What would actually happen in court? And what else would happen first?

[Bearsinmotion]

ExDP and I separated over 2 years ago, but we still lived together until a few weeks ago. We aren’t married, have 2 DC, who live the me in the family home and have a joint mortgage.

DP is mentally ill - he has had severe OCD all his adult life, but over the last few years he has got much worse. Two years ago the children and I had to leave the house for nearly a year after social services deemed it unsafe for the children. This is because there is clutter, including rubbish and recycling which he refuses to let me through away. He has had treatment, but the house is still a tip and he is still trying to control everything. But it’s certainly not enough for the children to have a proper childhood.

Over the years I have for everything I can for DP but now I’m done. He is delusional, he is gaslighting, lying to people who are trying to help and verbally abusive and controlling.

As it stands, I am seeing a solicitor on Wednesday then I have a visit for a company to quote for decluttering the house. However ex-DP will refuse to let this happen, and is threatening police, legal action etc, and also that if I do take legal action he will kill himself.

My question is what he can actually do? I am not getting rid of anything belonging to him that has any value, but he will not see it that way. He tells me to expect a “full, no holds barred court case” on my hands, as part of which he says he will list all his (imaginary) concerns about my mental state.

But what can he actually do? He has convinced himself I have a litany of mental health issues (I don’t) and that I neglected him after the birth of DC2, and is telling this to anyone who will listen. He is deeply controlling and unable to regulate him emotions. Now he is telling me to send back the DC’s Christmas presents because we have to pay the solicitor’s fees.

But what can he actually do? I am not mentally ill. I have had continued involvement with social services who are perfectly happy about how I care for the children. I can’t afford to buy him out but could pay the mortgage on a smaller house with the DC. I guess I really want to know whether he can force a court battle and what happens if he won’t follow any agreement the solicitor puts in place...

Ah - not being married is helpful! Presume you own the house as joint tenants? So once you sell it's 50/50 split of any profit? Then you claim child maintenance off him and that's it.

So you just need to get agreement over the sale of the house and it's contents. Court to decide if he won't agree, which he won't.

Could he afford to buy you out of the family home to allow you and the DC to move elsewhere?

In your shoes I would want a fresh start in a different property well away from all his hoarding

You have a duty to at least meet the standard of January, by storing/decluttering/disposing. Prioritise your dc. I don't understand your comment regarding the beds - if he was not living there why did his delusion make you change behaviour.

Do you actually need to keep telling him what you're planning to do? Can't you just get the quotes etc without telling him about it in advance?

How much equity is there in the house bearing in mind you would get a low price due to current state!

Is there actually enough to fight for? Could you afford to buy him out (could be forced through the courts)?

Thanks everyone. The other concern is whether he will fight for custody and therefore limit the maintenance he has to pay. He says he will tell the court about all my (imaginary) mental health issues but even if he convinced them it was true I can’t see how that would benefit him.

So you're in the family home and he's in the caravan currently, is that right? First thing I'd do is get an occupation order so he can't move back in and then I'd do as PP's suggest and have the lot delivered to the caravan, what he does about storing it is his problem to solve, not yours. And then I'd get that house on the market and cut financial ties as quickly as possible, you have DC to think of so you can't afford to let him drag you down with him, however ill he is. That said I hope he gets the help he needs and that both of you can be happier apart

I would definitely get rid of all the recycling and just say the council came and took it
Can you get social services to give you official notice it has to be decluttered to Jan levels?
Then sell house and move on!

Sorry, trying to keep up!

Do you actually need to keep telling him what you're planning to do? Can't you just get the quotes etc without telling him about it in advance?

This is the nub of it, I don’t know. I am getting a quote for the decluttering, on the basis that they don’t remove anything of value, but he will frame as me being abusive because of his MH.

You need to formally tell him what you are doing, giving notice for him to make alternative arrangements, not discuss or ask permission. Tell him it needs to happen for health and safety of your dc.

I think that getting rid of the recycling, boxing his stuff and getting the place deep cleaned is the way forward. I guess it’s just what I have to tell him before I do and what legal recourse he has if I do.

Presumably his illness is diagnosed (and therefore documented) and the effects have been observed by SS and will be on record with them? Whereas there is no evidence that you are mentally ill except in his head and SS deem you to be stable and caring for DC to their satisfaction? If so his claims will get him nowhere and will only strengthen the impression that he is unstable.

As far as custody is concerned again the court will put the best interests of the DC first. It doesn't sound as though he can offer a stable home for them if he allowed their house to become a fire risk and that's all on record with SS so I would be hopeful that his contact would not involve overnights and therefore won't impact on maintenance. You need a good family law solicitor who can advise you about likely outcomes really but certainly don't be scared by what he threatens will happen, find out the facts for yourself so you know where you stand.

LIZS, I have told him repeatedly that needs to happen, he says he can do it and never does. He would do everything he could to prevent it. And make our lives hell. I had to call 999 this week because he was at the house threatening to kick the door down because he wanted to talk to me NOW even though I was in a training course for the next hour. Waiting until the course was finished was not an option.

I think you need to focus on what outcomes you want, before you do anything. Certainly before you get rid of his stuff.

1. To sell the house
2. For him not to get custody
3. For him not to claim that you got rid of his stuff because you have MH issues

In terms of 2., I think you should maybe involve SS and let them see the state he has allowed the house to get in, and for them to recognisehis MH issues. That way they will be on your side when/if he starts to fight for custody down the line.

In terms of 3., think about the order you need to do all this in, before just throwing away/decluttering his stuff.

Thanks Weirdfan, you have outlined my train of thought there. I really hope you are right. I have been living with his behaviour for so long now I question everything I do :(

Can you just clarify:

Where do you and the DC live now?

Where does he live now?

When you called the police did you press charges? Despite his MH you need to!

Right separate out the three things:

1. House and contents - occupation order and court order giving you sole conduct of the sale. Storage for his stuff. Take photos as pp have said.
2. His harassment of you. Non mol may be the way to go. Police need to be involved. Separate email so he contacts you only on that and not in person.
3. Residence of children. Don't worry about this for now. He prob wouldn't bother going to court, and no chance even if he did. Facilitate contact - tea once a week, zoom. But no overnights as it doesn't sound as if they'd be safe.

@Bearsinmotion

LIZS, I have told him repeatedly that needs to happen, he says he can do it and never does. He would do everything he could to prevent it. And make our lives hell. I had to call 999 this week because he was at the house threatening to kick the door down because he wanted to talk to me NOW even though I was in a training course for the next hour. Waiting until the course was finished was not an option.

But you are giving him room to negotiate, or at least a belief that he can , so he won't listen or take it seriously. If you can afford for a solicitor to write do so but it just needs to be clear that if he has not done so it will happen on x date at y cost. Agree with reporting to police and involving ss.

Don't feel cross with yourself for struggling to think straight through this. My relative is going throigh the exact same thing. Their sibling says and does things that make no sense or blame them for breaking things, that he broke himself... But my relative has been in it so long he now questions what's reasonable and acceptable behaviours now and we spend a lot of time just listening to them talk through things that have happened and letting them know that they're doing the right thing.

A social worker offered to put my relative in touch with someone that had been in the same situation although nothing came of it... I wonder if there is a more specialised support network you could access that can help with this. Either people who have been in your position or experts in mental health. The talking things through side... Maybe a charity like Mind?

When my relative is sectioned again we will need to clear and photograph the house ready for sale. So in a similar position in some ways although theres not a lot of stuff there's the legal side of eviction and dealing with furniture etc.

The getting rid of his stuff and you signing up to storage for it. I would take legal advice on this once you an occupation order in place.

My friend bought her hoarder ex DH out, he ended up legally having x weeks to remove his stuff himself. This is why you need to phone police and get a non-mol because when it comes to dealing with his hoard and the property it make it easier for you.

Also you need to protect the DC from him and his instability and living in a horrible health hazard home.

Please find a solicitor with a proven record in dealing with these issues, phone around etc and then pay for the expert advice you need.

Thank you all. The solicitor I met with last year is a family law specialist so I am quite confident with her.

I didn’t press charges but I did send the officer a couple of examples of the texts I received and he is going to speak to ExDP about harassment. Social services are involved and supportive. I don’t know if it is recorded at all but three separate professions have referred me to DV specialists around coercion.

Coercive control is a crime now. Please go back to the police and ask to press charges. You need to use the law to protect you and the DC and be free of him once and for all.

I think I'd get photos taken by someone independent if that's possible so that he can't say you're lying.

It sounds incredibly stressful. Where are you living now?

We are in the family home, moved back in after half term. I have already broken quite a few rules to make the place safe, but the scale is just overwhelming, there’s no way I can do it all myself.

He won’t say I am lying - he just thinks it’s acceptable