unmarried stay @home mum separation advice please

[fridaysforfuturemum]

My partner asked for a separation in January.
We are joint owners of our home and have been living in a toxic atmosphere since then. We have two teenagers at High school. We're not married and I know I have no legal rights on anything but half the house. It was a joint agreement that I leave my job to be a stay@home mum. My partner now says it was my decision and legally he does not have to give me equal share of the savings etc..
I have no money as we just had a joint account. I really want to stay in my home with my kids. (they will stay with me one week, then him the next...)
The solicitors I spoke to were not interested in helping me because they said I was a cohabitee and had no rights. Appeal to his better nature was their top tip!
Can anyone suggest what kind of professional would be able to help me put a financial settlement proposal together that is fair and equal,takes into account what I have contributed to our family over the last 16 years and splits everything 50/50?
I'm saying to him it's about doing the right thing and what's morally right rather than what I'm legally entitled to. I asked him to treat me as if we have been married. We have been together 26 years :(
I've been a trusting fool like so many other women before me...

Blimey OP those are all pretty bad reasons for not getting married. Which I am sure you get now, but I hope anyone reading who might feel similarly takes note.

In respect of keeping going, by all means keep trying to persuade him on the grounds of fairness. Nothing wrong with making your case, if you think he'll be amenable. Please don't do anything daft though, and by that I mean try and get a court order on the basis of what you think would be equitable when the law is so clearly not on your side. Don't throw money at a lost cause.

I think you've been very dignified in your response @fridaysforfuturemum
Also I have to back you up when you say that given our various backgrounds and experiences, nobody ever knows what they would have done in your shoes, with that specific partner and the experiences you had growing up.
When I look back on some of the choices I made, it's clear that, although they weren't the best, they were better than what I was dealing with at the time.
I think life is a bit like that.
And of course, wisdom comes with age.
I'd be happy to read through any job applications if you would like my email address via DM. I teach English.

I think you've been very dignified in your response @fridaysforfuturemum
Also I have to back you up when you say that given our various backgrounds and experiences, nobody ever knows what they would have done in your shoes, with that specific partner and the experiences you had growing up.
When I look back on some of the choices I made, it's clear that, although they weren't the best, they were better than what I was dealing with at that time.
I think life is a bit like that.
And of course, wisdom comes with age.
I'd be happy to read through any job applications if you would like my email address via DM. I teach English.

Thank-you paintypot and others who have offered help. That's so kind.
I am new to Mum's net and using a computer in general so not sure what to do when people private message you....
Please no more posts about not being married, and my stupidity in not doing it. Don't worry, my daughter will not make the same mistake and I am warning those I know who are not married. I still think it comes down to two reasonable, decent adults appreciating that both did what was best for their kids and contributed equally in different ways. Split your stuff fairly and move on. A non confrontational, non adversarial approach from solicitors would be much more beneficial for the children and bruised parents in this sand situation. I have found a great site called Only Mums &Only Dads and Resolution who have family lawyers who have signed up to a code of conduct which focuses on this way of working with clients.
I'm just trying to focus on the present, boosting my self esteem, finding a job and extricating myself from my ex financially etc...I need to stop punishing myself for not getting married and giving up my job, I did it for our children and it was the right decision at the time. I need to move forward now.
I have been living in lockdown with a man who is a good man but is desperate to leave and start a new life and the last 9 months have been extremely difficult emotionally for me. I was very distraught, angry, confused and depressed for a long time but now I have accepted the situation. I just have to avoid hearing conversations where they excitedly talk about their new room in their Dad's house and find a way to cope with not seeing them for a whole week when it's his turn to have them.... and being on my own. I have never lived on my own before.
All I want is to see a professional who can help me act hyperthetically work out what I would have been entitled to if we had been married for 26 years with kids and start from that baseline.
I KNOW THIS IS NOT A LEGAL STANDPOINT but it would be useful for me as I have no head for figures and need help putting a proposal together. As I have rejected my ex's offers so far, on the basis that they are heavily biased in his favour, he has asked me to put forward a reasonable proposal and this is where the new solicitor will hopefully be able to help me.
Is anyone a solicitor? Any advice on any key points I should discuss?
Please don't post if you're about to say anything negative, I came on Mumsnet for support and positive advice. Time is short and it dosen't help if I get down. Thanks very much everyone :)

But you can’t get that because legally you’re not entitled to it and that’s what a solicitor will tell you.

What is he offering you OP? I would strongly consider accepting it if it's at all reasonable.

It would be terrible if you rejected it then got less having incurred huge solicitor costs.

You’re literally relying on his goodwill.

If he has made you any offer that is better then half the house you should take it. Because if you piss him off or go to court that’s all you’ll get

You really really need to take on board that legally all you’re entitled to is half the house and anything more is a bonus.

I'm afraid I agree that you should take whatever it is he is offering. You are not entitled to anything. I'm sorry OP!
Try and look up if you're entitled to benefits. He knew what he was doing don't be fooled.

People are giving advice based on their knowledge and experience. You absolutely need to face facts. A solicitor is a must and at least you will know where you stand legally. SAHMs need the protection of marriage unless wealthy in their own right.

What is he offering you OP? I’d seriously consider that. Is it anything over and above half the equity and the correct amount of child maintenance? You need to check how much child maintenance you are entitled to, don’t rely on him telling you. Ask a friend to help if you’re not sure, but can all be done online.

@Meowza74

What is he offering you OP? I would strongly consider accepting it if it's at all reasonable.

It would be terrible if you rejected it then got less having incurred huge solicitor costs.

Took the words out of my mouth!

It's good that you are telling other people around you about your experiences OP.

If you've decided on this course of action, can you not ask your solicitor what the situation would likely be if you were married? It's a bit difficult because there isn't a set formula like 12 years SAH, 61% of all assets, 13 years 62% etc. It takes into account both parties housing needs as well. Even those posters who are familiar with this area of law aren't going to be able to give you anything more specific than try 50/50 or whatever.

@LilyWater

Sorry OP about your situation, perhaps try citizen's advice bureau?

Also, please do start warning other women - too many people still ignorantly rabbit on about marriage being "just a piece of paper" and love keeping themselves in denial when others try to warn them.

As I'm sure you're now painfully aware, one of the very purposes of marriage is to help give you exactly what you're seeking. Women who want real commitment and/or families need to dump men at dating stage who don't believe in marriage and stop throwing theirs and their future children's legal rights in the bin by staying with said men.

Is the relationship definitely not salvageable OP?

This is blunt advice that only applies to stay at home mothers or lower earners. I'm not married to DP, we own our house jointly and we both earn a similar amount. If we split then I won't need to support him, and he won't need to support me. I wouldn't have had DS under any other circumstances.

You’ve already sought legal advice and been told where you stand. Why spend money you don’t have on another lawyer who’ll tell you the same thing?

It. Doesn’t. Matter. What. You’d. Have. Got. If. You. Were. Married.

He’s making you offers. You’re rejecting them knowing that bar half the house it’s entirely up to him what to decide to give you.

You’re banging your head against a brick wall OP. You say you’ve accepted it but you’re wasting time on a fantasy when you should be listening to the advice people have given up their time to give you - often based on their own lived experience.

Piss your ex off by being unreasonable and you’ll find any generosity quickly disappears. You’ve had 9 months to get your head in the game and I expect his patience is running dry.

Very sorry to read about your situation.

I helped a friend in a similar type of situation a few years ago. Together 20 years, house in joint names, joint bank account 1 child aged 9. She had worked full time until their child born, part time since then. Partner had the higher paying job. She got half the value of the house after mortgage deducted (partner bought her out), split of the joint account & savings - as advised by solicitor, she was not entitled to the savings in partners name but he did split & she kept a small amount in her name. She kept her car & negotiated an amount for furnishings left in the home. There was enough to buy a small 2 bed property outright. She did not get anything from his pensions - the solicitor did ask his but he was not prepared or required to give anything from his pot. They agreed an amount for child maintenance which was written into a contract thats higher than the calculator amount.

My friend was told it would be a costly legal battle with little prospect of a positive outcome to claim anymore than half the house & half the joint account despite the fact she was earning less due to childcare. This is not taken into account when not married.

He's already offered you more than half the house, you turned it down, and you're engaging a solicitor?!

I'm sorry. But you're on a hiding to nothing. You have to accept that what you would have got if you were married means NOTHING. Because any solicitor, any court, will say that if the two of you had wanted to get married, you would have got married, so you have effectively actively chosen not to be. You might as well be claiming to be entitled to money because in an alternate universe you could have been Taylor Swift. He will retain his own solicitor if you push this and that solicitor will 100% tell him that he owes you fuck all other than half the house and maintenance.

There is no formula for financial settlement in case of divorce, although 50/50 is common unless there are particularly unusual circumstances or very young children and one parent needs more resources as the primary carer.

Financial support for the child is of course separate.

What has your partner offered you? Anything over the 50% equity in the house that you’re entitled to by virtue of your legal ownership should be taken as a win.

You haven’t said why your partner has left, but I’d be thinking OW. Once that is out he’ll stop playing fair and the toxicity your describe will ramp up.

Oh and I’m a lawyer, although full disclosure I’ve not practiced family law since the beginning of my career twenty years ago, but I promise you things have not changed.

You risk wasting money on engaging solicitors. If you really want to put forward a counter proposal you can figure that out yourself but to reiterate if he’s offered more that you’re entitled to you’re on a hiding to nothing.

Because if you piss him off or go to court that’s all you’ll get

Except of course you’ll get much less by the time you’ve deducted your solicitors fees.

@PegasusReturns

Because if you piss him off or go to court that’s all you’ll get

Except of course you’ll get much less by the time you’ve deducted your solicitors fees.

True.

What has he offered op, in relation to what you expect your expenses will be?

I would be wary of instructing solicitors. The expenses will rack up and you don't have any recourse to the law, just his generosity

What you would have been entitled to if you were married is completely irrelevant here. You're not married. Legally, you are (and always have been) two single people. He doesn't have to give you anything.

Going to a solicitor is a total waste of time, money and energy here. People aren't saying that to be harsh - it's just the truth. Your DP is being very generous offering you anything - if I were you, I'd take his best offer and accept that you're incredibly lucky to be offered anything at all.

I’m sorry you are in this situation. Like others I do not recommend paying solicitors for the same advice. For talking points I would raise spousal maintenance, you are not entitled to this as others have said but it could be used as some form of calculator for your discussions and if you can persuade him to agree to provide this even for the years you put your career on hold or until your retirement age it may help with the equity agreement for your home or provide income outside of child maintenance, say £100 per week for x years.

@FortunesFave

Vanilla you sound very patronising. "Protect yourselves" indeed!

How? Are women to MAKE a man marry them? What if he's promised but keeps backing out? I've seen it on here time and time again. And some pregnancies are accidental...and then the man continues to live with the woman and STILL refuses marriage.

That shouldn't be allowed. If a woman is good enough to live with and raise your child, then she's good enough to receive financial help if you split.

That's why DeFacto laws need to be brought in.

You speak as if women are helpless things. How do you think women who are married got married? There are all kinds of non committal men out there but they chose the men who showed they were serious about marriage by actually proposing and left any men when proposals didn't materialise in the timeframe they wanted. If you're serious about marriage and its associated legal commitments, yet you let a man string you along as if he's the only man on earth, then you've only got yourself to blame. You've read how flippant the OP herself was about marriage - no one else is to blame for that.

We're blessed to have virtually 100% literacy in this country and have almost universal access to the internet, citizen's advice bureau and other in-person info sources. Other people have even taken the time and effort to spell out clearly the legal differences between cohabitation and marriage for the benefit of others which I can access within 10 seconds via one of the first results on Google. What else do people want??

It has been the norm for many centuries for men to marry and commit to women before moving in and having kids with them. This only changed relatively very recently in the West (it's still the norm in many other countries). Women are adults and need to take responsibility themselves and STOP giving men all these marriage benefits without the marriage itself. Simple. No man (or woman) should be forced into marriage and no need for defacto laws when we have existing ones doing what we need. Part of being an adult is recognising that all actions have consequences and if she decides to remain unmarried then the woman herself has decided to spurn the very law designed to protect her and her children and she needs to take responsibility for that.

@TinyVictories

Morally I agree with you OP, but if he agreed with you on the value if your contribution he would have already offered to share those things. It sounds like he's already rewritten it in his mind that 'you' chose to stay home and live off his wage, so if anything you owe him for all your support. From what I've observed I don't think this is uncommon. I feel you'll just be wasting time and energy better spent on moving forward. If you really want to do it, I'd write down all your points and arguments about the morals of the situation and give it one go. Then let it go. I really don't think he sounds like he's going to listen let alone change his stance on this.

Agree.

If he wanted to treat her as a wife, he would have proposed to her in the first place and married her all those years ago. She is unfortunately going to find that the very reason why he never married her was to ensure this very situation i.e. if they ever broke up she would only be entitled to half the house and nothing else from him. The vast majority of men who don't propose are doing so as an insurance policy to 'protect' themselves financially to limit what they should be legally liable for in regards to their "partner" and any children. Women need to stop being naive and wise up to this. I'm glad OP has made this thread (which as you say is not an uncommon situation) which will hopefully serve as a warning to other women to take marriage seriously, which women had actually always done until relatively recently.