing very well. I went part time 3 years ago when we started a family so my income is now less than half of his. We have a joint account and have done since day 1. I pay for the childcare from my part time wage (so, most of my wage gone confused) and pay for the kids clothes/birthdays/Xmas etc. He pays for everything else for the house

PP is right: this is not a great way of doing things if you are not married.

1. you have been financially disadvantaged by family and child-rearing, he has not. Not just your actual pay packet but your pension contributions, and your promotion / professional development prospects, with having gone p/t. So, IMO, you would benefit from the protection of marriage , which gives you a justifiable claim on his assets should you split.

1. Your overall contribution is not being recognised. How about you each pay your salaries into the joint account, ALL household bills and family expenses come from that account, food, childcare, child's presents, days out, etc, . Pay into a joint savings account from that account, then pay an equal amount of 'disposable' for personal spending into your sole accounts. The childcare costs enable him to work as equally as they enable you to work. I know it is all treated as 'family money' - but what happens to savings? Do you have your own pot? Does he? Who spends more 'disposable'?

@YoniAndGuy

Start looking for a full-time job.

And not just a wee little one in the bakery so you can do school pick up.

Sit him down and say, you won't marry me, and I've realised that that leaves me very vulnerable if we were to split.

I need to build up my own pension, my own CV, my own career, because legally we're not a team.

I'm starting to apply for full-time jobs, I was also thinking of retraining. Might mean some weeks away, mmm I was thinking of doing this...'

'but my job... I can't do the kids solo'

You - blank look - you'll have to. I'm going to have to build myself to where you are now, then we need to be equal. We're both going to have to juggle work stuff around that a bit and probably use childminders. I've already taken the hit - it's going to be your turn for the next few years, once my mat leaves are done. Or, we could get married, so I'm legally protected.

This.

@MatildaonaWaltzer

To be perfectly honest I haven’t got a clue. It’s not something I’ve ever looked into as I got married. I certainly think marriage is the safer legal option and makes it much harder for a man to deranged himself without everything ‘joint assets’ being called into question and the children’s needs being put first.

However, because I’ve not looked into it I can’t say definitively that there aren’t ‘non marriage’ options able to be put in place. I imagine it is possible to contract up the joining of assets...etc if you’re determined enough and willing to pay a good solicitor.

I used to work in a totally different area of law but every so often we would deal with client beneficiaries. These were unexpected deaths so often no will involved. When we heard ‘well we have kids and been together 10 years..etc but we weren’t married’ we’d roll our eyes knowing the absolute mayhem it was going to cause and how upset people were gonna get.
I’ve never come across a situation where all the legalities of non marriage were tied up...but I can’t say it’s not possible.

Posters here are very pro marriage, and for alot of women it is a wise move. I am not married ( been there before) but I work full time, have decent pension provision, named on dp's pension, own my own home and have life insurance for my dp. The only advantage I can see for marriage is inheritance tax but I want most of my estate to go to ds. Marriage is not the answer for everyone especially those with dc.

something just occured to me - OP - if he runs his own business as a limited company, he could transfer half the shares to you. That would give you some added protection. Of course this doesn't work if he's a sole practitioner / in a partnership

@Designateddiver

I do wonder if most other ‘pro marriage’ women on MN actually feels like I do.

MN: I’m not married to DP

Me: Cool

MN: We’ve been together a long time and want to TTC/I’m pregnant/we have small children. He’s not keen on marriage though.

Me: I mean it’s your choice.

MN: The house is in his name.

Me: You might want to address that.

MN: I’m also gonna be a SAHP/ go PT and give up my independence making me reliant on this guy who doesn’t want to marry me.

Me: Erm...

I think if posts were 90% women with their own FT job, pension, name on mortgage and shit together MN might become a much less ‘pro marriage’ place. But it’s always women in the prior situation who post and it’s like watching a car crash in slow motion.

Xx

Why bother marrying when a civil partnership does the job just as well? I'm surprised more people don't go down that route.

Pumpertrumper

You forgot the part where you get accused of being a "pearl clutcher who looks down on people who have babies out of wedlock".

Personally, if I was with a man who didn't want to marry me and I'd already had DC, I'd be trying to get back to full time employment straight away. Put some financial assets solely in your name or try some savings that he cannot access. You need to sort out a pension and make sure that his selfishness doesn't screw you over.

You are not his next of kin. It's as simple as that.