My Girlfriend (F26) & I (M30) are at an impasse on compatibility (Vaccines, Life Choices, General view of the world)

[DeepThinking]

My Girlfriend (F26) of 11 months & I (M30) have reached an impasse on compatibility and we are unsure how to move forward, I feel "stuck', not sure if we are just not compatible or if these things can be worked through. It should be noted that she has a Son from a previous relationship. We seem to disagree on vaccinations and general "ways of the world". Turns out her Son isn't vaccinated and she would be hesitant to vaccinate any future Children either.

I should be clear and state that I fully respect her own judgement and decisions for her Son, I don't have a right to say otherwise and nor would I. Where it becomes an issue is our Future children, as I would of course have a say then.

What should I do ? I understand every situation is different but some perspective would be useful. Please please try and not say things like " your Girlfriend is nuts " as while I respect your passion, it's not helpful. If I didn't see some potential outside of these incompatibilities, I wouldn't have lasted this long. Thank you.

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I trust science, I trust the medical professionals, I think logically and do research on things I don't understand. I am also however opened-minded, which is why I guess I have not walked away immediately and I am entertaining a discussion on it despite my opposite views. She however seems to be a bit more of a hippy (I mean no disrespect by that term, I hope it doesn't offend! - just using it to help with context. It's actually something I as attracted to in the beginning ( being different and all that) ).

She's in to "Healthy Living" as she calls it. Little meats, more plant based foods. No sugar. Doesn't like chemicals or other manufactured additives ( makes her own soaps and doesn't buy off-the-shelf products ). Essential oils ( hey, they smell great, not gonna lie ). Just helping to paint a picture...

It's never come up before, which is why we have got this far in to things. Now that we are getting deeper and more committed, we have started to think about a future Family. I would love my own biological kids some day. We naturally drifted to the topic of vaccinations. She asked would I be getting the COVID-19 vaccine, and I said "No, not immediately, I'd want to see it go through trials and let it mature a little but eventually I would absolutely get it" -- to which she replied with " Oh, well I won't be getting it at all and by the way [sons name] is not vaccinated either". My stomach dropped to the floor.

She cites the (apparently typical ?) reasons against them as:

• Overloading the immune system

• Heavy Metal content

• A child's immune system is only forming and we need to let it form naturally

• Risks of side effects

• They are thriving without it

I asked her "If [sons name] ever fell and needed a tetanus shot, would you get it" - and she answered with "I don't know, probably not". Which I guess just concerns me even more. Tetanus can and does kill. It broke my heart to even think about her Son and our future Kids suffering in this way.

She appears to distrust the medical profession. Won't take antibiotics or other pills when prescribed, that kinda thing.

I guess I am worried about other things that might not have come up yet, if she feels this way about vaccines, what else could come up in the future ?

All of that said, I should mention, we are compatible in other ways. It wouldn't have got this far if we didn't have things in common and a genuine love for one another. She does think logically about a lot of other things, which is why when this came up I was completely floored and was unexpected.

She has mentioned on occasion that she's "willing to compromise" and maybe we can "spread them out (the vaccines) " which does indicate to me that she's open to change, but this fluctuates and she's not always consistent with these words.

I feel stuck because we've grown close, we practically live together, there is definite love there, we're compatible in other ways, her Son and I have grown close and am very fond of him. He's used to me too.

I'd really like to hear what you have to say (hard truths also) but I ask that you not put her down. She is my Girlfriend and despite our very opposing views on a contentious topic, I still love her and do believe she is well intended in her own way.

Thank you

@JurassicParkAha posted a brilliant response that’s worth re reading and thinking about.

Agree with the majority of posters.

Something to think about with the compromise idea:
Would you ever forgive her if a future child wasn't vaccinated and developed complications (or died) from a disease they could have been immunised against?

Lots of posters have asked the above. But there's the other side of the coin too:
Would she ever forgive you if a future child WAS vaccinated and had complications with the immunisation? Complications do happen - we all know that. The vast majority of us risk them as we understand and agree with the overall benefits. I wonder how she would feel in that situation though.

I suspect if you did manage to come to some sort of compromise on this, the only way it would actually work out long term is if nothing really went wrong medically. That's a fine tightrope to be walking and you have no control over whether things would go wrong or not (whether with immunisations - either way, or with child needing antibiotics, her needing to answer on medical issues for her if you're unconscious, vice versa...)

I guess what it really boils down to is do you really want to be with someone who is more 'me', less 'we'?

Because humans are still alive and kicking due to the 'we' crowd. Anyone with even the slightest cognition gets that.

@flipperdoda

Agree with the majority of posters.

Something to think about with the compromise idea:
Would you ever forgive her if a future child wasn't vaccinated and developed complications (or died) from a disease they could have been immunised against?

Lots of posters have asked the above. But there's the other side of the coin too:
Would she ever forgive you if a future child WAS vaccinated and had complications with the immunisation? Complications do happen - we all know that. The vast majority of us risk them as we understand and agree with the overall benefits. I wonder how she would feel in that situation though.

I suspect if you did manage to come to some sort of compromise on this, the only way it would actually work out long term is if nothing really went wrong medically. That's a fine tightrope to be walking and you have no control over whether things would go wrong or not (whether with immunisations - either way, or with child needing antibiotics, her needing to answer on medical issues for her if you're unconscious, vice versa...)

I agree with this.

But OP you really did meet your people. Asking about an anti vaxxer on MN .....

Bless you OP.

I have found myself in exactly the situation you fear. I ended up getting my son vaccinated against my partners wishes which has caused us to split up. I’m devistated to have lost my best friend but I would never forgive myself if my baby caught a preventable disease or passed one on to someone immunocompromised.

I wish I had come on a forum like this for advice years ago rather than burying my head in the sand and hoping he would see sense, then I wouldn’t be in this mess. Don’t be like me.

It will be painful to break up, but you seem incompatible.

It's seems to me that your girlfriend is a completely insane unscientific 'anti vaxxer' and you are a logical intelligent human being who wants to improve public health.

You need to leave. The chasm between obviously right and batshit mad are too deep..

I worked in refugee camps in Asia in the early 90s where the measles vaccination had not been available. Delivered babies deaf and blind (like being a refugee wasn't enough of a hard life start) .. babies still born of mothers with measles. They didn't have the choice until UNHCR provided vaccine. I have a (probably) huge bias... but nonetheless life experience of what a lack of vaccine can do.

Your gf son is probably fairly well protected from here immunity due to all the non crazies out there .. but for my OWN children. No way .

@DeepThinking

Just imagine being in a long term relationship with @Coyoacan and there is your answer.

By the way, what other "ways of the world" do you not agree on? Are you jointly making decisions about contraception at this vitally critical stage? Perhaps no more sex until you make a decision.

Covid's no risk to a healthy young person, a vaccine will be a greater risk because some people will always have a reaction.

With vaccines the tiny but very real risk of an allergic reaction has to outweigh the risk of the potential disease so meningitis, measles, polio vaccines etc are essential.

I don't know any parent who intends to give their child a vaccine for something that poses no risk whatsoever to them. That's overkill.

You both sound extreme in your opposite positions.

Why are you capitalising nouns? Are you German?
But anyway only you can decide what crosses the line for you. Personally I would find her views too much and would worry they would get more extreme as time goes on.

This is a major point to have a difference in opinion. The fact that she has expressed this shows it's something she feels strongly about.

I see vaccines in babies and children as automatic...it never even arose before we had kids as to whether or not we would vaccinate them.

Love isn't enough sometimes....

Have you delved into whether she's into conspiracy theories? Serious question, she sounds to be down that path already. Sorry if that's the case but I would run for the hills. It really pisses me off that so called open minded people deny their own fucking kids vaccination. How fucking dare they? Stupid hippies are still stupid. Don't preach love and light when you're talking shite.

Oh and to the idea that covid poses no risk to young people? Nah mate. No such thing as no risk. Go fuck yourself.

I would end your relationship now and move on. It’s just the tip of the iceberg. Can you imagine co-parenting a child with someone who wouldn’t trust doctors to treat them when they are ill? If you separated would you be happy that when your child was with their mother they could be trusted to seek appropriate medical help and follow that advice? It’s very difficult. My ex started out like this but has since really shown his true colours. He even encourages DD not to wear her glasses at his house because he doesn’t believe she needs them and that they ‘weaken the eyes’.

I don't know any parent who intends to give their child a vaccine for something that poses no risk whatsoever to them. That's overkill.

Then you and your friends have missed the point of vaccination schedules. It's not just about your kid's welfare it's about the illness's prevalence in the population.

Being vaccinated/getting your kids vaccinated is about collectivism and practising concern for those around you. Bit of a lost art at the moment.

@ThePlantsitter

I don't know any parent who intends to give their child a vaccine for something that poses no risk whatsoever to them. That's overkill.

Then you and your friends have missed the point of vaccination schedules. It's not just about your kid's welfare it's about the illness's prevalence in the population.

Being vaccinated/getting your kids vaccinated is about collectivism and practising concern for those around you. Bit of a lost art at the moment.

I don’t think it’s lost. Parents have a right to put their child’s health first. And they should do.

Just because the pharma companies and the government tell you that it’s safe - doesn’t always mean that it is.

Since the swine flu vaccine caused children to have narcolepsy ( and the shit show of the government repeatedly trying to block compensation claims in high courts) parents should be wary of vaccines and the refusal of liability of both the Gov and pharma.

Every vaccine my dc have had I’ve researched before they had it. Some vaccines they don’t have. I can only control what happens within my family and their health. Never would I give my child a vaccine for the benefit of some one else

LauraBassi I never assume I can trust the government on anything, but as a pragmatist I prefer a system of government to no governance so I take the rough with the smooth (this government excepted, tbh). I don't want to get into an argument on the safety of otherwise of particular vaccines because I can't be arsed to research it for an online discussions, but this:

Never would I give my child a vaccine for the benefit of some one else

I fundamentally disagree with. When we choose to live in a society, we are choosing to live in a way that benefits others as well as ourselves. Vaccinating against a disease that is likely to mildly affect you but can kill someone who catches it from you is an example of that, or should be.

Laura until your child gets cancer and/or becomes immunosuppressed and then you quickly thank all the other parents who vaccinated their children.

OP apart from all ethical and (very) real life limiting consequences for your future children, I could never have a relationship with a thick person.

Never would I give my child a vaccine for the benefit of some one else
I disagree with this to,we are living in society.And in the UK at the moment if you don't vaccinate,your child is protected by all the other children who have been vaccinated .
Other people's babies are taking that (very small) risk so that you can afford to be selfish.Yay.

@EspressoX10

Laura until your child gets cancer and/or becomes immunosuppressed and then you quickly thank all the other parents who vaccinated their children.

OP apart from all ethical and (very) real life limiting consequences for your future children, I could never have a relationship with a thick person.

The children that got narcolepsy from having the swine flue vaccine have a very real life limiting consequence. Do those children not matter to you?

Do you always resort to insults when people have different opinions to you? Must be a very small world you live in.

It's not just about her current views though. My hippyish family members tend to get stronger in their beliefs as they get older. It started simple and it evolves into anti wifi- anti 5g- anti electricity beliefs. It's come to the point where their kids do not have access to electronics at home because of the bad influence of electricity.

You can love someone with all your heart, but if you're incompatible it won't work out and the kindest thing to yourself would be to cut your losses early to save yourself extra heartbreak later on.

Everything @JurassicParkAha said.

This is so much more than anti-vax. This is just complete incompatibility on absolute fundamentals.

The idea that she could oversee your medical care if you are incapacitated is chilling to me. Would she do what she knows you would want or would she be persuaded by her own thoughts?

It’s a huge thing to disagree on, as PPs have pointed out.

Even in the best relationships, tough decisions and taxing choices can come up. And if you’re not on the same page - not even in the same book! - on medical care and importance thereof, it will be devastating.

My DH is more health-cautious than I am, and all for taking the DC (or himself!) to see a doctor over things I think are minor. And that’s OK even if sometimes we’re not 100% in agreement- because we both trust each other to be making choices in the absolute best interests of our DC. You can’t know yet how absolutely powerless you would feel if your DC was sick and it was either preventable or treatable and you disagreed with your spouse over the best course of action.

I’d also (and perhaps this doesn’t feature to you but would be a concern of mine) think that an anti-vaccine attitude shows selfishness or wilful ignorance to society’s benefit through herd immunity. It’s a bit I’m all right Jack for me - vaccinating protects the weakest and most vulnerable if we all do it if we are able. I would be uncomfortable with that in a partner.

I'm pretty certain the OP wanted advice on his relationship not a list of reasons that vaccines are wrong..... I'm sure he could ask his gf for that information.
Personally I couldn't be with someone who wouldnt vaccinate their kids. Having seen a baby with meningitis I was very happy when the meningitis vaccine came out. 16 years later the child is still dealing with the consequences of the meningitis they were lucky to survive. As for the covid vaccine, the one everyone is talking about isnt going to be licensed for children so people don't have to worry about giving it to their kids anyway.

Pressed post too soon. It's to big of a thing to disagree on in my eyes. And you don't want to have kids only for her to change her mind about any compromise