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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

unmarried stay @home mum separation advice please

277 replies

fridaysforfuturemum · 29/10/2020 22:31

My partner asked for a separation in January.
We are joint owners of our home and have been living in a toxic atmosphere since then. We have two teenagers at High school. We're not married and I know I have no legal rights on anything but half the house. It was a joint agreement that I leave my job to be a stay@home mum. My partner now says it was my decision and legally he does not have to give me equal share of the savings etc..
I have no money as we just had a joint account. I really want to stay in my home with my kids. (they will stay with me one week, then him the next...)
The solicitors I spoke to were not interested in helping me because they said I was a cohabitee and had no rights. Appeal to his better nature was their top tip!
Can anyone suggest what kind of professional would be able to help me put a financial settlement proposal together that is fair and equal,takes into account what I have contributed to our family over the last 16 years and splits everything 50/50?
I'm saying to him it's about doing the right thing and what's morally right rather than what I'm legally entitled to. I asked him to treat me as if we have been married. We have been together 26 years :(
I've been a trusting fool like so many other women before me...

OP posts:
PegasusReturns · 30/10/2020 16:26

I second @WellQualifiedToRepresentTheLBC well articulated response.

The sooner you start looking forward the better.

How much is the house worth and how much equity is there? Housing is your biggest immediate challenge. If your partner is up for buying you out this might be the quickest way of laying your hands on funds to start a new life.

Seenobody · 30/10/2020 16:49

Re the warning that women should get married, can I point out that it does depend on each couple’s circumstances. If the woman is the higher earner or main earner, she may be worse off.

In my profession, women generally return to work full-time and continue with their career.

I was worse off when I divorced as exh didn’t work (own choice, not a SAHD) but made a small living cash in hand. After divorce, he didn’t see the children and he pays £7 a week for two dc out of his benefits.

PegasusReturns · 30/10/2020 17:02

@Seenobody fair point but I thinks it’s clear that the advice is directed at women who chose to put themselves in a vulnerable position by giving up work

Brown76 · 30/10/2020 17:42

Hypothetically, could a woman in this situation refuse 50/50? And say that they’ll either have the children full time with maintenance or have the other parent do this while they move out and have their children EOW. Either of those arrangements would be financially easier for women in situations like the OP and from what posters are saying, better for the children, than 50/50.

category12 · 30/10/2020 18:03

Oh dear, you're really fucked, unless he has a better nature.

If you're going to be sharing the dc's care 50/50, he won't pay child support. So you have your share of the proceeds from the house and that's it. Crap, I'm sorry. Flowers

Ohalrightthen · 30/10/2020 18:14

@Brown76

Hypothetically, could a woman in this situation refuse 50/50? And say that they’ll either have the children full time with maintenance or have the other parent do this while they move out and have their children EOW. Either of those arrangements would be financially easier for women in situations like the OP and from what posters are saying, better for the children, than 50/50.
She could, but it would very clearly tell her kids that she doesn't give a fuck about getting to spend time with them unless she's benefitting financially.
TitianaTitsling · 30/10/2020 18:23

How old are the kids if teens? Do they still need child care?

Giningit · 30/10/2020 18:26

@fridaysforfuturemum

I am filling in a job application at this moment! In reply to 'Ohalright then.'..I did go back to work twice but the second time I reseigned because some of the childcare collapsed, my son was unhappy and we spent a lot of time argueing over who did what chores. it was stressful. We decided to prioritise the kids stability and happiness and have more time for the family at the week-end instead of catching up on housework.(well aware we were lucky to have this choice} Obv this meant we had little spare money but our kids up to now have had the childhood we talked about and hoped for. As for now, I'm consciencious, I worked hard and treated being at home as my 'job' . There's always the dog to walk, housework to do, shopping, cleaning, putting away, making appointments, organising family stuff, teaching kids how to cook, mend stuff, clear up after themselves, get a tradesperson to fix shower, check roof, sort out stuff for charity shop etc... Sorry to state the obvious I just feel quite defensive at the moment because I feel I did my best and like I said it was a joint decision and there were many benefits for him that are now forgotten.I personally, just couldn't manage that as many women do, plus work. I think we probably would of separated a long time ago if I had been a working mother!
As you yourself have mentioned plenty of mums do the “mum work” and have jobs. I worked fulltime as a single mum and still did all those chores you mentioned (minus the dog). I had always worked full time so when my relationship broke down, having a stable income was my one saving grace! What’s happened, happened. No point in dwelling on the past, time to move on and plan ahead.
Giningit · 30/10/2020 18:33

@Whitehorsewaves

is your husband a very high earner?

She's not married, that's kind of the point of the whole thread. She has no recourse to apply to stay in the house. She's already been told this by her solicitor.

In fairness, I wasn’t married either, however the solicitor said one of my options would be to stay in the house until the kids were adults. However Ex would still have a say in what happened to the house, which I didn’t want so bought him out!
doireallyneedaname · 30/10/2020 20:12

Sorry, I have no advice but solidarity is with you. For everyone else, if I may - what exactly would be happening now if they WERE married?

Winterterrace · 30/10/2020 20:21

You need to be the resident parent.

Winterterrace · 30/10/2020 20:26

DoIReallyNeedAName a wife in this situation could expect interim spousal support until a divorce followed by a period of spousal support after the divorce plus substantial child support (better than the CMS number) + a greater % of the equity in the house to reflect greater need and lower earning potential + at least half of any savings + a % of the earner’s pension.

VodselForDinner · 30/10/2020 20:29

@doireallyneedaname

Sorry, I have no advice but solidarity is with you. For everyone else, if I may - what exactly would be happening now if they WERE married?
All those savings that he has that the OP doesn’t have access to would be classed as marital assets, and split between them.

If he had a pension, that may also be split.

If he’s a very high earner, the OP may receive spousal maintenance for a time until she’s able to return to full time work (albeit that would be unlikely given they don’t have small kids).

TitianaTitsling · 30/10/2020 23:15

Would she get spousal maintenance? Given that if the kids are teens she could have had at least 10 years of working if she'd chosen?

VodselForDinner · 30/10/2020 23:49

@TitianaTitsling

Would she get spousal maintenance? Given that if the kids are teens she could have had at least 10 years of working if she'd chosen?
I think it’s unlikely she’d get anything substantial or long-term but it does depend on the situation.

My high-earning friend had to pay her husband spousal maintenance when they divorced, despite not having dependent children. He never worked and spent his time starting degrees to embark on a career, only to abandon them after a year. Then he’d be unemployed for a year, refuse to work, and she’d then agree to fund another degree just to have him do something.
Then the cycle started again.

The judge awarded him maintenance at an eye watering level for four years- to complete the degree he was doing at the time and to find related work. Judge’s theory was basically “if you’ve been happy to fund his lifestyle for the last ten years, you can keep it up because he can’t do it himself without formal education”.
Angry

While he never finished the degree, he did marry his next sucker wife after two years so my friend was able to stop the maintenance then.

S00LA · 31/10/2020 09:48

@TitianaTitsling

Would she get spousal maintenance? Given that if the kids are teens she could have had at least 10 years of working if she'd chosen?
Have you ever tried to get a well paid interesting and rewarding job that fits around schools hours and allows time off for inset days and child sickness ?

And do ALL the housework and wifework on top of that ?

OP has already explained that. She’s not been sitting at home painting her nails for the last 16 years.

Ohalrightthen · 31/10/2020 10:05

@S00LA holding out for a well paid, interesting and rewarding job is a luxury few people can afford. TBH I'd be pretty fucked off if my partner was sitting around at home doing nowt while our teens were at school. Especiall if the argument for it was thay she couldnt cope with work and running the house. I and pretty much every woman i know does everything OP lists and a 40hr jobif , she really couldnt cope with that, she needs to seek help, whether it's for mental health issues or an executive function disorder or something else.

pippiphooray1 · 31/10/2020 10:39

@fridaysforfuturemum don't mean to put the boot in, but if he asked for separation in January, why has it taken you until now to look for work? Covid wasn't an issue then, and you would have been already in a much better place.

I agree with other posters about being a very good housewife being an amelioration towards working - but it is ridiculous in this day and age. It was a luxury you actually couldn't afford, and you are paying for it now. But hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Sadly, the lawyers you saw are correct. They would have taken your money to fight your corner otherwise. They know you are on a hiding to nothing.

Will you be able to live on the proceeds of half the house and some UC? As you know, no maintenance for the DCs if its 50/50, so this will literally be all your money in the world. Is it doable?

MatildaonaWaltzer · 31/10/2020 10:52

@Whitehorsewaves why don’t you read schedule A before telling me to read the thread? Marriage not pertinent for that

PrawnofthePatriarchy · 31/10/2020 11:17

Have you ever tried to get a well paid interesting and rewarding job that fits around schools hours and allows time off for inset days and child sickness ?

Who said any of us were entitled to work that's well paid or interesting? Many - maybe most - people have jobs that are neither.

I managed to get a job that was all those things but I did so by training to do something I could earn a living with from home. I set up a tiny company and kept us for the next decade. But I was lucky to have the skills and the space.

And do ALL the housework and wifework on top of that ?

I paid a cleaner (who got far more done in half the time so very cost effective) and did the rest as well as I could in the time available, like other lone parents.

S00LA · 31/10/2020 11:20

@Ohalrightthen I don’t see how implying the OP is lazy or has mental health issues is going to help her now. She did what she thought was best at the time.

She has been incredibly stupid and taken huge risks for herself and her children but she knows that now. She needs advice on how to move forward from here.

Pointing out how much better, smarter and more hard working you are than her Hmm isn’t very kind.

Farahilda · 31/10/2020 11:26

@TitianaTitsling

Would she get spousal maintenance? Given that if the kids are teens she could have had at least 10 years of working if she'd chosen?
If a marriage broke up, then the spousal maintenance would look at the circumstances at the time of the split, not hypothetical ones based on one/both spouses making totally different choices a decade earlier.

That said, spousal maintenance is now rarely awarded, other than for a short period to help someone who has left the workforce time to retrain (or finish existing training/education) and have a bit of time to job hunt.

Holyrivolli · 31/10/2020 12:54

What I don’t understand if why the OP has buried her head in the sand for the last 10 months. A 2 min google search would tell her she’s entitled to nothing except a share of joint assets. She can spend lots of time/ effort pulling together a financial proposal which her ex can just dump in the bin. He has given no indication that he’ll give you more money so not sure why she is wasting her time.

She needs to get a job and learn to support herself. If the kids are teenagers and they are going to go for 50/50 custody then she has plenty of time and ability to earn money. She may not want to but there are no other options.

Ohalrightthen · 31/10/2020 13:05

[quote S00LA]@Ohalrightthen I don’t see how implying the OP is lazy or has mental health issues is going to help her now. She did what she thought was best at the time.

She has been incredibly stupid and taken huge risks for herself and her children but she knows that now. She needs advice on how to move forward from here.

Pointing out how much better, smarter and more hard working you are than her Hmm isn’t very kind.[/quote]
She said herself she couldn't cope with working and running the house - it's very common for people to do both those things, so if she's really not capable of it there's probably a reason and she should seek help to deal with it!

I'm not implying that she's lazy or stupid, I'm saying that if this is genuinely beyond her she could probably do with investigating that further and getting some proper support in place, because soon she isn't going to have a choice.

I'd be interested to hear why they never got married though.

IsayIsayBoy · 31/10/2020 13:21

Ohalrightthen

Harsh!