My Girlfriend (F26) & I (M30) are at an impasse on compatibility (Vaccines, Life Choices, General view of the world)

[DeepThinking]

My Girlfriend (F26) of 11 months & I (M30) have reached an impasse on compatibility and we are unsure how to move forward, I feel "stuck', not sure if we are just not compatible or if these things can be worked through. It should be noted that she has a Son from a previous relationship. We seem to disagree on vaccinations and general "ways of the world". Turns out her Son isn't vaccinated and she would be hesitant to vaccinate any future Children either.

I should be clear and state that I fully respect her own judgement and decisions for her Son, I don't have a right to say otherwise and nor would I. Where it becomes an issue is our Future children, as I would of course have a say then.

What should I do ? I understand every situation is different but some perspective would be useful. Please please try and not say things like " your Girlfriend is nuts " as while I respect your passion, it's not helpful. If I didn't see some potential outside of these incompatibilities, I wouldn't have lasted this long. Thank you.

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I trust science, I trust the medical professionals, I think logically and do research on things I don't understand. I am also however opened-minded, which is why I guess I have not walked away immediately and I am entertaining a discussion on it despite my opposite views. She however seems to be a bit more of a hippy (I mean no disrespect by that term, I hope it doesn't offend! - just using it to help with context. It's actually something I as attracted to in the beginning ( being different and all that) ).

She's in to "Healthy Living" as she calls it. Little meats, more plant based foods. No sugar. Doesn't like chemicals or other manufactured additives ( makes her own soaps and doesn't buy off-the-shelf products ). Essential oils ( hey, they smell great, not gonna lie ). Just helping to paint a picture...

It's never come up before, which is why we have got this far in to things. Now that we are getting deeper and more committed, we have started to think about a future Family. I would love my own biological kids some day. We naturally drifted to the topic of vaccinations. She asked would I be getting the COVID-19 vaccine, and I said "No, not immediately, I'd want to see it go through trials and let it mature a little but eventually I would absolutely get it" -- to which she replied with " Oh, well I won't be getting it at all and by the way [sons name] is not vaccinated either". My stomach dropped to the floor.

She cites the (apparently typical ?) reasons against them as:

• Overloading the immune system

• Heavy Metal content

• A child's immune system is only forming and we need to let it form naturally

• Risks of side effects

• They are thriving without it

I asked her "If [sons name] ever fell and needed a tetanus shot, would you get it" - and she answered with "I don't know, probably not". Which I guess just concerns me even more. Tetanus can and does kill. It broke my heart to even think about her Son and our future Kids suffering in this way.

She appears to distrust the medical profession. Won't take antibiotics or other pills when prescribed, that kinda thing.

I guess I am worried about other things that might not have come up yet, if she feels this way about vaccines, what else could come up in the future ?

All of that said, I should mention, we are compatible in other ways. It wouldn't have got this far if we didn't have things in common and a genuine love for one another. She does think logically about a lot of other things, which is why when this came up I was completely floored and was unexpected.

She has mentioned on occasion that she's "willing to compromise" and maybe we can "spread them out (the vaccines) " which does indicate to me that she's open to change, but this fluctuates and she's not always consistent with these words.

I feel stuck because we've grown close, we practically live together, there is definite love there, we're compatible in other ways, her Son and I have grown close and am very fond of him. He's used to me too.

I'd really like to hear what you have to say (hard truths also) but I ask that you not put her down. She is my Girlfriend and despite our very opposing views on a contentious topic, I still love her and do believe she is well intended in her own way.

Thank you

[quote Fernie6491]@DeepThinking
"She appears to distrust the medical profession. Won't take antibiotics or other pills when prescribed, that kinda thing."

You absolutely DID mention antibiotics. I too had all three ilnesses as a child, first chicken pox, then three weeks later measles, during which I became delirious. Mumps as an adult. I wouldn't wish them on anyone. You need to show her the door.[/quote]
Humble pie.. you’re absolutely right. I guess what I meant was that I wasn’t taking about antibiotics here, I was talking about vaccinations. My bad.

If your going to have kids you have to be on the same page or it’ll just be a nightmare.

Dh disagree on abortion but it’s surprisingly easy to avoid that topic.

Anti-vaxxers/anti-big pharma are always one health scare away from Living in a tee pee in wales wearing paisley.

Don't worry OP, it is much better to be a so-called mansplaining windbag who believes in protecting kids from deadly diseases, than the alternative *read, you arent a mansplaining windbag at all.

I have a friend who is lovely in all way except she is anti vaxx and thinks covid is a conspiracy. It is really jarring, but in a friend I can deal with it. I dont think I could in a partner, especially if the safety of our kids was at stake.

You know you aren’t comparable, you have different world views which would clash spectacularly if you had children together.

Best to split now, for everyone’s sanity.

I think you either have to end the relationship, or make a decision not to have children.

It’s all good an adult making decisions about their own lives, but I couldn’t take any risks with my children - and it would be too easy for her to say “ok, I’ll let our child be vaccinated” and then to go back on it when the child was born.

You can have a successful relationship with someone whose views differ from yours (DH and I are at either end of the political scale!) but when those views impact on others (a child), I don’t think it is fair to make that person a battle to be won.

@CrazyToast

Don't worry OP, it is much better to be a so-called mansplaining windbag who believes in protecting kids from deadly diseases, than the alternative *read, you arent a mansplaining windbag at all.

I have a friend who is lovely in all way except she is anti vaxx and thinks covid is a conspiracy. It is really jarring, but in a friend I can deal with it. I dont think I could in a partner, especially if the safety of our kids was at stake.

@CrazyToast Thank you ! I guess I was second-guessing myself after I read the comment, I’m worried that it came across that way when that wasn’t my intention at all.

[quote Onjnmoeiejducwoapy]@Coyoacan lol well I suppose you’ve helped prove OP’s point really, despite everything[/quote]
Yes exactly - hilarious isn't it! Of course that poster's one grandchild and a few kids she knows, is comparable to the vast numbers of children and adults studied scientifically worldwide. I guess the many deaths worldwide in unvaccinated people are just a figment of the imagination. No wonder anti vaxxers get such people to believe virtually anything. Good grief.

OP, refusing prescribed antibiotics in certain circumstances is even more dangerous than refusing vaccinations. I know someone who contracted sepsis. Without antibiotics they would be dead now. Incidentally with sepsis, the most common groups of people who contract it include babies under 3 months and also children who have not been vaccinated for the two bacteria that most commonly cause sepsis.

I suppose it depends if you think she can change or not. I'm guessing - though I could be wrong - that she doesn't have much education and you do. If you think she is likely to undertake some education that enhances her critical thinking skills maybe it will be OK. Otherwise you are fundamentally too different even if she is willing to concede the vaccination thing. Something else will always come up.

You may never agree on everything with a partner, but some things are fundamental. To me, not believing in science is one of them. I can tolerate friends using 'alternative medicines' but I couldn't share my life with someone like that.

I couldn't live with someone religious either (sorry if that offends anyone) , for example or with someone whose political views were totally opposed to mine.

Some things will either cause strife or I would find hard to respect.

I don't think your relationship will succeed beyond the honeymoon period (where faults and differences can seem lovable!)

It would be a deal breaker for me I'm afraid. But then as you can probably see from my name, I have a science and maths background and although I appreciate people having doubts, there is plenty of research available to show that there is absolutely no evidence to show for example that giving children different vaccines at once does them any harm and there is no evidence that spreading them out has any positive effect, it just leaves them unprotected for longer. It's not the views on vaccines that bother me, its believing shit on facebook instead of hard evidence in peer reviewed studies, and what that could be applied to in the future (5G? Flat earth).

Get her to have a read of this www.docbastard.net/2019/04/vaccine-mythbusting.html?m=1 and see if she will discuss it after. If she is willing to actually discuss it properly then I'd think maybe I could get past it, but if she comes up with some 'doctors are paid by big pharma to say this' bullshit then I think I'd draw the line there because our approaches would be too different to ever find a common one.

Do you know that 1 in 15 children who catch measles have life long complications etc hearing issues? Her child is only thriving due to not having caught it...which is due to herd immunity...which is her relying on other people getting vaccinated. Which to me is actually pretty selfish

Did her parents have her vaccinated and is she thriving? I'd be concerned that her mistrust in things could transfer to other affairs that affect life. If she is willing to believe some conspiracy theories around vaccination, she is likely to believe other conspiracy theories also.
She is lucky that her son is unlikely to catch some diseases precisely because most other people have been vaccinated. She may have a lack of knowledge about how immune systems work, you have to come into contact with a disease to develop immunity, it doesn't occur naturally, and there's plenty of good quality evidence that says the risk to your health of having the diseases is greater than the risk of vaccines. My mother didn't vaccinate my younger brother for whooping cough, and I remember how sick he was as a young child with it, the whoop being the desperate sharp intake of they have to take after constant coughing has preventer them from breathing effectively. I'd never want a child of mine to suffer like that.
If she has so much mistrust, would she not seek help for a sick child?
Maybe it's worth asking her if she has bad personal memories around medical matters that have clouded her reasoning? Could help to understand where she is coming from.

Sorry for typos. Sharp intake of breath

Science background here so absolutely this would be a deal breaker for me. It's not even about vaccinations for future kids etc, it's really around belief systems, how you think, values, etc for me. However - that's me - and I can understand that for some, if she's amenable to compromise, this could be an area of compromise. So I guess you need to figure out which it is for you.
What are the extent of her beliefs? Is she worried about 5g? Where does she get her news from? Is it just vaccines or does it extend beyond that?

At some point you have to decide what you want from a relationship.

If it's just fun, and you get on well, these things don't really matter.

If you're at the stage where you want to commit, build a life together and have children, then stuff like this is absolutely crucial.

Raising a family, building your lives together is bloody hard work, and you have to at least start by setting off in the same direction. If you know that you're going to disagree on something so fundamental, then it's going to be an uphill battle. You can't compromise on this one.

I know someone like your gf. She believes every conspiracy theory she reads about. She is also irrational, and appears to be out of touch with reality a lot of the time.

I think you should nd the relationship, especially because there is a child who is becoming attached to you.

You said you are open minded and do research on things you don't understand. I wonder if you have researched some of the pharmaceutical companies and the millions of pounds fines they've been given. Some people have died or have been harmed by these pharmaceutical products.It is not a conspiracy theory, it is a fact backed up by hard evidence.

You're not going to get anywhere beating her over the head with various articles or insisting that all pharmaceuticals are safe, because some are not. She's already said she would possibly compromise. Why don't you meet her half way and try to understand what her concerns actually are?

www.drugwatch.com/manufacturers/pfizer/

I’m afraid I don’t respect fools who prioritise their own stupidity over their child’s safety.

Her right to be ignorant is more precious to her than her child’s life.

These people are negligent parents.

Ophelia - people who have a basic grasp of science do not make the mistake of pretending no harm has ever come from a pharmaceutical product. The whole point of evidence-based medicine is that changes are made as further evidence comes to light. Unlike anti-vaxxers, supporters of science are open to challenge and change readily in line with new developments.

My DH can be like this, I find it an extremely annoying and unattractive quality in a life partner but I have learned to manage him over the years

Thankfully he did eventually agree to vaccinate our DS but if he hadn't, I would have gone ahead and done it anyway. His bloody mindedness is trumped by the need to ensure my son's safety

trixie I don't need some patronising lecture thanks.

For me there's a big difference between getting a Covid vaccine and getting a tetanus shot. I would and have protected my child with all the vaccinations up to age of 4 aside things like the flu spray. What is important to you?

I'm sorry OP, but I see this as a difference in fundamental values.

Once you have children you have a duty to make yourself fully informed of facts needed to keep them safe. One of those things is vaccinations. Making a reasoned risk assessment of the available actions.

The evidence debunking her beliefs is readily available and commonly accepted as life saving. Unfortunately, due to the number of people currently choosing not to vaccinate, there is going to be a re-emergence of these unecessary childhood deaths.

I personally couldn't buy in to, or allow myself to have children with someone who wasn't absolutely on board with children receiving Well tested, life saving vaccinations. Sorry.

Does she take the child for regular health checkups?

Dentist, eye exam, hearing test?

I'd be concerned that someone like that would refuse to take a seriously ill child to the doctor.

I had an acquaintance that didn't believe in medicine and used mostly herbs and prayer. Her 12 year old son died from something very treatable. Sadly, this was not in a western country and not taking people to the hospital until they are practically dead is fairly common there.

Somebody not vaccinating their child would be a deal breaker for me. I would not have married my husband if he felt differently. That’s a hard boundary for me. I feel it tells me something fundamental about that person’s common sense, scientific judgement, reasoning, intellectual ability. It would put me off them and the relationship would be over immediately. I had mumps when I was young and it led to infertility as the disease meant my tubes became blocked. I’m not going to go into my story but it makes me incredibly angry that years of heartache could have been avoided. Measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox, polio, tetanus, these things have a vaccine for a reason. They kill or maim.

@Ophelia2020 I mean... 😂😂😂