My Girlfriend (F26) & I (M30) are at an impasse on compatibility (Vaccines, Life Choices, General view of the world)

[DeepThinking]

My Girlfriend (F26) of 11 months & I (M30) have reached an impasse on compatibility and we are unsure how to move forward, I feel "stuck', not sure if we are just not compatible or if these things can be worked through. It should be noted that she has a Son from a previous relationship. We seem to disagree on vaccinations and general "ways of the world". Turns out her Son isn't vaccinated and she would be hesitant to vaccinate any future Children either.

I should be clear and state that I fully respect her own judgement and decisions for her Son, I don't have a right to say otherwise and nor would I. Where it becomes an issue is our Future children, as I would of course have a say then.

What should I do ? I understand every situation is different but some perspective would be useful. Please please try and not say things like " your Girlfriend is nuts " as while I respect your passion, it's not helpful. If I didn't see some potential outside of these incompatibilities, I wouldn't have lasted this long. Thank you.

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I trust science, I trust the medical professionals, I think logically and do research on things I don't understand. I am also however opened-minded, which is why I guess I have not walked away immediately and I am entertaining a discussion on it despite my opposite views. She however seems to be a bit more of a hippy (I mean no disrespect by that term, I hope it doesn't offend! - just using it to help with context. It's actually something I as attracted to in the beginning ( being different and all that) ).

She's in to "Healthy Living" as she calls it. Little meats, more plant based foods. No sugar. Doesn't like chemicals or other manufactured additives ( makes her own soaps and doesn't buy off-the-shelf products ). Essential oils ( hey, they smell great, not gonna lie ). Just helping to paint a picture...

It's never come up before, which is why we have got this far in to things. Now that we are getting deeper and more committed, we have started to think about a future Family. I would love my own biological kids some day. We naturally drifted to the topic of vaccinations. She asked would I be getting the COVID-19 vaccine, and I said "No, not immediately, I'd want to see it go through trials and let it mature a little but eventually I would absolutely get it" -- to which she replied with " Oh, well I won't be getting it at all and by the way [sons name] is not vaccinated either". My stomach dropped to the floor.

She cites the (apparently typical ?) reasons against them as:

• Overloading the immune system

• Heavy Metal content

• A child's immune system is only forming and we need to let it form naturally

• Risks of side effects

• They are thriving without it

I asked her "If [sons name] ever fell and needed a tetanus shot, would you get it" - and she answered with "I don't know, probably not". Which I guess just concerns me even more. Tetanus can and does kill. It broke my heart to even think about her Son and our future Kids suffering in this way.

She appears to distrust the medical profession. Won't take antibiotics or other pills when prescribed, that kinda thing.

I guess I am worried about other things that might not have come up yet, if she feels this way about vaccines, what else could come up in the future ?

All of that said, I should mention, we are compatible in other ways. It wouldn't have got this far if we didn't have things in common and a genuine love for one another. She does think logically about a lot of other things, which is why when this came up I was completely floored and was unexpected.

She has mentioned on occasion that she's "willing to compromise" and maybe we can "spread them out (the vaccines) " which does indicate to me that she's open to change, but this fluctuates and she's not always consistent with these words.

I feel stuck because we've grown close, we practically live together, there is definite love there, we're compatible in other ways, her Son and I have grown close and am very fond of him. He's used to me too.

I'd really like to hear what you have to say (hard truths also) but I ask that you not put her down. She is my Girlfriend and despite our very opposing views on a contentious topic, I still love her and do believe she is well intended in her own way.

Thank you

If one thing my long life has taught me is that some people you cannot reason with. No amount of irrefutable proof, no amount of reasoned, eloquent argument, no amount of evidence works for these people.
However for me, where the belief's of these people do not impact me or my loved ones I can tolerate them. But where it does affect my and/or my loved ones then they get short shrift from me. Failure to vaccinate is a crime against society in my opinion. Because failure to vaccinate puts other people at large at risk.
My first ever LTB.

@Coyoacan there is a huge difference between a child never getting ill (colds, flu, ear infections etc), none of which has a vaccine, and a child contracting measles, chicken pox, polio, etc., which ARE preventable with vaccines. So the fact that your GC doesn't get ill often is great, but I don't think it's related to being unvaccinated.

This would be a deal breaker for me. Not only because I'd be unable to love someone who is willing to let our children be at risk like this, but because I do think unfortunately it's the tip of the iceberg re a general belief system that I don't subscribe to. Anti-vaxxers are often quick to b believe other conspiracy theories and I just couldn't live like with someone like that.

I think it's good that you've found this out now. Saves a lot of heartache later. This is what dating is for - to work out if your basic view on the world is complementary enough that you can imagine a life together.

@Muchadoaboutlife

Somebody not vaccinating their child would be a deal breaker for me. I would not have married my husband if he felt differently. That’s a hard boundary for me. I feel it tells me something fundamental about that person’s common sense, scientific judgement, reasoning, intellectual ability. It would put me off them and the relationship would be over immediately. I had mumps when I was young and it led to infertility as the disease meant my tubes became blocked. I’m not going to go into my story but it makes me incredibly angry that years of heartache could have been avoided. Measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox, polio, tetanus, these things have a vaccine for a reason. They kill or maim.

Sorry to hear that

Was the vaccine available when you were a child and your parents chose not to let you have it?

I always wonder what those anti vaxxers parents feel who have their child develop serious complications/disabilities or die from a disease that would have been prevented if they had just let them be vaccinated like other children. I honestly don't know how they can live with themselves afterwards :(

Basically not enough kids die of preventable disease due to vaccines and it gives a false sense of security.

I remember when meningitis was a problem in universities and people were dropping their 18yo off in October fit and well, the next time they saw them it was in hospital to watch them die.

This would be an easy decision for me. I don't need to read past your first paragraph. I couldn't have a meaningful relationship or even friendship with an anti-vaxxer.

Thanks to everyone that has responded thus far, making my way through them and taking your points on board. Too many to respond individually! - grateful for your continued input.

it's a tough one. A battle between heart and mind :(

@DeepThinking

Thanks to everyone that has responded thus far, making my way through them and taking your points on board. Too many to respond individually! - grateful for your continued input.

it's a tough one. A battle between heart and mind :(

You can't rely on your heart when there's children involved I'm afraid.

You’ve mentioned 2 specific issues: vaccination and your GF expressing distrust of and avoiding medical professions. Are there others?

You say you think you’re otherwise compatible, but since it’s a new relationship that remains to be seen IMO! Eg views on marriage, other aspects of parenting (including step-parenting), sharing money, work.

I wouldn’t want a serious sexual relationship with an anti-vaxxer. Even if they agreed to any future DC being vaccinated. because I strongly disagree and would think they may also have other, (in my view) extreme views on parenting that wouldn’t be compatible with mine.

What if your child developed a serious illness?

If your gf has this feeling about medical professionals how would she cope with a child that has T1 diabetes and needs insulin regularly? A heart condition? Organ failure? Mental health issues?

These conditions need close and careful medical management and children are sadly killed through parents not trusting medical professionals.

I wouldn’t assume that your gf is one of these people but you may need to consider just how far her distrust extends and where it could lead.

If you make it clear that it is an absolute dealbreaker for you, would she be able to compromise do you think?

I have friends who are anti-vax although I did vaccinate my children.
I felt that they were making a decision in the knowledge that the rest of us were providing their child with near herd immunity as most parents do choose to vaccinate, and the viruses are not very prevalent in the population as a whole as a result.
If vaccination levels drop and outbreaks became more widespread I wonder if they would they hold their position- I agree it's a dangerous movement.

I certainly agree with the majority of posters that the health of any future children you might have isn't something you should compromise on. As a society we have forgotten how communicable diseases ravaged children in the past; thank heavens we have a way of avoiding all that suffering now.

I'm actually focusing a bit on another statement you make:

I trust science, I trust the medical professionals, I think logically and do research on things I don't understand. I am also however opened-minded, which is why I guess I have not walked away immediately and I am entertaining a discussion on it despite my opposite views. She however seems to be a bit more of a hippy (I mean no disrespect by that term, I hope it doesn't offend! - just using it to help with context. It's actually something I was attracted to in the beginning ( being different and all that) ).

A friend's grandmother has a million pithy folk-wisdom sayings, many of which I've come over the years to realise are wise for a reason - they happen to be true! In this case, the fitting saying would be "What brought you together in the beginning may drive you apart in the end". Those differences that we find so curious and compelling in our new partners may, in the end, just be too out of joint with our own deeply held beliefs and values. And there's not really anything you can do about that; they probably won't change and you probably won't want to either.

@DeepThinking

Thanks to everyone that has responded thus far, making my way through them and taking your points on board. Too many to respond individually! - grateful for your continued input.

it's a tough one. A battle between heart and mind :(

Never let your heart rule your head. Never.

They can and should work in tandem. But if the two ever 'differ', listen to your head.

You can't argue with stupid.

What are the "other ways of the world" you disagree on?

I thought this was going to be one of those threads where someone (ie. your girlfriend) expresses concern about the COVID vaccine and they get labelled immediately as an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist.
But no.. it seems she really is an anti-vaxxer.

Questioning the COVID vaccine is ok. Waiting a while to receive is ok.
Not having your child vaccinated for things like measles is not ok.
It would be a deal-breaker for me.

Also, if she won't take antibiotics is she going to refuse them for her children too. The "healthy living" lifestyle you are talking about is not bad at all - in fact it's good. Little meat and no sugar is a good idea for all of us. But a lifestyle like that cannot protect you from every medical issue which arises and the question at that point would be what treatment would she allow. Would she refuse medical treatment for herself or her child and prefer to turn to natural remedies/treatments of some description.

I think you need to have more in-depth conversations and be very clear about your position and what is non-negotiable eg. your own children being vaccinated. Your own children receiving antibiotics if needed.

i just want to point out that you absolutely can space the vaccinations out more then they already are. there is no need for the 12 months jabs to a be given at 12 months and also there is no need for all 4 injections at once. the same with the baby ones. they can be spaced out more than the suggested 4 weeks.

also those of you that keep mentioning chicken pox, we dont routinely vaccinate for cp in the uk. so thats not an issue.

op, why not discuss with your gf is she is willing to compromise on only getting some of the vaccinations and see if you can get the mmr done separately from the other vacs at that age and even go as far as to suggest measles, mumps and rubella are given separately to each other. there will be less strain on the immune system then.

I think it is the mi diet of your gf that is going to be the long term issue. Someone stupid enough to believe and anti Vax nonsense is going to have views on many issues that you will find jarring as time goes on.

Explore other areas of her way of thinking and you may uncover a whole world of conspiracy theories you may balk at.

Give it 6 more months to dig deeper, then see how you feel.

'Mindset'

I am a bit of a hippy and know people across the scale of this but not once have I ever thought not to vaccinate my kids. It’s really a very strange thing and fairly new to me, I was hanging out when I had my first dc 12 as a single mum years ago with a lot of hippy types and it was never a thing to be against vaccines.

Sleeping with your baby and carrying them around permanently and not washing a whole lot, but not vaccinating just wasn’t an option.

‘Compromise’ is tricky here though, and v unlikely - given OP’s gf’s views - to be evidence based. In the UK there’s a recommended schedule most parents follow, with (for some of the immunisations) school participation etc. Even setting aside the research, debating etc between OP and his GF, doing it differently would mean lots more to organise / take time off work for, and even pay for if his GF wants options (eg single jabs rather than MMR) not offered by the NHS.

A neighbour in London tried the ‘compromise’ route, got off track due to being busy with small DC etc, and her son and several in his class got mumps.

I missed a school jab for one of my DC accidentally recently, didn’t submit an online NHS consent form, and it’s been a PITA to re organise! That’s just one jab.

It was HPV I missed.

You sound like Dharma and Greg

It's not just the specific issue of to vaccinate or not, that's the incompatibility. It's her lack of faith in the medical system or even science that's the issue. This could come up with a whole bunch of other issues in the future you can't even predict now. It's also her entire lack of understanding and awareness of how disease and illness has ravaged poorer countries where modern medicine is not readily available. and only the introduction of vaccines has improved infant mortality (I say this having grown up in the developing world and having received all my vaccines as a child, being part of a generation that didn't succumb to small pox or polio like previous ones). Would she also travel to the developing world without taking vaccinations? What happens if your child grows up and travels there, never having had a vaccination or thinking them necessary?

This is a very fundamental incompatibility and as much as you love her now, do you really want your children to be raised by a woman who thinks she knows better than centuries of science, medicine and progress? And even if you win this argument somehow, it points to a personality that is prone to paranoia - and her need to closely control all aspects of life - in order to feel happy. This could spill into how she relates to you as well. And she's only 26. It will be a long, exhausting, difficult life for you over the next 50 years.

Also, do you really want her being the final decision maker on YOUR medical treatment if you're incapacitated and can't do it yourself?

@JurassicParkAha

It's not just the specific issue of to vaccinate or not, that's the incompatibility. It's her lack of faith in the medical system or even science that's the issue. This could come up with a whole bunch of other issues in the future you can't even predict now. It's also her entire lack of understanding and awareness of how disease and illness has ravaged poorer countries where modern medicine is not readily available. and only the introduction of vaccines has improved infant mortality (I say this having grown up in the developing world and having received all my vaccines as a child, being part of a generation that didn't succumb to small pox or polio like previous ones). Would she also travel to the developing world without taking vaccinations? What happens if your child grows up and travels there, never having had a vaccination or thinking them necessary?

This is a very fundamental incompatibility and as much as you love her now, do you really want your children to be raised by a woman who thinks she knows better than centuries of science, medicine and progress? And even if you win this argument somehow, it points to a personality that is prone to paranoia - and her need to closely control all aspects of life - in order to feel happy. This could spill into how she relates to you as well. And she's only 26. It will be a long, exhausting, difficult life for you over the next 50 years.

Also, do you really want her being the final decision maker on YOUR medical treatment if you're incapacitated and can't do it yourself?

That's a very good way to put it, and I never even considered it that way

"Also, do you really want her being the final decision maker on YOUR medical treatment if you're incapacitated and can't do it yourself?"

Never even considered myself in this situation, was more worried about her Son and any future Children.